Tyre wear and camber

[Mike Austin]

I had to buy a new front offside tyre today due to wear on the inside - after just 12,500 miles. I usually get about 17,000 miles. There was hardly any noticeable asymmetric wear on the front nearside tyre. I had the tracking checked and it was fine. I have roughly checked the camber using straight edges and a level and it appears that the nearside is more-or-less vertical while the offside is leaning maybe 10mm in (measured at the rim). What can be done about this? How much can the sub frame be moved to accommodate asymmetry?

[vindaloo]

Get a full 4 wheel alignment done. Use that as the basis for any tweaks. Whilst you are at it, get the console bushes checked.

[Breezy_Pete]

The aluminium consoles, which bolt to the subframe to support it, are mounted to the body/chassis by M12 bolts (2 each side) which go through 17mm dia. clearance holes in the consoles. So each console can move 5mm fore-and-aft or 5mm in/out, or some combination of the two, relative to the body, with the constraint that they're also bolted to each other via the subframe. Not sure how much clearance there is on the console holes for the (2-off M10) subframe bolts, can check later. (11.5mm dia holes in the consoles for the M10 subframe /steering rack bolts).

 

I guess in your case someone has removed the O/S console (for bush replacement, or total replacement) and put it back at a position a bit outboard of where it was, pushing the middle of the wheel out via the wishbone/balljoint.

Edited 30 June, 2017 by Wino
New measurement

[Mike Austin]

Thanks for your replies.

The car has done nearly 120K miles. I had the console bushes replaced at 73345 miles. Since then, I have got through a pair of front tyres from 60758-78510=17752 miles, 78510-90054=11544 miles, 90054-107345=17291 miles and lastly 107345-119786=12441 miles. There was one damaged tyre replaced at 68830 miles.

Although the history is not entirely consistent, the last two sets lasted 17291 and 12441 miles - both being a long time after the console bush replacement. I had the offside CV boot replaced at 92143 miles and I had new front discs at 102033 miles. Can console bushes 'move around' due to such work?

[rum4mo]

Console bushes will not move around, but if they are the old voided version, they can end up tearing and that give the TCA more freedom of movement in directions that it should not be able to move in, so check that the console bushes are "good" then get a proper four wheel alignment carried out.

[Mike Austin]

What is a 'proper' four wheel alignment? When I had my tracking checked yesterday, it involved attaching measuring equipment to all four wheels. Was this 'proper'?

[vindaloo]

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=5878

 

4 wheel alignment or "alignment" implies measuring all wheel angles rather than just the front toe-in or toe-out. Can be helpful in showing if something's bent.

[Mike Austin]

3 hours ago, vindaloo said:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=5878

 

4 wheel alignment or "alignment" implies measuring all wheel angles rather than just the front toe-in or toe-out. Can be helpful in showing if something's bent.

Thanks. That was interesting. What I had done was not accurate only because the rear tyres were used to hang the instrumentation, not the rims. So the toe is probably OK but the camber is clearly not right. I could book it in for a Hunter Alignment, but if the camber cannot get adjusted suitably, it would be £45 down the drain. I need to check what they can do before booking it in.

[vindaloo]

Initially it's more about gaining information. Whilst it's true some angles can't be adjusted (rear), there are tolerances at play that could ameliorate any issues at the front.

 

It's not so much £30-£50 wasted but £30-£50 invested in getting better tyre life and spending less time wandering around near tyre fitters.

Edited 2 July, 2017 by vindaloo

[rum4mo]

I completely agree with what vindaloo has written, anyway, when I was getting my wife's old Polo sorted out, it was more like £90+ for a full four wheel realignment, maybe equipment has changed and prices have dropped?

 

The other thing about getting a car set up correctly alignment wise is, it will "feel/drive" a lot better, there used to be a lot of "your having a laugh getting four wheel alignment carried out on a car with a fixed rear end - just get toeing done it will fix everything!"  - but, firstly checking the end allows you to know if that is still okay or bent, then the front to moved to align with the fixed rear end and the camber equalised side to side, so not really a waste of time and money.

 

I just wish that I had the commitment to get my cars checked out every maybe two years - before things start costing me extra money.

[Mike Austin]

3 hours ago, vindaloo said:

Initially it's more about gaining information. Whilst it's true some angles can't be adjusted (rear), there are tolerances at play that could ameliorate any issues at the front.

 

It's not so much £30-£50 wasted but £30-£50 invested in getting better tyre life and spending less time wandering around near tyre fitters.

For me, information is of value if I can do something with it. £45+ will not be wasted if the alignment can be corrected. That is what I hope to find out before spending the money. At the moment, I estimate that I have wasted maybe £40 on unnecessary tyre wear over about 42,000 miles. Bearing in mind the high mileage of 120k, it is debatable whether there will be a net saving before the car's end of life. As it happens, I have no worries about how the car drives and handles at the monent. It is only the asymmetric tyre wear.

[Mike Austin]

I have checked with a local VW specialist that has the Hunter Alignment equipment. It seems that the alignment and camber adjustment via the sub frame is going to cost £80+VAT, so it will pay for itself when I have reached about 180k miles (or 4-5 years). That is assuming it can be exactly balanced. I don't imagine I will still have the car then, so I guess it is best left as it is.

[stevobeavo]

I used to get between 25-27k out of a set of tyres on my standard vrs. That's was a mixture of driving and quite a lot of having fun in corners. I would have thought your mpi would get similar?

 

Proper alignment is worth it imo and it makes a big difference to the way a car drives.

 

 

[Mike Austin]

8 hours ago, stevobeavo said:

I used to get between 25-27k out of a set of tyres on my standard vrs. That's was a mixture of driving and quite a lot of having fun in corners. I would have thought your mpi would get similar?

 

Proper alignment is worth it imo and it makes a big difference to the way a car drives.

 

 

I get that mileage from my rear tyres, but I have never achieved it from the front tyres on any car that I have had over the last 35 years (2 Fabia 2.0i and 3 Golf GTIs). The very first set of fronts were changed at 19,900 miles, which obviously included some running in. They were Dunlop SP2020. I now run Firestone TZ300.

Do you swap your tyres round?