Just over the last 6 months, I've been finding it increasingly more difficult to deal with headlight dazzle from some vehicles when diving at night. Its mainly the LED type I'm finding difficulty with. Generally, I'm OK with halogens.

 

It may be tempus fugit kicking in, but i'm just wondering whether there has there been a change in the units being supplied either to new cars or for retro-fitting ?

 

I've got myself a pair of driving specs with yellow tinted lenses.

 

Although I've yet to use them, a quick test with a Portable LED floodlight in  darkened room, indicates to me that they take away the glare but also reduce the illumination by  about 20%. Is there a downside to using these, particularly on a sustained basis ?

 

 

Nick

 

 

Edited 4 February, 20179 yr by Clunkclick

Best go try use them then, a few more hours and it will be dark.

There are various websites that have differing opinions from professionals in one subject or another.)

 

I have yellow lense driving glasses (spectacles), cheap and expensive and sometimes use them in fog and snow and gloomy weather but i find in the dark i get blinded worse by some 

drivers with 'Special Needs' lighting on their vehicles.

(maybe they should go get their eyes tested or check out what their vehicle looks like coming towards them in another vehicle.)

There are a lot more vehicles around with higher mounted headlights these days, SUV's, Crossovers etc, so I'm often blinded by a high riding oncoming Qashqai, when 5 years ago it's predecessor (Primera/Almera) was down at the same height as me.

I was going to get an eye test anyway for reasons connected with my main condition anyway. This just hastens it. 

 

Part of the problem is that the heater is out at the moment so that in the cold, at night, even with the cabin fan running on cold air, a little more than normal moisture from exhaled breath sticks on the screen.

 

Notwithstanding that, there still seems to me a hell of a lot of extra glare coming off these new LEDs.

 

If the advertisers are to be believed then, cars like the Astra can sense oncoming traffic and turn down the main beam output accordingly.  If that applies to the Astra, then that's probably standard in new BMs, Mercs and Audis ?

 

So is the glare just coming from retro-fit vehicles ?

 

N

Edited 4 February, 20179 yr by Clunkclick

2 minutes ago, camelspyyder said:

There are a lot more vehicles around with higher mounted headlights these days, SUV's, Crossovers etc, so I'm often blinded by a high riding oncoming Qashqai, when 5 years ago it's predecessor (Primera/Almera) was down at the same height as me.

True.

 

None of these have beam output stepdown ?

 

N

It could be worse. You could be driving a car in the US where nearly everyone else has a pick up truck with headlights above your eye level. I hated commuting at night over there...until I got an F-150 myself of course  

10 minutes ago, camelspyyder said:

It could be worse. You could be driving a car in the US where nearly everyone else has a pick up truck with headlights above your eye level. I hated commuting at night over there...until I got an F-150 myself of course  

Works, 'till everybody gets a street-legal monster pick-up.

 

I notice that some of these manufacturers refer in their literature to "Laser light".

 

I take it that this is just advertisers licence with the term  and not the sort of coherent light used in those laser pointers which are being used to worry aircraft. 

 

Nick

Edited 4 February, 20179 yr by Clunkclick

I must read up on that. Lasers that could light the road would be exceedingly bad for oncoming motorists. Anything above Cat 2 can permanently damage the human eye.

Id say thats just marketing blumff to be honest.

but.. in a rare event... i agree with your sentiment  re light glare. 

Mostly french and mostly crossovers seem to have LED lights as standard which is fine but the crossovers ride high so the dip is still blinding, and french cars seem to never be adjusted for RHD, so the beam pattern is awful out of the box.

add to that the badly installed retro-$hit ebay upgrade kits and it just gets worse

Edited 4 February, 20179 yr by mac11irl
grammatical error

It used to be a BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Range Rover / TATA issue,  now SUV Hyundai / Kia, Fiat, SEAT seem to be the spawn of the devil.

& those French ones from either of the 3 companies.

Edited 4 February, 20179 yr by Offski

 . . and to think that the French demanded that we painted our headlights yellow not so long ago

You're all getting old 

2 minutes ago, silver1011 said:

You're all getting old 

 

Excuse me.. i am but a spritely 33 yrs old. And... the oldest person in my extended family ( including all cousins on both my mother's and father's side) to not have glasses of any prescription

However, my nightvision is also very good (lotsa nights walking track with torch off as ambient light was fine for me). Until some little french thing or a soft roader comes around a bend and im seeing spots for minutes

8 hours ago, Clunkclick said:

Works, 'till everybody gets a street-legal monster pick-up.

 

I notice that some of these manufacturers refer in their literature to "Laser light".

 

I take it that this is just advertisers licence with the term  and not the sort of coherent light used in those laser pointers which are being used to worry aircraft. 

 

Nick

There are manufacturers using lasers for headlights. The BMW i8 at my work has them as a optional extra (£8k) they can only be used in high beam and when the car is going about 37mph. There's traditional LEDs in the lights too. 

 

The light produced is safe to look at and the output when comparing them to normal LEDs there is no comparison, the lasers light the roads as far as you can see with almost zero drop off. There is software to detect on coming traffic which then switches the high beam back to the LEDs.

'They' just need to build in software that if there is a Bulb/ LED / Light unit failure, not only is there a warning but if the fault is not addressed within 100 miles 

the vehicle will fail to start next time.  ie Warning lights on the Virtual Reality dash showing that there are actual lights out.

That will have many Audi & other premium vehicles off the road when one or other of the lights are faulty.

 

More Software that if a vehicle does enough slow speed turns at junctions without indicating or does lane changes then an electric shock is given via the heated seat to the driver.

?

Will autonomous car from Premium Manufacturers be programmed to drive too close to vehicles in front, and fail to indicate their intention.

Obviously they will not need 'Special Needs' lights, just the radar system and some marker lights to warn other vehicles of their presence.

Edited 5 February, 20179 yr by Offski

My understanding is the laser is the power source not the actual light.  The laser shines on a coating on the headlight which then kicks out the visible light. 

 

I find the the main issue with headlights is with halogens that either have one bulb out so people are driving either with beam all the time or one much brighter than the other, that or lights so badly aligned they're shining directly at you.

I've noticed it more over the last few years. I think it's down to more and more cars having Xenons and some people fitting high power halogen bulbs. I know xenons are supposed to have self adjusters but on bumpy roads I don't think they work that well. 

 

My last car had xenons I used to get flashed regularly with dipped beam. I guess that others were getting the glare I also get from them.

It would be interesting to know the Type Approval process that all this lighting has undergone.

 

Most of the cars that appear to have these new lights also have fogs - does the software ramp up the intensity of these in compensation when the "Lasers"/Xenons are stepped down on approach of other cars ?

 

Nick

38 minutes ago, Clunkclick said:

It would be interesting to know the Type Approval process that all this lighting has undergone.

 

Most of the cars that appear to have these new lights also have fogs - does the software ramp up the intensity of these in compensation when the "Lasers"/Xenons are stepped down on approach of other cars ?

 

Nick

 

I think type approval is required for the manufacturer fitted systems but that's no to say people don't fit aftermarket systems like Aspman says.  I'm sure I read somewhere BMW weren't able to fit lasers to the i8 in the USA for a while as all laser tech is controlled by the FDA as they regard all lasers as medical tech. 

 

 

If it's the BMW system you're asking about, at a guess it's the same as the adaptive LED system I have on the X3, this doesn't use the fog lights except as cornering lights, it moves the beam away from oncoming traffic by creating a "hole" in the beam where the car is only it moves to laser rather than main beam when the conditions are right almost giving a second more powerful beam. 

 

I've driven about 4K miles with the LED system now, mostly in the dark and never been flashed except for a few miles where I set it to the wrong side of the road like a muppet. 

 

I have seen certain cars with fogs on as well (quashqi/ juke are good examples) but I'm never sure if that's the driver or they're in lieu of DRLs.

Edited 5 February, 20179 yr by gullyg

1 hour ago, Aspman said:

I've noticed it more over the last few years. I think it's down to more and more cars having Xenons and some people fitting high power halogen bulbs. I know xenons are supposed to have self adjusters but on bumpy roads I don't think they work that well. 

 

My last car had xenons I used to get flashed regularly with dipped beam. I guess that others were getting the glare I also get from them.

This.

Conclusion ?  Loads of muppets out there in new vehicles who don't know how to re-adjust the headlight slew + lots of aftermarket fitments which are short of full functionality.

 

MOT'ers are going to be busy.

 

Nick

4 minutes ago, Wino said:

This.

I noticed it, particularly this week, when passing lines of stationary or drifting traffic - would self-levelling be an issue there ?

 

Nick

On 05/02/2017 at 10:32, Clunkclick said:

Conclusion ?  Loads of muppets out there in new vehicles who don't know how to re-adjust the headlight slew + lots of aftermarket fitments which are short of full functionality.

 

MOT'ers are going to be busy.

 

Nick

 

Most people don't need to know how adjust the headlights, they expect the manufacturer to have done their job propery when building the vehicle in the first place.

 

MOT'ers be busy? Nope, most of them don't bother to check alignment (takes too long, get the basics done and get the money in - surely you must know how profit-orientated these organisations are?).....just look at the amount of people who haven't managed to put their halogen bulbs in properly and have been like it for more than 13 months. There's several around here with no number-plate lights, and blacked out plates from the dirt......all passes. (I thought you knew all about people who don't do their jobs properly.)

 

 

On 05/02/2017 at 10:35, Clunkclick said:

I noticed it, particularly this week, when passing lines of stationary or drifting traffic - would self-levelling be an issue there ?

 

Nick

 

Nope, wrong again, not every car you'll have seen will have a self-levelling system to "have an issue" with.

 

 

It's the time of year when there is a lot of residue thrown up from the wet roads (all dirty, and salty from making sure the old duffers don't fall over and sue their councils), which in turn lands on the headlights. This is what creates glare (one of the reasons that HID and LED are supposed to have washer systems, given their greater light output.) This happens regardless of what lighting system you have (From the Pixel-Light system in VW/Audis, down to Halogens mounted in Fabias) Given, as said before, HID and LED are supposed to have cleaning systems, the chances are they have a reduction in glare. What does happen is the old duffers in their old halogen equiped vehicles don't stop to make sure their lights are clean. It's not hard to judge either......look at the number-plate: if it's dirty, so are the headlights. Only takes a few seconds to wipe them down too. If done at night, more often than not you can see the reduction in glare - (or just look at the cloth at the amount of dirt you remove). That's the glare that you complain about seeing from other road users.....you produce it too.

 

Other causes are those who retro-fit HID and LED in reflectors, mis-fitted bulbs (you'd be surprised how often this happens), foreign vehicles (for whilst we have to adjust our headlights for going over there, they don't coming over here - and there is an increase in foreign traffic on our roads too), people who haven't adjusted for load, those SUV type of vehicles (higher headlights - more dazzle) and not forgetting the old love who simply *must* drive around on main-beam. (There are bikes too, but thate doesn't count - they have to blind people so you know that they are there.) Given that newer cars will have better lighting, and (let's face it) no-ones eyes aren getting any younger, this is a problem that will only get worse.

 

Best also get that heater fixed too, if there's an accident, that could be considered as a contributary factor.....or buy one of those 12v car heaters....instant heat!

http://www.lightmare.org/effect_on_vision.htm

 

This article seems to indicate that there is an inherent eye health issue specifically with Xenon and LEDs, which as you say may be made worse with poor user kerbside maintenance and less than thorough MOT processing.

 

Its even more worrying when you realise that 6-7/10 cars on the road are  fleet. So any deficiencies in maintenance are a corporate responsibility.

 

That said, the perception is that there are far more cars on the roads today which aren't properly maintained, and don't have insurance or MOTs. Reports indicate that it seems to be more prevalent in certain areas and population groups than others, which, together with lack of official manpower, may explain any "Soft pedalling" on enforcement.

 

I think the stipulations in the MOT are clear as regards lighting. And ignorance of law, whether as a corporate or private owner or is no defence at law and similarly for MOT'ers.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjMn6KQ-P7RAhWpC8AKHRlAC0wQFggcMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gov.uk%2Fgovernment%2Fuploads%2Fsystem%2Fuploads%2Fattachment_data%2Ffile%2F585905%2Fmot-inspection-manual-classes-3-4-5-and-7.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHX16M2-QfhARtvNi3j-UlF0Kmn

 

 

Nick

Edited 7 February, 20179 yr by Clunkclick

Reading on from the articles embedded in the hypertext link I quoted above, I think I'm able to answer my own question:-

 

http://www.lightmare.org/docs/Why HID bother older drivers British Journal Ophthalmology 2003 08700113.pdf

 

" Driving requires effective coordination of visual, motor, and cognitive skills. Visual skills are pushed to their limit at night by decreased illumination and by disabling glare from oncoming headlights. High intensity discharge (HID) headlamps project light farther down roads, improving their owner’s driving safety by increasing the time available for reaction to potential problems. Glare is proportional to headlamp brightness, however, so increasing headlamp brightness also increases potential glare for oncoming drivers, particularly on curving two lane roads. This problem is worse for older drivers because of their increased intraocular light scattering, glare sensitivity, and photostress recovery time. An analysis of automobile headlights, intraocular stray light, glare, and night driving shows that brightness rather than blueness is the primary reason for the visual problems that HID headlights can cause for older drivers who confront them. The increased light projected by HID headlights is potentially valuable, but serious questions remain regarding how and where it should be projected."

 

http://www.lightmare.org/docs/ProfDavidReesletter12May2011.pdf

 

There's a reference in that web page to alleged adverse neurological effects of HIDs - unfortunately the links quoted are 404 at the moment.

 

I would think there's sufficient there for concern especially with occupations that are required to do lots of night driving in saloon cars. 

 

I would imagine also, that there are varied interactions between the various street lighting and sign lighting schemas used in different areas and that in more financially liberal times these issues would have been the subject of Research Reports commissioned by the Road Research Laboraties or academia in general and that the Ministry of Transport might have relied on these when reaching a considered view on granting type approval.

 

No doubt, in line with  recent"Modern" experience, these reports, if they exist, won't come to light until the occurence of a pattern of serious incidents cue the ambulance chasing lawyers to "Get on the case"

 

Nick

Edited 7 February, 20179 yr by Clunkclick