As the name suggests i had a MY17 citigo as a courtesy car today while my MK2 octy was in for a diag at the dealers.

 

Must say it's not a bad little car to be honest, the ASG gearbox it's weakest link; not suited to the car at all really. like the toys it had, the best being cruise control (yes my octy has it being an L & K) the engine is pretty good and refined enough, and quite perky as well.

 

MPG was o.k at 42.7 but i can get close to that on motorway trips in the octy (will improve though as it only 1500 miles on the clock)

 

Would i buy one? yes if i didn't need the size of car i have, but with the manual box, can't see why VAG have not developed an DSG for the Mii, Up and citigo, as that would transform the car for the better.

Pleased you got a try in ASG; as i've written previously its not a perfect automatic gearbox and usually would seem 'alien' to many drivers who are used to the latest tech like DSG etc... But actually, when you get used to driving the ASG box (lets say a week) then you will adjust your driving style .... like drivers should do with any car.... you can then start to enjoy how the engineers developed the ASG with the Citigo.

 

The DSG hasn't been put into the Citigo for a number of reasons IMHO, cost most probably being one, secondly the ASG is a lighter box and suited to the design brief of the Citigo/UP/Mii. There was rumours on the UP! GTi that it would be offered with the DSG... but i think its doubtful and would make the UP! GTi crazy monies

 

Our ASG is now 3.5years old and covered in excess of 54,000miles. It's been flawless ownership and driving experience so far.

Just how much lighter really is that ASG over a DSG i wonder.

Anyway the Awesome VW Group could do many things and do when they want and there will be customers for a good handling, nippy automatic that is not a Polo, Fabia, Ibiza, but maybe that is the issue, they like people buying that class / size of car and can get away with a just good enough and that is all they are getting Up!mIICitigo.

 

Awesome, and not that heavy really. 

 

5 hours ago, Citigouk said:

Pleased you got a try in ASG; as i've written previously its not a perfect automatic gearbox and usually would seem 'alien' to many drivers who are used to the latest tech like DSG etc... But actually, when you get used to driving the ASG box (lets say a week) then you will adjust your driving style .... like drivers should do with any car.... you can then start to enjoy how the engineers developed the ASG with the Citigo.

 

The DSG hasn't been put into the Citigo for a number of reasons IMHO, cost most probably being one, secondly the ASG is a lighter box and suited to the design brief of the Citigo/UP/Mii. There was rumours on the UP! GTi that it would be offered with the DSG... but i think its doubtful and would make the UP! GTi crazy monies

 

Our ASG is now 3.5years old and covered in excess of 54,000miles. It's been flawless ownership and driving experience so far.

Being an MOT tester i see a lot of semi auto gearboxes, so know that when they about to change gear to ease of the throttle slightly for a much smoother change, but i still don't  think the ASG is good box, DSG is not perfect either but is better.

 

Maybe i'm getting old (i've only just turned 40) but i much prefer a proper automatic or a proper manual.

You see lots, but do you drive any that are less than 3 years old, the last 6 speed wet, the new 7 speed wet or just the 7 speed dry DSG's.

6 hours ago, Awayoffski said:

You see lots, but do you drive any that are less than 3 years old, the last 6 speed wet, the new 7 speed wet or just the 7 speed dry DSG's.

Yes i do drive lots of them, DSG's and semi auto's are getting more and more common here in london, and i think the new crop of DSG's are really good, but it's just me give me a proper old school automatic anyday or a manual. It's what i grew up with.

8 hours ago, Ju1ian1001 said:

Yes i do drive lots of them, DSG's and semi auto's are getting more and more common here in london, and i think the new crop of DSG's are really good, but it's just me give me a proper old school automatic anyday or a manual. It's what i grew up with.

With say <180PS i get you feeling on manual gearbox..... but when you are >220PS its much better suited to the newer style automatic.

 

With the Citigo ASG having a tremendous 75PS..... its ASG box IMHO is perfectly reasonable offering.

 

ps. I thought MOT testers just do the test at the MOT station.... not have a jolly around the city  

6 hours ago, Citigouk said:

With say <180PS i get you feeling on manual gearbox..... but when you are >220PS its much better suited to the newer style automatic.

 

With the Citigo ASG having a tremendous 75PS..... its ASG box IMHO is perfectly reasonable offering.

 

ps. I thought MOT testers just do the test at the MOT station.... not have a jolly around the city  

Ha ha, no i do get to do other work sometimes.

I had a Ibiza Cupra that was fitted with a DSG gearbox?

They were never really classed as too expensive?

& they are not just in 140,150,160,170,180 ps models. they are in budget ones from 75, 90, 105,120 ps engines.

 

As to traditional torque converter or even CVT's or other automated manuals there are plenty around in small vehicles that do a good job, 

but i an finding it hard to thing of any especially good Traditional Autos with 4,5 or 6 speed that are in cars with smaller then say a 140ps engine in the past 10 years.

(I have owned or driven plenty of them and some are no better than auto's from the 1970 / 80s.

4 hours ago, Awayoffski said:

& they are not just in 140,150,160,170,180 ps models. they are in budget ones from 75, 90, 105,120 ps engines.

 

As to traditional torque converter or even CVT's or other automated manuals there are plenty around in small vehicles that do a good job, 

but i an finding it hard to thing of any especially good Traditional Autos with 4,5 or 6 speed that are in cars with smaller then say a 140ps engine in the past 10 years.

(I have owned or driven plenty of them and some are no better than auto's from the 1970 / 80s.

Tis true any small or medium size engine gets dsg style or semi auto gearbox's, only large capacity stuff is getting a proper automatic gearbox these days, with as many as 9 gears.

Or even the likes of a 1.4 petrols in a Jeep / Fiat might get an auto with 9 gears.

I think the transmission in my Hyundai i10 automatic could be described as "a proper automatic" .. its a four speed torque converter.  Not saying the i10 auto is the best in the world  (quite the opposite in some respects) but if you want a smooth changing auto in a small car then it serves a purpose.  Had it six years and no faults.  Not very economical though (32mpg round town).

My Kia Picanto 1.1 4 speed auto was equally as good over the 7 years / 26,000 miles i had it, and it went Auto testing, it did 42 mpg from each gallon in the tank over the time i had it when just being driven as it was designed to. (special days it used more fuel.)

the Saxo 1.4 16Valve 4 speed Auto i had from 2001 until 3 years ago was great & it went Auto testing, and my 14 year old JImny 4 Speed Automatic is great after its 54,000 miles.

All did the job, change gear, had or have a Overdrive Off button, and are as smooth as a 9 speed ZF in a Fiat - Chrysler.

 

If all you are doing is going from 0-80 mph or so then 4 gears seem to get a small / light car there just as good as a 8 or 9 gear one. 

just maybe not giving the Co2  g/km emissions during EU Testing as the manufacturers want,  but funnily they still needed to cheat those it appears, 

but that is just as did VW with 6 or 7 speed Automated Manuals.

Edited 21 August, 20178 yr by Awayoffski

On 20/08/2017 at 01:12, Ju1ian1001 said:

Yes i do drive lots of them, DSG's and semi auto's are getting more and more common here in london, and i think the new crop of DSG's are really good, but it's just me give me a proper old school automatic anyday or a manual. It's what i grew up with.

Having had the privilege of owning and driving several thousand miles in cars with the DQ200 7-speed dry clutch DSG and the ZF 8-speed auto over the last 3 years or so I would be happy to own another car with either of these transmissions in the future.

 

There's not much to split them IMHO. Surprisingly the torque-converter equipped ZF is a little more aggressive when pressing on. Great for emerging from busy road junctions but the DSG can be a little more civilised. When not in a rush the gear changes are virtually undetectable in both, the rev counter needle dropping being the only real clue that a gear change has occurred.

We have a Citigo ASG, my wife uses it for predominantly town driving rush hour commute. It has now done 16000 at an avarage of 49.9 mpg. It's a great little car. She will take it on longer 100+ mile drives as opposed to mine.

As for the gearbox, it's great once you learn how to use it and can be driven very smoothly.

the only other car I have used with an automated clutch was the mk1 Audi R8 GT and that you had to work at to get a smooth ride, but easy to pick up.

Traditional 4 speed torque converters in small capacity engines were the norm a few years back and while they were quite functional there were associated economy and performance penalties especially in stop/start traffic conditions where they did their best work relieving the driver 'work rate' and their worst work chewing up fuel.

Successive developments such as gear drive lock at higher speed/revs improved economy meant there was little difference on open highway runs to manual options. The Mazda 'SkyActive' 6 speed torque converter box available in most models uses gear drive locking in all ratios so a high proportion of drive in real use is direct to assist economy. I'm sure most modern ZF boxes do this as well without the marketing tag.

As far as I'm aware the 8/9 ratios in the smaller engine Jeep boxes are not highly regarded and I'm sure I've read that higher ratios were hardly ever engaged as they require speeds of 130kph or more, so pointless in the UK and Australia.

CVT boxes in small cars do give good economy and are excellent for normal driving although there are complaints about droning and when driving with a bit of verve.  Some of the ratios are a weird as well with the worst example being the Honda Jazz where cruising at 70 mph in manual top gear is close to 4k rpm and the CVT version is about half the revs, that is a huge disparity.

The point being there are a lot of options out there and it is up to the purchaser to test drive as many as possible to find the one that suits them.

It is worth noting that VW Australia only imported the manual UP! into Australia because they deemed the auto unsuitable for our market, a interesting decision as more than 80% of car sales are autos and the UP! was eventually withdrawn due to poor sales (despite excellent reviews).

Generally speaking many Australians have been brought up with torque converter boxes and prefer their characteristics and do not like having to 'adapt' their driving style to alternative auto boxes.