Generic Map on a Hybrid Turbo ?

[Graffiti]

Hi there people,

 

Let me give a bit of insight in to the situation.

 

I have a good strong well serviced fabia vrs on BLT set up.  I have frozen my nuts off fitting a Airtec FMIC, Egr Delete ( retaining asv), cat back S'S exhaust, Apollo induction kit and a new clutch and flyweel.  To compliment these mods I fitted a rebuilt 1749va with VC internals and hardened billet wheel as the final touch.

 

I havnt even started it up yet and the question of mapping arose, being north of Inverness there are very limited remap places. Probably a REVO agent being about the most reputable.  Now, I dont want mad power figures but a reliable figure, so the stage 2 revo sounded okay and even hoped for a little more power as the hardware requirements didnt list a hybrid turbo on the website.  

 

Now someone has just told me this is a bad idea as overboost is likely and turbo will go bang!   So im nervous now!!  :sweat:

 

What do I do?   Can I send my ecu somewhere to see if they have on file a car thats been mapped with the same mods?  Do i leave it standard map? 

 

Darkside told me they wont map a car with a hybrid turbo so even if I could get down they wont do it anyway.  :(

 

Im totally confused and bewildered and actually a bit disheartened.  I thought changing a few tired items would be best before tuning a little. Mapping the car in february was the final touch.

 

If you guy's have a little feedback Id appreciate it.

 

G

[Jrjg]

Have you got access or would buying vcds be an option?

If so you could record plenty of road logs then have the car remotely mapped (a mapper would send you a base file, you would 'install' that into your Ecu, drive it, record more road logs, send the logs back to the mapper, the mapper would tweak them and alter the injection durations, fuelling etc etc then send you the next map through. Rinse and repeat until you were happy with the finished product.

Speak to Kris at Diesel Powered, he comes highly recommended from myself and quite a few others from the forum.

JRJG

[Jrjg]

http://www.dieselpowered.co.uk

To get the most out of your setup you need a custom remap whichever route you decide to take.

A stage one or stage two generic remap won't run/pull as well as a custom map will.

[Graffiti]

Have you got access or would buying vcds be an option?

If so you could record plenty of road logs then have the car remotely mapped (a mapper would send you a base file, you would 'install' that into your Ecu, drive it, record more road logs, send the logs back to the mapper, the mapper would tweak them and alter the injection durations, fuelling etc etc then send you the next map through. Rinse and repeat until you were happy with the finished product.

Speak to Kris at Diesel Powered, he comes highly recommended from myself and quite a few others from the forum.

JRJG

 

I'm not sure how I would even go about doing it all to be honest.  Is it just a case of buying the full version of vcds lite and the wee blue cable?  and then plug in and away we go with the laptop on the passenger seat?!  It would be a definite option if It was simple enough.

 

Thanks for the option.

[Jrjg]

I'm not sure how I would even go about doing it all to be honest. Is it just a case of buying the full version of vcds lite and the wee blue cable? and then plug in and away we go with the laptop on the passenger seat?! It would be a definite option if It was simple enough.

Thanks for the option.

That's the one.

Plug and play, except the play means play about in third gear till redline ;)

Not the method I would choose but as you are lucky enough (honestly you are lucky!) to live so far north it may be the most viable option.

JRJG

[KenONeill]

If you'd be prepared to go this far, you could try Agra Engineering in Dundee, or Bedrock VW in Motherwell.

[Harry1212]

There's plenty of good mappers who can do it all online for you, I hear the name John from Hidden Power quite a bit on this forum so got to be decent.

[Graffiti]

If you'd be prepared to go this far, you could try Agra Engineering in Dundee, or Bedrock VW in Motherwell.

 

 Thanks for the names ken, Dundee could be an option. I will check them out tonight and drop an email.

 

There's plenty of good mappers who can do it all online for you, I hear the name John from Hidden Power quite a bit on this forum so got to be decent.

 

Yeah, I heard of that guy to. I will see what he says as regards doing it online.   I do think its my only option.   I will email just now to see what he says and keep you all posted on any outcomes tomorrow.  :yes:  :yes:

Edited 12 January, 2017 by Graffiti

[Graffiti]

Jrig,

 

Email sent to diesel power and waiting on reply to see what he thinks.

 

As for being so far north being lucky,  Beauty in the eye of the beholder n all that lol    Its the long winding roads without seeing a single car that does it for me.  Bloooody freeezing today though!!

[KenONeill]

 Thanks for the names ken, Dundee could be an option. I will check them out tonight and drop an email.

 

 

Yeah, I heard of that guy to. I will see what he says as regards doing it online.   I do think its my only option.   I will email just now to see what he says and keep you all posted on any outcomes tomorrow.  :yes:  :yes:

It's not the only thing they do (it isn't even all transport related) but Agra have been a good engine tuner for the last 50 years or so.

[vindaloo]

Jrig,

 

Email sent to diesel power and waiting on reply to see what he thinks.

 

As for being so far north being lucky,  Beauty in the eye of the beholder n all that lol    Its the long winding roads without seeing a single car that does it for me.  Bloooody freeezing today though!!

 

Slightly OT here.... EGR delete in a BLT. And you live in Scotland? Doesn't that mean it takes even longer for the heater to start blowing warmer air?

[Graffiti]

Slightly OT here.... EGR delete in a BLT. And you live in Scotland? Doesn't that mean it takes even longer for the heater to start blowing warmer air?

 

Nah,  Hardcore.   The snow clogs the radiator so you kinda balance out.  :D

Edited 12 January, 2017 by Graffiti

[EKM]

Jrig,

 

Email sent to diesel power and waiting on reply to see what he thinks.

 

As for being so far north being lucky,  Beauty in the eye of the beholder n all that lol    Its the long winding roads without seeing a single car that does it for me.  Bloooody freeezing today though!!

 

Thanks for the email, reply is forthcoming - the key point of which is that whichever route you go a custom remap is essential - to get the best from a hybrid you'll want to run a (somewhat personalised) level of boost that makes the most of the turbo without pushing too far, but you'll also need the fuel delivery adjusting to a level to complement this.

 

Because the boost is as much a function of the fuel amount, n75 base map, PID perameters and actuator position collectively it's absolutely essential (IMO) to run logs even with the boost set to desired to ensure control is within a reasonable window  of setpoint, particularly on load but also within limits when in open loop too (light throttle and so forth). As a tuner i'm a bit obsessed by this but it's paramount for the long term mechanical safety of the engine, it's the one easy thing to monitor that can tell you a lot.

 

The biggest hurdle we face is not so much the mapping (you don't have to worry about the detail thats more my problem), but the logistics - to get a tune on your car we need to get you access to equipment to do the programming (£££ for legitimate gear), and a good datalogging tool (VCDS the best here without question).

 

I had some powergates for this purpose - but unfortunately I shipped the last out this morning! Still if you get stuck I have other solutions such as our own developed programmers, or so forth.

 

 

Anyway we'll help where we can, just appreciate that I'm not the fastest with email - as well as our own customers we support a few garages so we're frequently playing catchup 

 

Reply will be with you soon in any case

 

cheers

Kris

(dieselpowered if you haven't guessed)

Edited 12 January, 2017 by EKM

[Graffiti]

Thanks for the email, reply is forthcoming - the key point of which is that whichever route you go a custom remap is essential - to get the best from a hybrid you'll want to run a (somewhat personalised) level of boost that makes the most of the turbo without pushing too far, but you'll also need the fuel delivery adjusting to a level to complement this.

 

Because the boost is as much a function of the fuel amount, n75 base map, PID perameters and actuator position collectively it's absolutely essential (IMO) to run logs even with the boost set to desired to ensure control is within a reasonable window  of setpoint, particularly on load but also within limits when in open loop too (light throttle and so forth). As a tuner i'm a bit obsessed by this but it's paramount for the long term mechanical safety of the engine, it's the one easy thing to monitor that can tell you a lot.

 

The biggest hurdle we face is not so much the mapping (you don't have to worry about the detail thats more my problem), but the logistics - to get a tune on your car we need to get you access to equipment to do the programming (£££ for legitimate gear), and a good datalogging tool (VCDS the best here without question).

 

I had some powergates for this purpose - but unfortunately I shipped the last out this morning! Still if you get stuck I have other solutions such as our own developed programmers, or so forth.

 

 

Anyway we'll help where we can, just appreciate that I'm not the fastest with email - as well as our own customers we support a few garages so we're frequently playing catchup 

 

Reply will be with you soon in any case

 

cheers

Kris

(dieselpowered if you haven't guessed)

 

Kris,

 

That was a fantastic reply.  I really appreciate the time you took out to write that.

 

It has lifted my spirits no end!!

 

This is a quick reply but message more by emai !

 

tris

[Jrjg]

There's plenty of good mappers who can do it all online for you, I hear the name John from Hidden Power quite a bit on this forum so got to be decent.

Unfortunately he has stopped doing remapping, the consensus on the forum was in favour of his services. He was my first choice but as I say - stopped doing it :(

Had mind mapped by Kris at Diesel Powered instead and can't recommend him highly enough.

JRJG

[Jrjg]

Jrig,

Email sent to diesel power and waiting on reply to see what he thinks.

As for being so far north being lucky, Beauty in the eye of the beholder n all that lol Its the long winding roads without seeing a single car that does it for me. Bloooody freeezing today though!!

Absolutely - quiet roads, nice people, spectacular scenery, brilliant landscapes to hike and explore.

Bring on the cold weather too, I'm off mountaineering this weekend, to find the snow drifts in what was -19 temps today!

I hope Kris gets you sorted with your mapping. Look forward to hearing how you get on

JRJG

[EKM]

You get the Northern lights at times so I hear, and some fab scenery, a friend of mine goes up quite regularly I would like to too someday, though i'd probably head for the west coast and uist etc.

 

You also get the Northern lights, though if the local rag is to be believed you can on rare occasions also see them in Oldham.

 

Anyway, all emails now up to date - I look forward to hearing from you in any case!

 

goodnight!

[Graffiti]

Absolutely - quiet roads, nice people, spectacular scenery, brilliant landscapes to hike and explore.

Bring on the cold weather too, I'm off mountaineering this weekend, to find the snow drifts in what was -19 temps today!

I hope Kris gets you sorted with your mapping. Look forward to hearing how you get on

JRJG

 

Well stay safe bud!   Certainly lots to explore up here.  In my old defender I got stuck in some very remote locations with no phone signal,  adventures to be had.  Thanks again for putting me in touch with kris!    You will have to bring that SE of yours up for a blast one day  ;)   when I get this sorted I will post up again as it's only fair to let you know how things are going.    

Cant wait to get out this peugeot 1.4 hdi 2005 Im running!!  I know I could use the fabia but I want to wait you know?  Bit like opening a present on the 24th of december then the 25th you havnt got anything lol   Cant wait to hear it and feel the new feedback from the mods. 

I think also because I have dont all the work myself it's made me appreciate it even more ( was the biggest jobs I have undertaken )

 

Speak soon

 

Tris

[Graffiti]

You get the Northern lights at times so I hear, and some fab scenery, a friend of mine goes up quite regularly I would like to too someday, though i'd probably head for the west coast and uist etc.

 

You also get the Northern lights, though if the local rag is to be believed you can on rare occasions also see them in Oldham.

 

Anyway, all emails now up to date - I look forward to hearing from you in any case!

 

goodnight!

 

Morning kris,

 

I have been lucky enough to see the lights three times.  I cant explain it very well but was down for a 2 am leak and was staring out the bathroom frosted glass in a daze to see an extremely bright light.  Behind us is mountains so apart from the moon there are no other lights, I went out in the back garden and well, I hope people dont think me a wuss but it brought a tear to my eye.

 

It was waves of red green and pink and acts like its alive.  The crazy thing is you can feel them, it's like the hair's on the back of your neck, on your arms etc all stand up.  Since 2011 I have been looking out for them.  We have a very high view point with no light pollution very close, all it takes is to check the Aurora forecast and a little patience ( or a lot! )

 

Let me know if you want to come up to the highlands and I will keep you right, somewhere to stay and best things to do etc.

 

I  will speak to you over on email now kris to save you replying twice  :D

 

I will pop back on with an update when I have the car sorted, until then a big thanks for everyone's input.

 

Tris

[Graffiti]

So a friend who is an mot tester has popped by to tell me a garage they work with are vag specialists and are confident they can get a map for my car from a company in america which will suit the hybrid. They have all the equipment to flash on to the car and are around the corner from me.

 

This time yesterday I had no idea what to do.   One thing is for sure though kris at diesel power must have some loyal customers if he treats them the same way he has treated me over a question.

 

So now to decide which route to go down?

 

Route 1

 

Pay an expert with fantastic attitude to help map my car remotely.  I am not the best with computers etc but could be a better map. 

 

Route 2

 

Trust the car to a garage locally who feel the company in america will have a map suitable for the vehicle.

 

To be continued

[stevobeavo]

Route 1.

Sounds like your getting a random hybrid turbo map. All maps imo should be custom ones especially on a hybrid seeing there all built slightly different from one another.

[Jrjg]

Route 1.

Sounds like your getting a random hybrid turbo map. All maps imo should be custom ones especially on a hybrid seeing there all built slightly different from one another.

+1

[EKM]

Whilst I run my own business, I don't ever want to tell anyone that they should use me (and god forbid otherwise), so it's a bit hard to decide how to respond - but the general gist is the route you go down is ultimately a personal choice of whats best for you. 

 

Another important point - the above advice and from my email remains valid and should be considered in any case - a custom turbo needs a custom tune, and it needs backing up with logs to verify the outputs meet the control targets, these are the basic ingredients of a tune and its extremely difficult to replicate a tune even with similar setups without individual vehicle specific customisation. So whatever you end up doing, to be optimal and to have provable confidence in the result it does need to go through that process.

[Graffiti]

Thank you for that Kris,  I was just checking out one more option and as a novice on the engine management side when somebody from a reputable garage here say's we could get you something near enough It is a godsend for an expert to give their opinion, without it I would never know.

 

So on that basis I will heed the replies above and EKM (Kris) and find this custom map.   Pay day is not far away ( woop woop)  and the wife is no longer throwing missiles at me on the prospect of a wee bit more money on the car.

 

Im going to work hard to find a custom mapper who I can get in the next 10 days......If this does not work out then I really do feel I will have to burden kris at EKM and throw a plan around along with exchanges of funds to help as without a custom map I just dont want to drive it!  

 

Today we are snowed in up the hill,  Hmmm maybe I should get a Land rover again! 

 

To all the above replies,  I thank you!!

 

Right time to show the bairn snow for the first time.   

[Guest BigJase88]

The limiting factor will be the clutch and flywheel although new items. Should really of uprated

You'll want to keep the peak torque around 300lb-ft so you dont run into slipping issues. And as high up the rev range as you can get it

You could see around 220bhp but you'll have to have a torque limiting custom map

Edited 14 January, 2017 by BigJase88