I have a 1.8 tsi estate first registered in June 2011. How can I tell if the engine was manufactured with the revised tensioner? 

 

Thanks

It won't be the latest version K.

 

That was current from about end of first quarter 2012.  There should be an inspection plug which gives you some limited view of the tensioner and the no. of ratchet positions it is extended to, without removing all the covers.  There is TPI guidance on what is acceptable. Preventive replacement is a far less of a shock than a replacement engine. Although still not cheap when replacing the chain and lower cover and other required parts.

Edited 10 September, 20178 yr by TheClient

Thanks for the quick response. I saw on another post here...... 

that there were also revisions in cw 20, 2010. Do you know what that means? 

 

 

If you want some extra reading try this thread on for fit.  Warning: it may make you feel depressed (or maybe happy on the basis nothing has yet happened to yours.)  Suffice to say,  the tensioner is a clear cut vulnerability though without ifs and buts,  that could cost a lot.  IMO it is not a question of if, it is a question of when.

 

Timing chains were updated later and beyond 1st quarter 2012 too.

 

Then there is the piston scraper ring design that can lead to excessive oil consumption, and ultimately engine failure if not dealt with, as referred to in the thread you linked.  Doesn't seem to affect everyone though.

 

 

Hmmm... sobering reading!

 

My Superb has 62000 miles and does also burn some oil but below the 'cut off' of 500ml/1000km.

 

I think I have 3 options:-

 

1) Risk continuing with the car in it's current state and hope the chain holds out and the oil consumption does not go up

2) Replace the timing chain 

3) Replace the timing chain and sort out the oil consumption with new rings etc.

4) Replace the car!

 

With option 2 and  3, any idea of likely cost for an independent VAG specialist to complete?

 

Thanks for all the help.

 

 

 

On 2) timing chain and tensioner and other bits and pieces is usually ball park about £650 inc. vat from a specialist for complete job. More from a dealer. That is assuming the Superb is no more difficult for access (affecting labour) than the Oct II.

 

On 3) The Skoda TPI on the issue recommends new pistons, rings and con rods. The extensive parts list are required because the ring design is different and requires new pistons and pin diameter is different.  From memory, from other posts, it is is ballpark £3.5k and up job and due to being a pretty big job with specific parts,  job you need to find either a dealer or an independent specialist or rebuilder of some experience.  

 

Some have chanced a temporary repair of just rings in severe cases where they wanted to get out of the car and have it running. But it is not recommended, as the problem will recur and in your case it doesn't yet sound totally critical levels. But Skoda's 500ml / 1000km is a pretty high consumption threshold in itself. Some would say half that would probably be a more realistic indication of a serious problem.

 

Fixed servicing at least every 10k miles/12 mths  is anecdotally helpful as a preventative strategy. It certainly does no harm. May be too late in your case though but would help contain the problem, if at all possible. And a vw502.00 time and distance 5W40 oil may reduce consumption slightly. Edit: (if you are not already running it).

 

Edit: PPS. "Revisions in CW 20, 2010" will mean that there was an updated revision of the tensioner that replaced all preceding parts in production from week 20 of 2010. But the tensioner is a multiply superseded item, so even though your tensioner will not be the oldest,  all the non current versions were/are still subject to failure but probably better than the very early versions with the spring clip retainer.

 

Edited 11 September, 20178 yr by TheClient

Ouch!  

 

Looks like I may need to move the car on - shame as we love it.......  £4k plus is probably not worth the investment with the car only worth circa £5K.  

 

I bought the car from a Skoda dealer and still have an extended warranty on it that expires next March but feel we're driving round in a ticking time bomb and I know Skoda wouldn't do anything unless the timing chain broke / the consumption goes over 500ml / 1000km.  Also, looking at the 2 threads it seems to depend on the dealer as to how easy it is to get Skoda to pay.

 

So, final question (hopefully!), if we stick to a Superb, which engine do we go for? - quite like the performance of the 1.8 tsi - looks like the 170 bhp tdi offers similar?

 

Thanks again for your help

 

 

You just keep the car and extend the Skoda Warranty which is a VW Underwritten Warranty, which they sell you and the engines have 'known issues' known by VW, Skoda, SEAT & Audi.

Dealerships fix cars they are not the decider of Warranty Provider paying out.

Thanks for the additional advice Headinawayoffski.  You're right about the dealership and if we decide to keep the car would definitely extend the warranty again, we've just lost a bit of confidence in the car and from reading the other threads Skoda will always look for reasons not to pay.... For example I have had one service done by a VAG Specialist as opposed to main dealer - shouldn't make any difference but suspect they would use this to not pay out?

 

 

I not only suspect i know, but then EU legislation has a Free Market and an answer to that type of taking the pith and illegal practices as would a court in England/Wales Scotland or Northern Ireland.

So you play the barstewards at their own game, Service Schedule / Guidelines followed, VAT Registered Qualified Technicians using OEM / Factory Approved parts, 

Warranty Purchased and if they want to be bollshy you get an Independent Experts Report carried out seeing as VW Group seem to lack Honest ones, or the ones they employ are 'Tommy', Deaf Dumb & Blind with no long term memory.

With your dealer provided warranty you are in a slightly stronger position than some. A lot of the threads where difficulty is experienced relates to trying to get Skoda UK and/or dealer contribute through goodwill processes. Completely discretionary.   Success is variable and very rare after vehicle is 5 years and older.  

 

Being an approved vw / skoda dealer provided warranty, hopefully it is worth the paper it is printed on. I personally don't have a lot of faith in 3rd party warranties as a general rule though, even if they are used by skoda / vw group as a used warranty. 

 

Did you review for exclusions and specific service requirements to keep policy in force?  If not, maybe worth taking a look.

 

EU Block exemption rules certainly operate on sale of NEW cars and franchise servicing. I'm less clear on their application on sale of used cars with a warranty policy. 

 

There are a couple of interesting paragraphs in the policy document.....

 

"We will not pay for failure caused by deterioration of a covered component commensurate with its age and mileage. This includes, but is not limited to, gradual loss of engine compression requiring the repair of valves or rings and the gradual increase in the oil consumption due to normal operating functions."

 

and

 

"We will not pay for Design Faults and Recalls – If any components of your vehicle have an inherent design fault or is recalled by its manufacturer, the component which is the subject of the design fault or recall is not covered by this warranty."

 

Looks like they could wriggle out of claims for both timing chain and failed rings - What do you think?

 

 

1 hour ago, Skoda789 said:

There are a couple of interesting paragraphs in the policy document.....

 

"We will not pay for failure caused by deterioration of a covered component commensurate with its age and mileage. This includes, but is not limited to, gradual loss of engine compression requiring the repair of valves or rings and the gradual increase in the oil consumption due to normal operating functions."

 

and

 

"We will not pay for Design Faults and Recalls – If any components of your vehicle have an inherent design fault or is recalled by its manufacturer, the component which is the subject of the design fault or recall is not covered by this warranty."

 

Looks like they could wriggle out of claims for both timing chain and failed rings - What do you think?

 

 

So they don't pay out if parts wear out (even in what most people would consider a low mileage), or parts which were incorrectly designed or presumably if the user is negligent such as filling your engine with water instead of oil.  So what exactly does the warranty cover?

Quite.

 

That is what I am always left wondering with third party warranties and the cover they provide.    If you apply all the wriggle out clauses to any situation, what actually is covered... And you never really know where you stand until you put it to the test. They could be pragmatic and only use the wriggle out clauses in extreme cases, like a vehicle at 250k miles or they could leave you stranded with a relatively new car at low / moderate mileage.  Hardly the clear cut black and white cover you might expect.

 

A few points.

 

1) I would say the piston  / ring oil usage problem on the EA888 series 1,8 tsi engine is not normal operating usage or wear.  I would also say it not gradual, once it starts (the oil control ring clogs) it can get worse relatively quickly. Often, initially compression is also not the issue as it is the oil control ring and surplus oil in the combustion chamber and on cylinder walls that is the problem eventually leading to further problems that ultimately might impact compression.  I think, put to the test with an industry expert looking at a 70k mile vehicle with service history, that should not fit into their definition of gradual engine oil usage......if you had to argue that. 

 

But they could of course take the other more literal view of their policy wording.

 

2) I can understand the limit for not covering items on recall. Makes sense for a warranty provider not to cover that - it ought to be met as a statutory duty by the car manufacturer / importer.  The design fault clause is one I've heard mentioned before and seems incredibly broad (unfair?).  Potentially both of the faults that you could be concerned by are arguably design faults. However, VWAG have held out on ever admitting that in those words.

 

If the warranty provider chose to apply the design fault clause, to a case such as yours where one of the 2 possible faults causes a failure, it would be an admission from their own sponsored warranty provider that they are design faults in these engines. Not a very good PR statement especially having taken no proactive action to recall or resolve and denied throughout.

 

Further, it would also leave your Skoda selling dealer with a potential case against them under consumer rights act which requires the complainant, after a period of  6 months, to prove the fault was inherent at purchase (before 6 months, it is the selling dealer to prove it wasn't).  With a report from a warranty provider saying they refuse repair support because it was a inherent design fault, that would seem to go someway to support that case and thereby stitch up their own retailer. Not a good way to support your dealer network selling their cars.

 

Overall, given it is a VW affiliated and sponsored policy, I would doubt they would apply the wriggle out clauses as literally as written even though, on the face of it, they do provide an out. Unfortunately, the only way you'll know for sure about how they apply the terms is to be in a position to actually test the process.  

 

All my own views of course, you could possibly get a more experienced insight from a investigating engineer experienced in providing technical support for disputed warranty claims or similar. 

 

 

Thanks for all the advice on this.  I'll continue to monitor the oil consumption and also get the timing chain checked to see it's position.  

 

If the oil consumption goes above 500ml /1000 km I'll start the battle with Skoda!

 

Thanks again

 

 

On 10/09/2017 at 19:46, TheClient said:

On 10/09/2017 at 18:13, TheClient said:

It won't be the latest version K.

 

That was current from about end of first quarter 2012.  There should be an inspection plug which gives you some limited view of the tensioner and the no. of ratchet positions it is extended to, without removing all the covers.  There is TPI guidance on what is acceptable. Preventive replacement is a far less of a shock than a replacement engine. Although still not cheap when replacing the chain and lower cover and other required parts.

I bought a Skoda Superb 1.8TSI MT on 2019 and its a 2012 January manufactured model with 72k kms on the odo .But when i searched for the service history in Skoda workshop the service advisor told me that there was a problem of misfire and coolant leak which caused a warped cylinder head in the engine at 54k kms on the odo, so they replaced the whole engine with a brand new  base engine on 2017 . I was very worried that is it a good buy or not but then i reasiled then i nearly  got a new engine which has ran only 18k kms . I think i am lucky to get this car with this replaced engine. What do u think?? 

Does this mean that as i got the engine replace with a new one on 2017 the engine will come with updated timing tensioners and updated piston rings and con rods for reducing the oil consumption issue beacuse i think they were updated by Skoda at that time???

Can anyone tell when did the Gen2 engine got its updated tensioners and piston rings?? I am pretty sure that Skoda updated these parts in Gen2 EA888 1.8TSI but when???

And ami I safe with this new engine?? 

 

It depends who the engine was supplied by and when manufactured, but assuming Skoda genuine supplied long block and 2017, then very likely.  All the mods were during 2012 from memory, which was towards the end of the 2013 model life. That said, I do not know the supply chain or dealer service approaches in India so have based this more on what happens in UK / Europe.

On 16/09/2020 at 23:24, TheClient said:

It depends who the engine was supplied by and when manufactured, but assuming Skoda genuine supplied long block and 2017, then very likely.  All the mods were during 2012 from memory, which was towards the end of the 2013 model life. That said, I do not know the supply chain or dealer service approaches in India so have based this more on what happens in UK / Europe.

 

This is the engine number which was replaced in my car. It shows that it was made in 2017.

I replaced my engine at an authorised Skoda Worskshop.

I think it was imported from Germany as the engine code word and other things are written in German and not in English. 

It can be as New, as good as New.

VW have a refurbishing plant.  The Blocks are reused not scrapped, the heads are reused not scrapped. Unless the head or block arrive as scrap obviously.

Plenty 1.4TSI / TFSI Twincharger engines replaced were refurbs and not new, but they come out the crate looking identical new or refurbed.

Baunatal

Kessel

Hesse

Germany. They remanufacture lots there. 

9 hours ago, e-Roottoot said:

It can be as New, as good as New.

VW have a refurbishing plant.  The Blocks are reused not scrapped, the heads are reused not scrapped. Unless the head or block arrive as scrap obviously.

Plenty 1.4TSI / TFSI Twincharger engines replaced were refurbs and not new, but they come out the crate looking identical new or refurbed.

Baunatal

Kessel

Hesse

Germany. They remanufacture lots there. 

Yes but it was replaced in an authorised Skoda Workshop and they said that the engine was manfactured new on May 2017 and fittted in my car on July 2017. 

 

Hello, 

 

I have purchased skoda superb 1.8tsi cdaa engine. It says on the engine that it was built in March 2013 - it is 2nd gen of ea888 right? Does the timing chain need to be replaced? Would they check it in skoda as it is booked for extra scope inspection? 

10 hours ago, david9651995 said:

Hello, 

 

I have purchased skoda superb 1.8tsi cdaa engine. It says on the engine that it was built in March 2013 - it is 2nd gen of ea888 right? Does the timing chain need to be replaced? Would they check it in skoda as it is booked for extra scope inspection? 

Yes you should get it checked in the workshop.Its very easy as you just have to open the inspection cover on the timing cover. I think u must have got the updated tensioner. But get it checked and confirm. And what is the mileage of your engine?

Edited 21 September, 20205 yr by SuperbRaj09