2009 Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI 1Z * My keys unlock and lock the car, turn the ignition on, and turn over the engine, but the engine will not start or fire up *

 

Sequence of events:

 

December 23: Columbus Navigation was stolen. No broken windows, they did something to the driver side key hole. (Dealership noticed it on first manual turn with key)

Drove the car after dealing with police and insurance.

 

December 24: Drove the car once.

 

December 25: Unlock car with key remote, tried to start the car but it only turned over, did not start. ESP error, plus " Cornering Light (AFS) Failure"

Same day, I tried the second key and it started the car. Drove about 10 meters and the ESP error vanished. Seemed like problem solved. So I changed the battery in that key that didn't start the car. Although in hindsight, I doubt it needed a new battery because it had unlocked the car.

 

December 26, 27: That second key didn't cause any trouble. All was good. Minus the hole where my Columbus used to be.

 

December 28: Started the car for 3 separate trips, no issues. The first trip was to a stereo installer for a cheap radio to cover me until Skoda dealer installs new Columbus unit. Took him about 2 mins. I drove off no problems. Fourth time, as i'm about to go to work, the 'good' key does the same ESP +AFS error again. Can't start car, but it turns. Just like the 26th. Tried the second key, still can't start the car.

 

The dashboard is on, the radio is working, the car locks and unlocks by the key remote. My car battery is tight, and less then a year old, however 61 Ah, "economy" unit which I inherited from previous owner.

 

Any help is appreciated, I can provide more info if needed. I'm thinking my keys have been remapped or reprogrammed somehow because of the stolen navigation, but I am no expert. 

Have to wonder if the ecu doesent like the after market radio or the engine imlobizer has kicked in??

I'd also have a look at the fuse box and see if any have blown?

Thanks for the reply; the car did the same thing before the radio was installed. It's actually a VW radio that didn't need any configuration to work in my car. 

 

I took a look at the fuse box in the engine bay as well as the fuses on the end of the dashboard by the steering wheel. Nothing seems to be wrong but again, I'm no expert. Nothing looks burned and nothing was dangling out of position.

 

I googled how to change the original radio, and the first thing that I learned was that it's important to disconnect the battery before removing the radio, or you could damage the electrical system. Could this be a factor? There is no chance the thief took the time to do this, as my car was the second of three that got robbed in the same night. 

 

Engine immobilizer; this was my first thought, but why did my 'good' key trigger this ? Also I've read that the immobilizer usually let's the car start and then it cuts out. Not my case as it turns over but won't start.

 

NOTE: When I turn on the ignition, I no longer hear my fuel pump prime. I know what this sounds like as I changed my fuel filter housing last week, and had to prime it 10-15 times.

Edited 28 December, 20178 yr by SkodaSponge

Got any signs of life on the dash at all like any warning lights?
Have to wonder if there is a solenoid that's not working correctly?

Edited 28 December, 20178 yr by Stuart-h

ESP error - Cornering light (AFS) Failure. Plus the normal lights before the engine fires, and additionally there are the steering wheel, sliding car, and tire pressure lights on. Nothing is flashing. Everything is solid.

 

Radio is working, ignition is on. The engine turns over but does not start. 

Update: Took it to the Skoda stealer to see what they say about it. The person we spoke to said the car's computer is not recognizing the key. They will confirm the problem by Friday.

 

As of right now; he believes the transponder code just needs to be re-synched.

 

Apparently he's seen this before, and he believes it has something to do with the transponder signal being disrupted by a cellphone. 

 

He said most likely my own, but theoretically it could be someone trying to steal my car - although, and I agree with him, had someone wanted to steal my car they would have already done so. 

 

I will write again when I hear more/get my car back.

 

Hope this helps someone in the future.

If the keys were not correct, the car would start and cut out

 

As the car is not starting at all I doubt it is a key problem

 

I would check your fuel pump, see if the engine is getting fuel

Thanks for the reply Eddie.

 

I considered the fuel pump but I don't see how the second key would have started the car without a problem the first time.. if the engine wasn't getting fuel.

 

Plus, car worked like normal for three days before it happened again.

28 minutes ago, SkodaSponge said:

Thanks for the reply Eddie.

 

I considered the fuel pump but I don't see how the second key would have started the car without a problem the first time.. if the engine wasn't getting fuel.

 

Plus, car worked like normal for three days before it happened again.

and now it doesn't start

 

I think you have some sort of electrical issue, that is why you have faults in other modules AFS and ABS

Yes, that's where I'm at. I would love for the keys to just need a simple re-sync like the dealer suggested but I'm with you on this.

 

I believe there is some kind of electrical fault.. and my gut feeling is it has something to do with how the theif took the Columbus unit. Just don't really know what this fault is yet.

1 minute ago, SkodaSponge said:

 

I believe there is some kind of electrical fault.. and my gut feeling is it has something to do with how the theif took the Columbus unit

 

Earth?

18 hours ago, bigjohn said:

 

Earth?

I read about this possibility, but forgive me for my lack of knowledge, I don't really understand how the car would lose its earth? If I'm even asking that correctly.

 

If you could further explain the idea I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Side note, could it be the wiring harness was disrupted or damaged? Or is the engine wiring harness unrelated to the wiring harness for the stereo/Sat NAV.

27 minutes ago, SkodaSponge said:

If you could further explain the idea I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Side note, could it be the wiring harness was disrupted or damaged? Or is the engine wiring harness unrelated to the wiring harness for the stereo/Sat NAV.

 

There are earth ponts behind the dash associated with wiring harness feeding various devices including CPU,s , steering column (which also has the key transponder reader) - etc.. Could they have been damaged when your old Columbus unit was ripped out

 

It wasn't until a later post that I read about the radio theft but I also think this may be related

 

Earth fault are notoriously difficult to diagnose as symptoms can change depending on what is turned on/off/connected etc

 

Quoting an example but simple fault - If you have a failed earth  on one H4 twin filament headlight buld. If you turn on dipped headlights then live is applied to the dip filament but as there is no direct earth then current also flows through the main beam bulb on the same side and then flow through the main beam filament on the other side where it finds a good earth thus dimly illuminating all main beam and one dipped filaments. As well as having a dim main beam the other bulb with a good earth would have the dipped filament illuminating brightly at the same side - wierd bt preditable.  Even with a simple circuit this is hard to understand - it's much much worse when you involve complex electronics.

 

 

 

Edited 3 January, 20188 yr by bigjohn

On 03/01/2018 at 00:09, bigjohn said:

 

Earth?

Thank you bigjohn I appreciate you giving me your time.

 

Not really getting my head around that example but that's not due to how you explained it - rather because Im not familiar with how electric circuits work.

 

However; could an earth problem be intermittent? Because the part about my spare key getting me out of the first no start, but then also getting the no start three days later is what throws me off.

 

Two thoughts on bad earth: 

1. Could the first no start have just been the first sign of bad earth?

 

2. Would the second, and final no start, have indicated loss of earth altogether? 

I think the clue is in the theft of the radio so I'd look for damage in the wiring - not just the earths. I'd also potentially change the immobiliser reader coil (near ignition lock barrel) as it could have beend damaged.

 

If you aren't sure - see an auto electrician

On 03/01/2018 at 00:09, bigjohn said:

 

Bigjohn I just want to say thanks again for your time, I do appreciate it and it has helped me learn more about my car, and all cars.

 

So. Stealership.

We had agreed with the stealers that if it's just a simple recoding/re-sync of the keys, to go ahead and do it without calling. But if it was anything else, to call me first for authorization. Especially if it's going to cost more than $100 (CZK 2000). 

 

What did they do? Called me at 9 am  today after two days with the wonderful news that my car is ready a day early, and that it wasn't the keys, but the "cable welding" in two spots. Also, that they will be charging me $400 (CZK 8000) for the work!!

 

Because, in order to properly install the Columbus Unit, they needed to get the car started and have it driving.

 

They fixed the "cable welding" for the wiring that connects from the steering column to the alternator and battery. They said there was two spots that were damaged, and because they are strictly related to the engine, it has absolutely zero chance of being related to the Columbus Navigation being removed.

 

Why they didn't call me first to explain what they needed to do is beyond frustrating.

 

Picking up the car this afternoon.

Edited 5 January, 20188 yr by SkodaSponge

Oh. They also said it could have happened while I was driving.

2 hours ago, SkodaSponge said:

 

 

They fixed the "cable welding" for the wiring that connects from the steering column to the alternator and battery. They said there was two spots that were damaged, and because they are strictly related to the engine, it has absolutely zero chance of being related to the Columbus Navigation being removed.

 

 

Might be related to them trying to start your car though (damaged lock etc) as they may have tugged on the cabling thinking they could hot wire . Having a go at the lock demonstrates they were lacking in brain cells.

 

At least it's on its way to being sorted

 

 

 

Edited 5 January, 20188 yr by bigjohn

Glad you got it sorted

 

I said it wasn't the keys

You did Eddie, you did. Didn't really make sense to me the whole time anyways so I understand why that was your first instinct. 

 

Out of curiosity, if the engine did stop  while I was driving, and say I was in 5th, would the car continue in the direction it was going? Or would it freeze up and skid?

 

Bit of a naive question considering we were covering a more complex question before this.

 

Thanks again for your replies guys, you are what makes this forum so great

On 05/01/2018 at 10:58, SkodaSponge said:

Bigjohn I just want to say thanks again for your time, I do appreciate it and it has helped me learn more about my car, and all cars.

 

So. Stealership.

We had agreed with the stealers that if it's just a simple recoding/re-sync of the keys, to go ahead and do it without calling. But if it was anything else, to call me first for authorization. Especially if it's going to cost more than $100 (CZK 2000). 

 

What did they do? Called me at 9 am  today after two days with the wonderful news that my car is ready a day early, and that it wasn't the keys, but the "cable welding" in two spots. Also, that they will be charging me $400 (CZK 8000) for the work!!

 

Because, in order to properly install the Columbus Unit, they needed to get the car started and have it driving.

 

They fixed the "cable welding" for the wiring that connects from the steering column to the alternator and battery. They said there was two spots that were damaged, and because they are strictly related to the engine, it has absolutely zero chance of being related to the Columbus Navigation being removed.

 

Why they didn't call me first to explain what they needed to do is beyond frustrating.

 

Picking up the car this afternoon.

I know this old but don’t suppose you no what colour the cable was mine has all these symptoms and won’t start would be great if I could find what cable it was so I can test it