From Hyundai: the Kona

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1110841_hyundai-kona-electric-will-new-small-electric-suv-come-to-north-america

9 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

From Hyundai: the Kona

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1110841_hyundai-kona-electric-will-new-small-electric-suv-come-to-north-america

 

It would need an 80 KwH battery at least for that sort of range I reckon which is a lot to add for a small SUV and the cost likely to be $10K plus just for the battery.

 

In the UK we may be looking at Kia / Hyundai facing customs duties from when the UK leaves EU so I expect we will be seeing a lot less cars from that country post BREXIT (unless the UK clones that deal in about a year which would be a record).       

 

.....more an indication where things are headed, for me.

Batterys can't be stopped 

Necessity is the mother of invention.

 

However I would like to see a couple of tests for cars to see real range/mpg - 

 

1. The lab test - super optimised for maximum efficiency in a completely unrealistic way
2. The road test - A more realistic test of actual road driving
3. The Scottish test - carried out in average June temperatures of -5C going up and down 1:5 gradients with a car containing 2 overweight farmers, a dog the size of a Shetland pony and a boot filled with 50Kg of golf clubs, beer and other crap.

16 hours ago, Ryeman said:

.....more an indication where things are headed, for me.

Batterys can't be stopped 

 

1 hour ago, Aspman said:

Necessity is the mother of invention.

 

However I would like to see a couple of tests for cars to see real range/mpg - 

 

1. The lab test - super optimised for maximum efficiency in a completely unrealistic way
2. The road test - A more realistic test of actual road driving
3. The Scottish test - carried out in average June temperatures of -5C going up and down 1:5 gradients with a car containing 2 overweight farmers, a dog the size of a Shetland pony and a boot filled with 50Kg of golf clubs, beer and other crap.

Speaking of a "realistic test of actual driving", how about battery cars having to declare range in case (3) rather than on a flat road, at 18c, and carrying a lone 40kg female?

"the european cycle doen't reflect" etc etc   the Eu Cycle like everything else doesn't reflect reality apart from their expenses---no that's not right either---does anything reflect reality in the EU ???   how do Hyundai etc stand now re the 10% import duty ?   or is it cost +shipping +10% and still a car at a reasonable price?

 

17 hours ago, KenONeill said:

 

Speaking of a "realistic test of actual driving", how about battery cars having to declare range in case (3) rather than on a flat road, at 18c, and carrying a lone 40kg female?

The U.S. standards are much stricter when it comes to electric range claims.

Hint: lawyers 

I wonder how long before they add a CO2 generation tax to electric cars?

Bigger the battery the more you pay.

Still need the Electricity in the National Grid unless producing your own, 

but yesterday seemingly had a record set in the UK with Renewables.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-40198567 

 

..........

OT, 

but i heard this on the radio this morning on heating homes and it sounded interesting.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40188414 

9 hours ago, Aspman said:

I wonder how long before they add a CO2 generation tax to electric cars?

Bigger the battery the more you pay.

 

But if you only charge from renewables, as you can with some suppliers, CO2 would only be the install CO2 and not operational.

1 hour ago, Awayoffski said:

Still need the Electricity in the National Grid unless producing your own, 

but yesterday seemingly had a record set in the UK with Renewables.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-40198567 

 

..........

OT, 

but i heard this on the radio this morning on heating homes and it sounded interesting.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40188414 

 

Great news.  Keep ratcheting it up.

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

But if you only charge from renewables, as you can with some suppliers, CO2 would only be the install CO2 and not operational.

 

That's the rational point of view, not the HMRC POV.

On 6/8/2017 at 19:10, lol-lol said:

 

But if you only charge from renewables, as you can with some suppliers, CO2 would only be the install CO2 and not operational.

 

21 hours ago, Aspman said:

 

That's the rational point of view, not the HMRC POV.

That's not rational, that's denial. There is no "pool of renewable electricity" for you to draw on, so unless you have private PV and wind and only charge at home, if you use electricity from a "renewable supplier" then someone else has to use fossil fuel electricity for whatever they're doing.

On 08/06/2017 at 18:59, Aspman said:

I wonder how long before they add a CO2 generation tax to electric cars?

Bigger the battery the more you pay.

There are other upsides it seems 

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1110911_renault-plans-huge-energy-storage-plant-using-old-zoe-electric-car-battery-packs

On 6/6/2017 at 22:48, Ryeman said:

.....more an indication where things are headed, for me.

Batterys can't be stopped 

I agree with you that batteries can't be stopped  but the source of the electricity might be.

That would be a Western World problem then, 

because Pumps supplying the liquid and gas fuels require electricity, then where people buy fuels, Tills, ATM's etc, then the places that they drice and there are traffic lights etc etc needed.

 

Actually so much Electricity needs generating from Gas & Oil to produce Road Fuels. Aero / Marine Fuels 

& Petro Chemicals to manufacture vehicles.

Power Stations that are at Cracking Plants like at Grangemouth are bigger than required to power a city.

http://ineos.com/big-boats 

 

Mixed sources of energy required to power vehicles by location and circumstances and UK cities maybe do not need polluting family sized ICE's with a solo commuter in them.

UK Government might have things on it's mind for the next wee while that has them forgetting about lowering emissions, 

well until the law / courts remind them.

Big fines coming the UK's way if they do not meet what they signed up to.

 

 

Edited 10 June, 20179 yr by Awayoffski

22 hours ago, KenONeill said:

 

That's not rational, that's denial. There is no "pool of renewable electricity" for you to draw on, so unless you have private PV and wind and only charge at home, if you use electricity from a "renewable supplier" then someone else has to use fossil fuel electricity for whatever they're doing.

 

The amount of renewable energy generated is growing by double digit percentage per year and storage capacity in battery both in vehicles and in static battery banks each year.   

https://www.iea.org/newsroom/news/2016/october/iea-raises-its-five-year-renewable-growth-forecast-as-2015-marks-record-year.html

Edited 10 June, 20179 yr by lol-lol

On 09/06/2017 at 19:49, KenONeill said:

 

That's not rational, that's denial. There is no "pool of renewable electricity" for you to draw on, so unless you have private PV and wind and only charge at home, if you use electricity from a "renewable supplier" then someone else has to use fossil fuel electricity for whatever they're doing.

I think I've read that at times the wholesale electricity price goes to almost zero if there's oversupply from renewables. In those times I guess a lot of people could use that renewable electricity through the grid to charge their cars. In 10-20 years' I wonder if we'll have cars connected to the grid buffering the renewables' input based on our expected mileage the next day.

38 minutes ago, wonkyewok said:

I think I've read that at times the wholesale electricity price goes to almost zero if there's oversupply from renewables. In those times I guess a lot of people could use that renewable electricity through the grid to charge their cars. In 10-20 years' I wonder if we'll have cars connected to the grid buffering the renewables' input based on our expected mileage the next day.

 

Nissan are already on that "road".  There is some loss in both the charging and feeding back ie the process is currently only 90% efficient.

 

The key level is where there is enough renewable to actually mean the nuclear base load could be wound back and then that should kick in the need for for battery storage and other energy storage like more hydro-kenetic such as Dinorwig.  2 GW pump storage ie about 5% of the entire UK power requirement for nothing to full power in 20s and can keep running through the peak times but we could do a few more of these...

 

 

The recycling of 'used' batteries as home storage has barely begun and in Australia I can see our being totally self sufficient (off grid) within 10 years (in theory at my age).

U.S. experience with battery degradation etc

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1110881_how-much-is-a-replacement-chevy-bolt-ev-electric-car-battery

10 hours ago, Ryeman said:

The recycling of 'used' batteries as home storage has barely begun and in Australia I can see our being totally self sufficient (off grid) within 10 years (in theory at my age).

U.S. experience with battery degradation etc

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1110881_how-much-is-a-replacement-chevy-bolt-ev-electric-car-battery

 

My boss's view and aims........

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/b/ee528779-e06a-46ac-acf7-d66219a4b16e

 

 

 

More on the ICE version -

http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1111072_2018-hyundai-kona-a-four-minute-first-drive