I was asked to change a light fitting by a friend, and when I removed the ceiling rose, I was very surprised to find that the rose only contained a switched live and a neutral (and Earth).

I thought normally the rose was were the permanent live went, from room to room, and the permanent live was taken down to the switch and switched live came back. Has that changed?

The house is less than five years old, and built as part of a development of about thirty houses.

Exactly the same as in my house.

Exactly the same as in my house.

So where is the permanent live?

Oops.

I read the original post wrong as my house also has what you expected.

Your friend's house has the permanent live in the switches with the return in the rose via the bulb.

Possibility is that light fitting has space for only earth+ neutral and switched live ,having been changed from a ceiling rose type to a combined light fitting and that the ring wiring is in the floor space with the three other wires extended to the light fitting.

Most new builds seem to be live at the switch.

I think as the traditional pendant has been abandoned it allows better for different fittings.

Can make the wall back boxes very tight if they skimp on the depth.

There are various ways of wiring light fittings, it might be the live is in a terminal box above the ceiling, and the cable you see is spurred off of it, or the live "ring" goes from switch to switch. The latter is common as it reduces the material costs (although possibly increases the labour costs); I prefer the former as it makes life easier if you want to move/replace the light fitting a few years later.

 

I used to face the "everything crammed into the light rose" method at work, and it was a complete PITA when I had to move/remove some of the lights due to a room layout change.

GG- with rings abounding, it sounds logical to have light circuits done as a ring. Then there's the problem you mention, as well as my problem in #5. My place is wired as a light ring and the first problem I had fitting decent lighting in the kitchen ( set up to have one 100W lamp) in the centre with lots of nooks and crannies that needed lit( for safety reasons), but were always in shadow .This was way back before part P, and expert advice then was to put the rose in the floor space and run the switch pair + earth ( and in a lot of cases it was missing -so much for pro work) to the light fitting.

When I wired my place - just before the Part P rubbish came out ( honest!! :-p); I wired all the lighting in two rings, with the rats nest above the ceiling and only the Live + switch wires to the switch, and the switch + Neutral to the light (plus earth of course).

 

It used more cable, but I located the junction boxes for the downstairs lights in the space under the landing floorboards, so I didnt have to move furniture/lift carpets if I needed to move the lights; even then, I left a metre loop of spare cable on each, for minor repairs or repositioning.

GG sounds just like how a bloke who's more used to solving /fixing problems would do it.

GG sounds just like how a bloke who's more used to solving /fixing problems would do it.

 

Plan ahead; I got very grumpy at work last year, trying to replace some lights and finding they had only left 1" of slack to play with. I had to cut a chunk out of the ceiling (no way to get to it from above), wire it to a junction box with a spur for the new light,, push the box into the roofspace and fit a patch over the hole for each light.

All because the new 6' fittings had the terminal blocks in a slightly different position.

likewise my kitchen lights- where there's at least 18" of cable inside floor space. it lets me drop the unit down and hold it on a string for disconnection ( after mains etc is off- I'm qualified to work on 650 VAC/DC disconnections etc, but , and have had safety training on 100V AC  /4500V AC and still remember belts from valve stuff that had to faulted live, never really liked 240 mains belts).

I've had an antique valve blast me, left entry and exit scars on my hand for over 10 years. 240V? My skin is so dry I have held mains a few times and never felt it (and 600V once), high skin resistance and rubber soled shoes saved me!!!

Google Clansman RT353. 50 W RF at low VHF, but get fingers near the anode circuits and there was a sell of FRIED finger. I've still got the scars , many years on. 800V on final anode-not to be sniffed at . ( or even got near ,at .25 A ). problem is that DC is so nasty- I can vouch for that after faulting on live valve 350 kit.

Google Clansman RT353. 50 W RF at low VHF, but get fingers near the anode circuits and there was a sell of FRIED finger. I've still got the scars , many years on. 800V on final anode-not to be sniffed at . ( or even got near ,at .25 A ). problem is that DC is so nasty- I can vouch for that after faulting on live valve 350 kit.

 

1938 Cossor Oscilloscope from what was then the RRE Malvern. I had been asked to check it out and fix an intermitent issue prior to it going on display at a museum.. The shock fixed the issue, it worked perfectly afterwards!!

Hager sockets/switches?

 

If so the ones we have have the live in the switch (Although that might not be the same in the place you refer to).

 

TBH, if you're not certain, you probably shouldn't touch it applies.

1938 Cossor Oscilloscope from what was then the RRE Malvern. I had been asked to check it out and fix an intermitent issue prior to it going on display at a museum.. The shock fixed the issue, it worked perfectly afterwards!!

To you, or kit?

To you, or kit?

 

If I thought a shock might fix me I would stick my hands in a socket right now; feeling really crap today, and the trend has been downhill over a couple of months. I got the shakes and had to lie down after unwrapping a new step ladder and bolting the foot-brace on. Stupid NHS wont fund the treatment that will make me better - as long as it doesnt look like I am going to die this week, and even then they would probably try to fob me off with something ineffective (and dangerous), because it is cheap (like last time).

GG - know how you feel - I'm in the bracket of old codger. If I was 64, then I'd get mobility, but as I'm 69 - I've got to crawl/limp through DWP carpets and ground laid hoops, to get some help to stay mobile. I'm thinking I should crawl up some steps, fall off and have  an accident that needed emergency attendance, just to say that I need to have help around 24/7.

If I felt 69 I would probably feel better than I do right now - at age 51.

 

I cancelled my pension contributions in 2009 because I considered it unlikely I would be around to collect it; at the time it looked unlikely I would reach Christmas 2010. Things are a little better than then, but not by much; every 4 years that roll around is another 4 I have beaten the odds.

GG- remember you're only as old as the woman you cuddle( cleaned up, mods ), and she's only as old as she feels/looks acts.

GG- remember you're only as old as the woman you cuddle( cleaned up, mods ), and she's only as old as she feels/looks acts.

 

I used to go by "the last ponytail you pulled", but I dont even have the energy to think about it.

GG -mine is now sporting a pony tail, but as I'm heading for my bi annual haircut ,I don't want to pull hers, as she might well decide that mine is ripe for pulling.