1.2TSi turbo / EPC issues

[cliveb]

On 05/08/2014 at 12:50, serkanfen said:

Then my service applied the part "03F 145 371 A - spacer washer" like explained at this link:

 

 

http://skoda-fabia-israel.blogspot.com.tr/2012/03/wastegate-actuator-fix.html

 

 

Sorry for reopening this topic after so long. I've just registered with the forum so I can ask a question about this.

 

My wife's Fabia 1.2 TSi is on a 12 plate - we bought it brand new in March 2012. It has just started throwing the EPC warning light and switching into limp-home mode. My regular servicing chap has found the fault code - P334B (pressure actuator position sensor), which matches what's been discussed here.

 

I followed the link to the blog on the Israeli site, and after looking at the photos thereon, checked my wife's wastegate actuator and I can see that the spacer is NOT present.

 

My question is this: since the car was new in March 2012, might this post-date the problems that the spacer fixes? Or would the spacer (and software recalibration) still be required?

 

I called my local Skoda main dealer and he told me that there are no software updates outstanding for the car. But I frankly don't really trust this dealer - they have never filled me with confidence, and I fear that they will just want to bolt on a new turbo at vast expense.

[skoda1982]

2010-12 Skoda 5J Fabia with 1.2 TSI CBZ engine: shim and ECU update

For pre-2012 Skoda 5J Fabia vehicles with the 1.2 TSI engine (engine codes: CBZA (85 PS) and CBZB (105 PS), the Mahle Rotary Electronic Actuator (REA) may malfunction due to the variable nozzle turbine (VNT) sticking as a result of carbon build-up. This may cause the following symptoms:

• The Electronic Power Control (‘EPC’) warning light would illuminate and the vehicle would enter ‘limp home’ mode;
• When slowing down in second gear (for example, prior to cornering or entering a roundabout), the driver may experience delayed power delivery when trying to subsequently accelerate; and,
• Error code P334B (Charge Pressure Control Actuator – Mechanical Malfunction) may be logged when driving, particularly when lifting off after heavy acceleration.

To fix,

• A 2 mm shim was to be fitted between the wastegate actuator and the turbo body; and,
• The engine control unit (ECU) was to be updated to calibrate the new actuator position.

It is understood that the ECU re-programming also provided more progressive power delivery. For Skoda vehicles, these measures were implemented as service campaign 24W6.

Some owners experienced rough running subsequent to these measures being implemented. While dealers advised that this should resolve itself within 800 kilometres (500 miles), owners have reported that this has not always been the case.

[cliveb]

15 minutes ago, skoda1982 said:

For pre-2012 Skoda 5J Fabia vehicles with the 1.2 TSI engine (engine codes: CBZA (85 PS) and CBZB (105 PS), the Mahle Rotary Electronic Actuator (REA) may malfunction due to the variable nozzle turbine (VNT) sticking as a result of carbon build-up. [etc]

 

Many thanks for your very quick response, but I am still in the dark as to whether my wife's Fabia is one that might need this fix. (It was bought new in March 2012, so I guess it could have been built at the end of 2011). According to the service schedule, the engine code is CBZB. The wastegate actuator is indeed a Mahle branded device.

 

From the service manual, the type description is "5454J4 FABIA COM TSI ELE". Not sure if this makes it a "5J Fabia".

 

Can anyone with in depth knowledge confirm whether this means the car needs the shim? (which I can see it doesn't have)

 

Thanks

[Rooted]

Maybe worth asking in the Fabia mk2 section.

There were plenty threads on the 1.2 TSI that did require the Shim upgrade, and there is a thread from a technician with part number and pictures.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/363500-12tsi-whining-noise-from-wastegate-valve-on-turbocharger-yet 

 

The Service Campaign might not show here, because it was a TPI that many dealerships denied knowledge of and not a Service Campaign / Recall Action.

http://master.skoda-auto.com/mini-apps/recall-actions 

Edited 1 February, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[cliveb]

25 minutes ago, AwaoffSki said:

Maybe worth asking in the Fabia mk2 section.

There were plenty threads on the 1.2 TSI that did require the Shim upgrade, and there is a thread from a technician with part number and pictures.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/363500-12tsi-whining-noise-from-wastegate-valve-on-turbocharger-yet 

 

 

Thanks for your comments. I fear that as an early 2012 car, I may never find out if it needs the shim update.

 

When I called my local Skoda dealer and offered to give them the fault code, they said it wouldn't be the same as theirs and they'd need to charge me £69 for diagnosis. My feeling was that this is probably BS - surely the P334B fault code is a Skoda (or VAG) one?

 

I will try calling another Skoda dealer tomorrow to see if they are any more helpful. What I don't want to happen is to be ripped off for a new turbo if all it needs is the shim update (or perhaps a new actuator).

[Rooted]

Do not call your local Skoda Dealership to talk to a Service Desk Receptionist to check on TPI's and Service Campaigns unless they are goimng to pass you to a Factory Trained Technician, 

put the enquiry in writing to the Dealership, asking conformation on a TPI or Service Campaign, or to Skoda UK Customer Services for them 

to get the answer from your vehicle details.

http://skoda.co.uk/about-us/contact-us 

[Robjon]

Hi Clive and welcome to Briskoda.  Good advice from AwaoffSki as always. 

 

Definitely worth posting in the Fabia II section.  There are a lot of well-informed guys there, many of whom are a lot more knowledgeable (and hugely more helpful) than the average Skoda dealer.

[cliveb]

4 minutes ago, skoda1982 said:

This was mine that needed a shim update

 

OK thanks. I see it's on an 11 plate, so probably about a year older than my wife's 12 plate car. Which means I'm no closer to figuring out if the shim is needed.

 

However, I did find a VW technical doc that said if the turbo part number is one of three specified ones (03F145701 L, M or K), the shim must NOT be fitted. Anyone know where I can find the turbo part number on my wife's car? (I can't see one anywhere, although the turbo looks to have some kind of thin metal shielding which I don't feel happy removing. I presume the part number will be underneath that).

[skoda1982]

56 minutes ago, cliveb said:

 

OK thanks. I see it's on an 11 plate, so probably about a year older than my wife's 12 plate car. Which means I'm no closer to figuring out if the shim is needed.

 

However, I did find a VW technical doc that said if the turbo part number is one of three specified ones (03F145701 L, M or K), the shim must NOT be fitted. Anyone know where I can find the turbo part number on my wife's car? (I can't see one anywhere, although the turbo looks to have some kind of thin metal shielding which I don't feel happy removing. I presume the part number will be underneath that).

 

If you look at the turbo you can see if there is a shim fitted or not

 

[skoda1982]

You can see the shim here the disc with the notch

 

Edited 1 February, 2018 by skoda1982

[cliveb]

1 hour ago, skoda1982 said:

 

If you look at the turbo you can see if there is a shim fitted or not

 

 

Yes, I realise that. As I mentioned earlier, I've already looked and can see that there is NOT a shim fitted.

What I'm trying to figure out is whether it needs the shim, since it's an early 2012 one.

[Rooted]

It is the Build date that will matter not when First Registered in the UK.

Just have Skoda UK tell you tomorrow if the car is one requiring the update. They know who to ask.

http://skoda.co.uk/about-us/contact-us     

The Dealerships know how to check when they use trained employees to answer customers inquiries. Or ones that can be bothered to.

[xman]

Our Octavia 1.2tsi cbzb engined car was built Nov 2011 and reg late Dec 2011

 

Required shim fitting as part of a "campaign". No details were given (they always refuse).

 

Also had the faulty rattling on start up chain that Skoda never acknowledged a problem. And the burnt out no.3 ignition cable (taking out expensive ignition coilpak) because it rests on the exhaust shield. Again Skoda denied any design issue. Took me several hundred of my own hard earned pounds (after goodwill) to sort these issues out.

 

Recently I realised they effectively redesigned the whole engine mid or late 2012 in secret but kept the same designation presumably to stop us mugs complaining. New camchain and tensioner design (again), new ignition cable arrangement with protective trunking, larger oilways, increased oil capacity.

 

But I guessed you're stressed enough as it is. 

 

Rant over

 

Now for the bad news, I have seen an increasing number of reports of turbo actuator failure on these engines. Apparently it is possible to buy and replace the electric actuator, but not through Skoda dealers who will tell you it only comes attached to a turbo.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-AUDI-SEAT-SKODA-1-2TSI-TURBO-WASTEGATE-ACTUATOR-03F145725G-03F145701F-G-K-NEW/161967238800

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-AUDI-SEAT-SKODA-1-2TSI-TURBO-WASTEGATE-ACTUATOR-03F145725G-03F145701F-G-K-NEW-/192109434480

 

Finally, I note the earlier post refers to 

 

"the Mahle Rotary Electronic Actuator (REA) may malfunction due to the variable nozzle turbine (VNT) sticking as a result of carbon build-up" 

 

This cant be right as the turbo is a wastegate turbo and not a vnt type. The first use of a vnt turbo on a VAG petrol engine is the recently introduced 1.5tsi, I believe.

 

Edited 2 February, 2018 by xman

[cliveb]

Thanks for the latest replies. I called Skoda UK, gave them the VIN of the car, and they confirmed that it is NOT due for service action 24W6. So that means it does not need the shim.

 

Which is kind of bad news - I guess it'll need a complete new actuator.

[xman]

Worthwhile checking if Skoda can supply the actuator. There are Youtube videos that show how to replace it, and then it needs adapting/calibrating. Not sure if that is a Skoda only job or not.

 

Good luck.

[hichamaziz]

thank you all for explaining this issue

[cliveb]

A quick update.

 

The car is now with a Skoda main dealer. I was pleasantly surprised that they didn't try to say it needed a new turbo, but just a replacement actuator.

But I am not at all happy that the part is on back order with no expected date. The dealer tells me this means it could come in tomorrow - or it could be weeks!

So my wife's car is now off the road for who knows how long and we are seriously inconvenienced.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking that this state of affairs is outrageous?

[Rooted]

Really they can do better than that.  They are there 52 weeks a year, they are in the Car Repair business,  so they know where to enquire on that 'Back Orders', 

because if the actuator is  not going to be available in the near future some other action needs taken, 

like when people have had enough and buy a new Turbo / complete unit to get the car mobile.

[Guest]

Hi, my car is booked into an independent tomorrow for the same issue - they advise there are 2 fixes depending on the wastegate actuator model.
 

 

1. shim and software 'update'.

2. replacement actuator

 

I believe this might have something to do with different models having differnet actuator rod lengths. I think they are ordering the parts from gsf/ ecp or similar without problems.

 

BTW there has been no suggestion regarding needing both turbo and actuator!

Edited 7 February, 2018 by Guest

[cliveb]

59 minutes ago, AwaoffSki said:

Really they can do better than that.  They are there 52 weeks a year, they are in the Car Repair business,  so they know where to enquire on that 'Back Orders', 

because if the actuator is  not going to be available in the near future some other action needs taken, 

like when people have had enough and buy a new Turbo / complete unit to get the car mobile.

 

I did say to the dealer: "what if I needed a complete new turbo - would the actuator come with that? and if so, do they have any turbos in stock, in which case order one of them and take the actuator off it". They sort of laughed, as if I wasn't being serious.

 

I feel a letter of complaint to the CEO of Skoda UK might be appropriate.

[cliveb]

1 hour ago, john2017 said:

Hi, my car is booked into an independent tomorrow for the same issue - they advise there are 2 fixes depending on the wastegate actuator model.
 

 

1. shim and software 'update'.

2. replacement actuator

 

I believe this might have something to do with different models having differnet actuator rod lengths. I think they are ordering the parts from gsf/ ecp or similar without problems.

 

BTW there has been no suggestion regarding needing both turbo and actuator!

 

If your independent manages to get a new actuator from an aftermarket source, please could you let me know where they got it?

 

I phoned an independent VAG specialist and both of his suppliers told him that nobody makes an aftermarket version - it's from VAG only.

And when he called his contact at Skoda UK, he was told there are 271 of them on back order!

[xman]

Check the ebay links I posted. Probably more if you search. Just need to check the actuator shaft length, apparently two variants.

 

Have Skoda quoted you cost of parts and labour? Or is it a goodwill job? Of course you can always phone TPS with the part numbet.

Edited 7 February, 2018 by xman

[Rooted]

That should stop the 'Never heard of a problem with the actuator'  from employees,

and they can use,  'they all do that'. 

'Sorry on them being on back order because as the failures become more common on vehicles not yet 6 years old VW Group had not been prepared for that.'

[Guest]

1 hour ago, AwaoffSki said:

That should stop the 'Never heard of a problem with the actuator'  from employees,

and they can use,  'they all do that'. 

'Sorry on them being on back order because as the failures become more common on vehicles not yet 6 years old VW Group had not been prepared for that.'

 

1 hour ago, cliveb said:

 

If your independent manages to get a new actuator from an aftermarket source, please could you let me know where they got it?

 

I phoned an independent VAG specialist and both of his suppliers told him that nobody makes an aftermarket version - it's from VAG only.

And when he called his contact at Skoda UK, he was told there are 271 of them on back order!

Hi,

 

i don’t think that vag make the actuator, I think they buy it in from Mahle.

 

i will let you know tomorrow.

 

best wishes,

 

john

 

n.b I found one on eBay of 100mm rod length NOT 116mm for £87:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-AUDI-SEAT-SKODA-1-2TSI-TURBO-WASTEGATE-ACTUATOR-03F145725G-03F145701F-G-K-NEW/192109434480?epid=1433963041&hash=item2cba9d5670:g:UQ4AAOSwTApZbOGY

Edited 7 February, 2018 by Guest

[Rooted]

No i do not think they make it either, there is not that much they do produce, and when they source they are into 'much cheapness'.