1.4tdi ? low power, misfire under load, vibration

[karlbar2k]

OK, new car - new problems :  Yesterday I took a chance on a high mileage 1.4tdi that is in really nice condition apart from the engine not running quite right.  I know most people will say I should have walked away but at the price it was worth a punt even if I have to get an engine swap.

 

• first problem - is that the front electric windows and door mirrors don't work.  Scan below doesn't show anything so is there a single fuse that might cause it or are they on separate fuses?
  
• second problem - is low on power - I have had a 1.4tdi A2 and that used to pull really well
  
• third problem - is engine seems to vibrate more than I recall the A2 did, misfire?
  
• fourth problem - is under load (on cruise going up anything more than a slight gradient) it starts to hesitate/surge and this is accompanied with a lot of smoke (unburnt fuel) if you then floor the throttle the surging/hesitation goes away but again low on power and a lot of smoke.  on the flat (light load) and going downhill its OK
  

 

electrics on VAG cars are so awesome that anything other than a fuse just seems so unlikely! :-)  but if anyone has specific knowledge what to test it would be appreciated.  not afraid to strip doors down as I have had a Mk1 Octavia for a long time

 

I have read a few threads about injector loom being a prime suspect but the scan is not showing any codes at all.  It may have been reset before I bought it but I would have thought a 250 mile trip home would have caused any codes to reappear.

 

as always your help is appreciated

 

Karl

 

Sunday,30,October,2016,10:20:07:32264

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Chassis Type: 5J - Skoda Fabia II

Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 37 44 46 55 56 76 77

 

VIN: *******************   

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 01: Engine        Labels: Redir Fail!

   Part No: 045 906 019 CD

   Component: 1,4l R3 EDC G000SG  9745  

   Coding: 00102

   Shop #: WSC 13765  

   VCID: *******************

   *******************

 

1 Fault Found:

19586 - EGR System 

            P3130 - 35-10 - Regulation Range Exceeded - Intermittent

Readiness: 1 1 0 0 0 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 6R0-907-37x-ABS.lbl

   Part No SW: 6R0 907 379 C    HW: 6R0 907 379 C

   Component: ABS 8.0 front   H05 0002  

   Revision: 00000000    Serial number: 00000000000000

   Coding: 0002157

   Shop #: WSC 13765 790 00000

   VCID: *******************

 

1 Fault Found:

00290 - ABS Wheel Speed Sensor; Rear Left (G46) 

            008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

             Freeze Frame:

                    Fault Status: 00101000

                    Fault Priority: 2

                    Fault Frequency: 8

                    Reset counter: 119

                    Mileage: 251539 km

                    Time Indication: 0

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: Redir Fail!

   Part No: 5J0 907 044 A

   Component: CLIMAtronic SK25    0608  

   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000

   VCID: *******************

 

No fault code found.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels: 6Qx-937-049-C.lbl

   Part No: 6Q1 937 049 F

   Component: 0000 BN-SG.         2S36  

   Coding: 25742

   Shop #: WSC 13765  

   VCID: *******************

 

No fault code found.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl

   Part No: 1C0 909 605 F

   Component: QA AIRBAG VW61 Q5Q6 0004  

   Coding: 20801

   Shop #: WSC 13765  

   VCID: *******************

 

No fault code found.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 5J0-920-xxx-17.clb

   Part No: 5J0 920 940 C

   Component: KOMBIINSTR.    V2824486  

   Coding: 19404

   Shop #: WSC 13765  

   VCID: *******************

 

No fault code found.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl

   Part No: 6N0 909 901 

   Component: 000E GATEWAY CAN    2S36  

   Coding: 00014

   Shop #: WSC 13765  

   VCID: *******************

 

No fault code found.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 5J0-920-xxx-25.clb

   Part No: 5J0 920 940 C

   Component: IMMOBILIZER    V2824486  

   Coding: 19404

   Shop #: WSC 13765  

   VCID: *******************

 

No fault code found.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 6Q0-423-156.lbl

   Part No: 6Q0 423 156 AB

   Component: LenkhilfeTRW        V270  

   Coding: 10110

   Shop #: WSC 13765  

   VCID: *******************

 

No fault code found.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 6Q0-959-433.lbl

   Part No: 5J0 959 433 A

   Component: 03 Komfortgerát     0001  

   Coding: 00018

   Shop #: WSC 13765  

   VCID: *******************

 

1 Fault Found:

01135 - Interior Monitoring Sensors 

            36-10 - Open Circuit - Intermittent

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 56: Radio        Labels: 1K0-035-1xx-56.lbl

   Part No SW: 5J0 035 161     HW: 5J0 035 161 

   Component: Radio FO3       010 0029  

   Revision: 00010000    Serial number: *******************

   Coding: 0000400

   Shop #: WSC 13765 790 00000

   VCID: *******************

 

No fault code found.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 76: Park Assist        Labels: 5J0-919-283.lbl

   Part No: 5J0 919 283 

   Component: Einparkhilfe        V004  

   Revision: 00012000    Serial number: 07050032730614

   Coding: 0000120

   Shop #: WSC 13765 790 00000

   VCID: *******************

 

No fault code found.

 

End   ---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[karlbar2k]

forgot to add it did come up with visit shop exhaust code after about 50 miles so I guess thats DPF/EGR related.  

 

If I can get a list of the potential fixes lined up before dropping it to the garage for cambelt and water pump then they can do most of it before handing over to SWMBO or trading against something else

Edited 30 October, 2016 by karlbar2k

[karlbar2k]

Just realised I called it a misfire. DOH!  not technically the same as there is no spark, but feels like 1 cylinder is not getting ignition of the fuel hence low power and lots of unburnt diesel burning up in the exhaust causing black smoke cloud to follow me uphills :P  If anyone know the correct term for this in a diesel be good to know (unless its misfire, that would suck)

[Ootohere]

First is be sure you have a very good battery fitted.

Have new Filters, air and fuel filters.

 

Buy a Workshop Manual that covers your model.   Get to know a good local mechanic that knows the type of engine you have.

[karlbar2k]

OK Air filter is fine

I found the fault with the EGR - the engine cover had fouled the vac pipe and cut right through it. Now repaired and code cleared. 

while I had the bonnet up I also poped the pipe on the EGR and though dirty, it was not as bad as previous ones I have done

still runs like its on 2 cylinders but opened a new thread in VCDS section

[karlbar2k]

also found the windows and mirrors was fuse 11

changed it and windows opened and closed, right mirror worked OK but fuse blew when turned to heating position

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/415729-tdi-pd-injector-checks-with-vcds/ 

Edited 1 November, 2016 by karlbar2k

[2ndskoda]

I assume this is the 3 cylinder PD engine?

[karlbar2k]

yes it is

[bluecar1]

has the black smoke , unburnt fuel cleared after you replaced the EGR vacuum pipe?

 

if not have a look down the back of the engine, there is another vacuum pipe going to the turbo actuator, it could also be the wastegate is jammed on the turbo, the old mk1 vrs turbo used to have this issue

 

also check the boost pipe hasn't popped any joints

Edited 2 November, 2016 by bluecar1

[karlbar2k]

not on the short run I have taken it on since.  in my earlier post I have taken some injector logs while stationary at idle and with some revs which show  a difference in the readings but not sure how accurate these are on a PD

[karlbar2k]

is block 13 the one that shows variation?

 

 

Group B: '013                                    

Inj. Quantity Inj. Quantity Inj. Quantity

 -1.55           0.75             0.75        

Edited 4 November, 2016 by karlbar2k

[karlbar2k]

If I see this after a good run out is it likely a duff temp sender?

  Group A: '007           Temperature Duty Cycle Temperature Temperature   TIME         Marker STAMP °C  % °C °C               1265.02 63 0 16.2 78.3

 

Edited 4 November, 2016 by karlbar2k

[karlbar2k]

won't take a table 

[karlbar2k]

basically after 1265 seconds temp is sat at 78.3 where dash was showing 90

[karlbar2k]

OK Timing Belt and water pump changed as they were a little bit overdue, also swapped out the thermostat and its now warming up to temp properly, running a little bit cleaner but still low powered and smoking!

 

the boost hose that connects to the EGR valve bit is loose so have a new seal on order rather than changing the pipe, also looking at doing the "dog lease" fix with a band strap and some metal strip to stop the pipe moving and popping

looking through the service history the EGR valve was cleaned 5k ago but no mention of the inlet manifold so I guess if the EGR was bad enough to need cleaning then the intake should have been done at the same time.

what is the favored method?  buy a used manifold and new gasket, make sure its fully cleaned then swap out and sell on the manifold?  should I look at EGR delete at the same time?

does anyone know the manifold part number on a 80bhp 1.4tdi?  is it 045129713F  

when you do an inlet manifold clean/replace do the intake valves need cleaning like on a TSI??? or is it enough to make sure the EGR and Inlet are clean????

[karlbar2k]

OK this has been parked up for a while but is now back in use and still smoking under load/incline.  replaced the top hose as managed to get a good one cheap - still smokes

had the bottom engine cover off and found what I thought was a hole (other thread) but I had a better look today and I don't think its gone through as what I thought was blow by oil vapors looks to have come from the oil feed line. 

[karlbar2k]

replace the bottom boost hose and also tested the turbo wastegate actuator (works off boost not vac - uses the same block in the vac pump but its just a pipe routed up from the turbo and then back to the actuator) 

Still smokey and low on power.

 

not had compression tested but I would have thought that a problem with compression would be apparent at all loads/revs not just under load

 

still need to replace the inlet manifold as I have a nice clean one to go on, but thinking it must be injectors but trying to find a tdi specialist in Yorkshire that I can get it booked into is a nightmare

[karlbar2k]

• Ok. I still have black smoke so it's either too much fuel or not enough air...
• as well as smoke under load it also get a lot of vibration around 2k revs, more so than at lower revs, DMF or misfire due to overfueling?
• no boost leaks or vac leaks, have logged turbo in vcds  and whilst at low load it's slightly less than spec, if you press on a bit then boost is matching actual and holding ok (but smokes like a chimney at the same time) so the turbo is working, as previously mentioned the actuator etc has been tested as well
• Disconnect maf - still smokes but I would have thought a maf with dirty wire would read less air than actually going in which would lead to a lean condition not overfueling?
• The erg has been cleaned recently so possible the intake is blocked up, I have a nice clean replacement just not got around to fitting it yet.  Would a badly blocked one cause symptoms I am seeing?
• Had the rocker cover off and the cam looks good
• not had multimeter on the injector loom yet but no errors in the logs like others have had when they go bad, but if the resistance were to go high what would the effect be?  Would they inject more or less than a loom with low resistance?
• not had compression tested but if compression were a problem wouldn't I have poor idle as a symptom, which I dont

Strating to think it's going to be a duff injector, it's going into the garage tomorrow as I don't have time as need to fix it for mot and to pass on to my daughter. If anyone has any insight it would be appreciated 

[RichardatWakefield]

Hi Karl,

Can I suggest you get a bottle of Millers Eco Power Plus (their fuel additive), made by Millers oils in Brighouse, check their website for your nearest stockist, I think still UR Motoring in Garforth, or the place I now get it, Wood Auto Factors in George St, Waky (next to PO Sorting Centre carpark), add maybe double-dose, it helps clean out clogged injectors.  

Saves a lot of stripping and rebuilding!  been using it and its predecessors since 1988!!!

Let us know what that achieves.

If further help needed, Darkside Developments in Barnsley know their VW-made engines really well.

Had one of these 3-cyl 1.4tdi PD Fabias for several years.

Richard

[karlbar2k]

thought I would post an update that might help others

 

fix was cam and followers...

one of the followers was hollowed out really bad and the CAM lobes were worn.  

surprising as it was a full MD service history too??

not a cheap repair but car has now been passed on to no:1 daughter as her car didnt have isofix :-)