Gunked up breather system

[Adz_VRS]

Hey guys.

Just want to pick your brains. Ive been having major issues with my vrs. The most recent is an obserd amount of water present in my breather system. Ive fitted a samuchi catch tank, simplifying and deleting the pvc. This has been a closed loop system thats been present on the car for a good couple of years with little issue.

On a routine service/maintainance a few month back i noticed evidence of what i thought to be head gasket failure. Typical moose like gunk under the oil cap. A quick check enlightened me to a full catch tank. So that was emptied and hey hoe.... the issue went away, no more gunk.

So i upped my catch tank emptying routine to once a week. This alarmed me as the can would be quite full of just water..... very little in the way of gunk at all. Anyway the head gasket symptoms are back, gunk under the oil cap pretty much every day. Ive had a good check of my coolant levels and that never changes and a sniff test was negative to fumes so one can only presume the excessive breather vapour is filling the catch can and back syphoning into the head and down to the oil modine breather.

Last week i completely stripped the breather system. To my horror all pipes were full of mayo. The lower oil modine breather was completely blocked all together. Absolutely full of mayo a good 3 to 4 inches up the pipe work. All over pipes were just very clotted but still open.

I cleaned everything out. All pipes were flushed and the modine/crank case breathers were cleaned out and the catch can itself was flushed. After reading a few forums from the US; i converted to an open system and deleted the PCV valve and vented the catch can to atmosphere. Aparently this would dramatically reduce the build up of water vapour and reduce the chance of water build up in thenpipe work again.

Needless to say i checked it again 2 days after performing this and the catch tank was full of water again! So ive left the can open to drain at all times and also venting to atmosphere. Ive ran like this for the past week

Today i removed the rocker cover and replaced it with a perfect donor item. My original was absolutely minging! So looks like it may well have been blocked. But to my disgust i found that all my breather pipes were all gunked up again! Less than a weeks work of driving to be honest has resulted in a completely blocked modine breather again and mayo everywhere.

Does anyone have any idea what could be going on here as this car just seems to want to go to the knackers yard. Its just ticked past 130k and its always been ran on 5w30 castrol magnetec.

I actually replaced the oil pick up pipe alone with the oil pump last year so cant imagibe thats got anything to do with it. Just wobdering if theres anything else to check before i put the car back together again in the morning.

Cheers guys and sorry for the rant.

[KenONeill]

What sort of weekly mileage do you do?

[Adz_VRS]

Not a great deal tbh somewhere between 130 to 170 miles a week.

[KenONeill]

And in what sort of chunks? That's about my mileage, but I do it in 10ths, so the engine gets hot every trip.

[bigjohn]

I cleaned everything out. All pipes were flushed and the modine/crank case breathers were cleaned out and the catch can itself was flushed. After reading a few forums from the US; i converted to an open system and deleted the PCV valve and vented the catch can to atmosphere. Aparently this would dramatically reduce the build up of water vapour and reduce the chance of water build up in thenpipe work again.

 

 

Cars engines have not been allowed to vent crankcase fumes to atmosphere since the late 1960's / early 1970's - With this setup you are breaking the law and it should fail an MOT (if spotted!)

 

Is the moisture build-up worse in colder weather ? 

Have you had a cooling system pressure test ?

[Adz_VRS]

Tbh i carry out a 10 mile commute to work and back 5 days a week however most my mileage is covered going here and yhere over the weekend. My temp sits low and i have a new thermostat to fit tomorrow too. It'll get upto 90 but only in traffic then dye down to roughly 60/70 degrees whilst driving freely all other times.

[Adz_VRS]

Hey bigjohn

Thanks for that.

The venting to atmosphere was only for test purposes whilst the issue is to be solved. Apparently this should have helped reduce water build up whilst resolving the issue however it hasnt. Itll be reversed to PCV this weekend as the car has ran that set up for the past few years with no issue (s).....

No preasure test yet, just a fume test. Was hoping that removing the rocker cover would shed more light on the issue however it hasnt been as enlightening as i hoped.

If when the car is back together the issue persists then i will have to pursue this or other means of testing. Just trying to do everything i can that im able to without taking it into a garage.

Im just mostly concered about the modine breather and what may well be residing in there seeming how that 90degree elbow is the one mostly effected by the mayo build up.

Cars engines have not been allowed to vent crankcase fumes to atmosphere since the late 1960's / early 1970's - With this setup you are breaking the law and it should fail an MOT (if spotted!)

Is the moisture build-up worse in colder weather ?

Have you had a cooling system pressure test ?

[Adz_VRS]

Oh and as far as weathers concerned, yes it has got worse thanks to the cooler season

[bigjohn]

Oh and as far as weathers concerned, yes it has got worse thanks to the cooler season

 

This indicates the problem is condensation

 

Consider a few things :-

 

A new petrol car when running well produces lots of water vapour out of the exhaust pipe - very visible when cold

 

Fast forward a few years / miles - some of the exhaust fumes/ moisture will be blowing past the pistons/rings/bores - water will condense on any cold surfaces (if engine cold this includes rocker, metal surfaces) including external oil breather pipes. Any cold surfaces will result in condensation and mayo if oil (liquid or vapour) present

 

I had a Polo(long since gone)  that once worn seemed to pass more gasses out of the breather pipe than down the exhaust (used to pass MOT with a Tampax temporarily installed in the breather pipe and car carefully driven in!)

 

In addition my 2001 Octavia 1.416v - (currently 120k miles) is prone to oil mayo in the air filter / throttle body return pipe when the car is only driven for short journeys

Edited 29 December, 2016 by bigjohn

[bigjohn]

Im just mostly concered about the modine breather and what may well be residing in there seeming how that 90degree elbow is the one mostly effected by the mayo build up.

 

 

If you have ever cleared out under sink / bath drainage blocked plumbing - it's always blocked on  bend of some sort! 

[Adz_VRS]

Thanks bigjohn.

Albeit i understand your theory and yes the car has always had a build up of gunk; noted when originally fitting the catch tank system. Why would all of a sudden the issue get so much worse than ever before? The fact that in a weeks driving the entire breather system has clogged again after a complete flush and pipe clean is crazy to think it it merely condensation causing this issue. I do accept condensation will always eventually begin to clog the pipes but to the extent to fully clog the pipes within 150 miles of driving.

I left the engine running for 20minutes whilst running an engine flush today, drained the oil and removed the breather pipes merely for easy access to the coolant system; only to find the pupes werent condensed, but actually full of water! This was whilst running an atmospheric setup so the condensation should have evaporated out of my breather filter and not consensed as much to acumulate so much water. Im not over exaggerating regards the water,as soon as i removed the jubilee clip from the upper crank case water just flowed out :(

I suppose the only other aspect to consider would be that the vapour (s) cannot exit the oil catch tank and that the catch tank itself is the source of the issue. If that is blocked then condensation will not pass through to the aymosphere to evapourate and therefore accumulate in the tank. My confusion arrises because the can is open to dump all condensed vapours at all times as so not to fill up. But obviously after todays findings all breather pipes are still full of water and the catch tank is empty :/ i just cant get my head around the huge amount of condensation/ water present when it should just vent off or condense in the catch tank and drain..... (oh btw i have a used coke bottle sitting below the catch tank drain outlet to stop everything dripping into the moving parts of my car/the road).

Baring in mind my breather set up to atmosphere, im also surprised to find that whilst my car idled to flush the oil, if i opened the oil cap and restes it in position, the pressure build up behind it would rattle the cap around instead of it sitting still. Does this indicate that the main crank case breather is/was blocked? Bare in mind no pcv valve or hockey puck is present......

This indicates the problem is condensation

Consider a few things :-

A new petrol car when running well produces lots of water vapour out of the exhaust pipe - very visible when cold

Fast forward a few years / miles - some of the exhaust fumes/ moisture will be blowing past the pistons/rings/bores - water will condense on any cold surfaces (if engine cold this includes rocker, metal surfaces) including external oil breather pipes. Any cold surfaces will result in condensation and mayo if oil (liquid or vapour) present

I had a Polo(long since gone) that once worn seemed to pass more gasses out of the breather pipe than down the exhaust (used to pass MOT with a Tampax temporarily installed in the breather pipe and car carefully driven in!)

In addition my 2001 Octavia 1.416v - (currently 120k miles) is prone to oil mayo in the air filter / throttle body return pipe when the car is only driven for short journeys

[Adz_VRS]

I suppose for me its the time scale since the last clean out i find hard to believe the car doesnt have a bigger issue :(

[Leeboy]

I think you need to get your new thermostat in. If in this cold damp weather the engine is running below temp then water is condensing in the oil and the catch can isn't getting sufficiently hot.

Fix the thermostat and see that your temp gauge stays on 90 whether in traffic or on the open road and see if it helps.

[bigjohn]

I think you need to get your new thermostat in. If in this cold damp weather the engine is running below temp then water is condensing in the oil and the catch can isn't getting sufficiently hot.

Fix the thermostat and see that your temp gauge stays on 90 whether in traffic or on the open road and see if it helps.

 

Well spotted - missed the  " roughly 60/70 degrees whilst driving freely all other times" post

 

Edited 29 December, 2016 by bigjohn

[Adz_VRS]

Yeah Leeboy thats what the aim of this weekend was about. Fix all the little niggles of the car and see where it takes me. The purpose of the post was to see if i was missing anything that i havent thought about.

Im hoping that the rocker cover swap has helped the main breather to relieve vapour to the catch tank (or heat it up to optimal temp as you suggest). Fingers crossed the wynns engine flush has done its job and moved/flushed any residual gunk from the engine (yet to be seen/believed). Im hoping that i dont have to go tonyhe extent of removing the sump and oil pump again for inspection but maybe its wise to do so....... pain in the ass of a job to do when your on your back.

I have already in the past replaced the coolant temp switch to the newer green version, done a whole load of simplification mods to vac and boost lines; in the past 5 weeks its had a full turbo back system, new primary and secondary lambda, Bosch MAF, N75 valve, plugs, ultrasonically Cleaned injectors and new 3 bar fuel pressure reg ( car has suffered hesitation issues ever sinse i purchased it some 5 years ago).

It just seems you fix one thing then create another issue with these engines. Got to love VAG cars. My Fabia VRS is exactly the same! That bugger ended up with another engine in it and a garret turbo. Money pits these Skodas like haha

Will update this thread with my findings after i get the car up and running again.

Thanks for all the advice guys

I think you need to get your new thermostat in. If in this cold damp weather the engine is running below temp then water is condensing in the oil and the catch can isn't getting sufficiently hot.

Fix the thermostat and see that your temp gauge stays on 90 whether in traffic or on the open road and see if it helps.

[Adz_VRS]

Everything up and running again. Car sits comfortably at a firm 90 degrees. Going to check breather system closely the next few days. Cleaned all electrical connections, the inlet air temp sensor was shocking! The throttle body did need a good clean too. The car seems to be uber smooth now whilst driving but i have noticed that it tends to hunt slighyly on idle ( i put this down to me removing the battery whilst removing the alternator/throttle body). I have seen that the car is running slightly lean too. When replacing the plugs the tips of the electrodes were white :( so need to sort this issue out too. My catch tank is now visibly venting to atmosphere via a filter element too so early signs are good. Thanks for the help guys