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Backlash in Gearbox


Ronn

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Hi,

is Gear Backlash on Skoda Citigo's a common issue?

When visiting my son & driving away, he says my Citigo Gearbox is very Noisy as if there is a lot of Gear Backlash.

(My Citigo is only 4 months old).

 

If it is a common problem with Citigo's, is the condition detrimental to the life of the Gearbox & do Dealerships rectify the problem Free of Charge under Warranty?

 

thank you.

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Sometimes gearbox is noisy when engine idling. I guess it's characteristics as 3 cylinder engine doesn't run too smoothly. So I'd say nothing to worry about. 

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No, I don't mean vehicle stationary with engine idling.

I refer to 'take up' of drive by the Gearbox when starting to move.

There appears to be too much 'Play', too much Backlash in the Gearbox Gears.

I can hear a definite 'Clunk' from the Gearbox drive gears.

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Well, I can.

As a retired engineer who spent all my working life in the Aerospace Industry, I can tell you all Gear Power Trains have an optimum Backlash figure.

All Gear Trains need some Backlash designed into them or else you get Gear 'binding' which absorbs power & creates bearing wear.

BUT, this Backlash must be controlled & certainly you should not Design Backlash into a Power Gear Train that creates 'clunks' & noise in power 'uptake' & general operation.

Another source of excess Backlash in a Gear Train in poor assembly.

The correct shimming has to be carried out during assembly to optimise the desired Design results.

So, yes, I can tell you what the optimum Gear Train Backlash should be & how to achieve it.

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On 19/10/2017 at 21:05, Ronn said:

Is Gear Backlash on Skoda Citigo's a common issue?

When visiting my son & driving away, he says my Citigo Gearbox is very Noisy as if there is a lot of Gear Backlash. (My Citigo is only 4 months old).

If it is a common problem with Citigo's, is the condition detrimental to the life of the Gearbox & do Dealerships rectify the problem Free of Charge under Warranty?

 

Mine is often noisy when taking up drive between gear changes if I feed the clutch and revs in a bit quickly. Worse still is the very pronounced chattering and shunting when driving in reverse. I suspect that the cushioning springs on the clutch friction plate are not up to the job of acting as a torsional damper. The part itself is not expensive but the labour charge to remove and refit the gearbox to change the clutch certainly is.

 

I raised this as a concern at the second service last October. The dealer was adamant that the problem was present on all their Citigo stock - essentially a "they all do it, Sir" response. I pointed out that until 3 months prior to the second service mine certainly didn't do it, Sir and that I would very much prefer if to reverted to refraining from doing it in the future, Sir. The dealer said they would contact the Skoda Technical Support department for advice but predictably I heard nothing further from them.

 

The third service is due any time now and I will raise the issue again as it has not gone away and by my estimation has probably got slightly worse.

Edited by ronime
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It is what it is. I'm not going to loose my night sleep thinking "issue", which isn't issue really. :)

 

I don't work in the aerospace industry, but I have had 3 Citigo. All do the same. Gearbox is a bit noise sometimes. 

Edited by Emil
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The problem is lack of believable feedback. If the dealer said the gearbox is making some noise but is not about to fail, compare it to this demonstrator model, and the guarantee protects you too, then owner could relax. Uninformed receptionist stating nothing on the job card and everything ticked ok does not inspire customers.

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2 hours ago, Ronn said:

What a throwaway comment!

 

Do you work for VW?

Or maybe, have VW shares

Thanks. I may ask another opinion.

 

You think that everyone who is satisfied with Citigo must work for VW? :D

 

Just an example, have you ever noticed that oils in these moder gearboxes are thin as brake fluid? Even when cold. No wonder if gearbox gives some noise. 

 

You really think it's a problem, or are you just chatting?

  • Haha 1
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The astonishing thing with your comment is;

'you haven't had an issue with transmission so,

Why Would Anybody Else Have An Issue With It'.

very strange attitude I thought.

☺️☺️☺️☺️

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Just look at the Pinned & Posted threads on the Citigo Gearbox, Manual / ASG.

Then a internet search on the Up!, Mii, Citigo gearboxes.

 

People do go on forums or the internet to complain or just to seek advice on issues or comment.

No good reviews though on the UP!MiiCitigo gearboxes are there, 

Service Campaigns, Warranty Repairs, 'Update / upgrades, They all do that', 'Never heard of that before.' from Dealerships & Customer Services employees.

 

Comes down to VW Group Designed and manufactured gearboxes just to do the job, cheap as they can and cheap as they get away with, 

and they change gear, (you hope) sometimes with noises, sometimes the driver can not get reverse or even a forward gear.

 

Seems to be how it is. Just fit for purpose, no Coconut or Goldfish as the score was not high enough.

'Vorsprung Durch Technik',   One might hope so.

Edited by Headinawayoffski
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I think I have owned 40 cars. If it matters somehow. 

 

As we are counting cars now, how many Citigos you have owned Ron?

Edited by Emil
Adding more text
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3 hours ago, Headinawayoffski said:

...

 

Comes down to VW Group Designed and manufactured gearboxes just to do the job, cheap as they can and cheap as they get away with, 

and they change gear, (you hope) sometimes with noises, sometimes the driver can not get reverse or even a forward gear.

 

...

I wonder what's wrong with those people? They buy reasonable priced car thinking it's like expensive cars just smaller? No. Size doesn't really matter a lot for the price. And car manufacturers doesn't really earn too much with these small cars. 

 

Now, how hard it can be to use manual gearbox? If you can't get gear on you just have to try again. Release and depress the clutch again. 

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Certainly not cheap RRP's or even purchase price.  Built cheap and penny / cent pinching parts. 

Hence the depreciation with them, much cheapness as used if you do not pay the asking price.

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Why shouldn't you expect good engineering from European made cars, irrespective of their price new.

This is 2017 not 1917.

Thats were the Japs & Koreans beat the Europeans hands down. They supply top quality irrespective of price.

you've got the Ford mentality 'you can have any colour as long as its Black & oh don't ask for a Radio because, you don't get one!

Of course it all had to change with Ford when the Japs took market share off them.☺️☺️☺️☺️

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You should expect it, and get it.

Why i have European Built Suzuki's, and had a European Built Kia, and might get a Czech Republic built Hyundai.

 

Even Fiat know how to build small City cars from decades of experience, VW have had problems since they were rear wheel drive and air cooled getting that right.

 

If they had gone with the Rear engine in the Up!MiiCitigo as planned originally they might have had the engineering right.

Instead they did what they did and just rushed out the front engine, front wheel drive and the rather poor gearboxes.

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Bloody hell, I heard that excuse for them years ago (about 30+ to be precise).

They can't keep on living off the reputation on the Pre War Beetle. ☺️

Everybody else has moved on.

VW build loads of Front Engine, Front Wheel Drive cars over the years since the Beetle.

I remember Front Engine JETA  in 1978/79.

They must have picked up something by now from other Manufactures if only by 'Reverse Engineering'.

That's how the Chinese found out how to build their own Migs when they fell out with the Russians in the early 1970's, they just stripped down Migs they had previously bought from Russia, photographed & measured every part.

So, VW & their fans can't still fall back on that 'old Chestnut' ☺️☺️☺️☺️

 

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Built loads, decades of experience from VW, and small capacity engines from Skoda. 

VW even bought 20 % of Suzuki to get their experience and research and knowledge of small capacity engines, Small Turbos, and Fiat R&D on Light Hybrids / Electric Turbos and Superchargers & 24 volt systems,

then the night before the Diesel Scandal broke, Suzuki bought the last shares back........

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-34275917 

?  Who lent Suzuki the Yen, was that Toyota by any chance or GM International, next day with share price rise that could be paid back,

the CEO VW North America (USA) from 2007 who was a VW Man & Boy (well he was also at Mitsubishi for a while) left VW in 2010 to head Volvo for Geely, then after ill health went to lead GM International.

Stefan Jacoby.

 

So VW have always had issues with not making or buying quality or quality controlled Chains, Chain Tensioners, Water Pumps, Fuel Pumps, Gaskets, Seals, Door Seals, Piston / Rings/ Scrapers/ etc etc

More interested in Reputation and expansion and forgetting longevity of engines.

 

Volkswagen Group, sell lots at small profits, sell too many options and pay too much to the Board Members / Union Officials / Government Officials or Politicians as well it would appear.  Then Billions in Fines /Penalties,  and Media Advertising / Lawyers.

 

Pity R&D was not as important as plastic bling / decals etc.

Edited by Headinawayoffski
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You paint a rather disturbing picture of VW as an organisation let alone one of The Boche's top 3 car manufactures.

They sound like a right load of Cowboys.

Dont think I'd trust them to Design & Manufacture a Skate Board!

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Honest as the day is long.  Only a few rogue engineers and all the seniors are deaf dumb and blind and unaware of any wrong doing.

Obviously only 2 plead guilty to fraud and other offences and International Arrest Warrants are just about innocent until proved otherwise, 

and Germany is extraditing nobody.   

Time will tell.... 

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Who claimed that Citigo is cheap car? If it was, I wouldn't touch it. I wouldn't touch Fiat 500 neither. It's from another century when it comes to handling. 

 

 

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