1.4 TSI vs. 1.5 TSI

[silver1011]

Does anyone have a definitive list of the differences between the two engines?

 

I understand the new 1.5 TSI engine is already fitted to the Octavia and Karoq, and is due to arrive in the Kodiaq when it moves from MY18 to MY19 sometime in June.

 

From what I can gather the headline numbers are the same between the two engines (148bhp and 250Nm @ 1,500 to 3,500rpm), the noticeable differences being around fuel consumption, 54.3mpg to 57.7mpg  and CO2 emissions down from 121g/km to 113g/km with a 0.1 second increase from 0-62mph to 8.2 seconds (Octavia). Also the 1.5 TSI seems to be paired with the 7-speed DSG rather than the 6-speed on the 1.4 TSI.

 

There is of course the price premium too, around £300 up from the 1.4 TSI.

 

A lot of the online blurb makes mention that the main technological advancement is around the introduction of ACT (Active Cylinder Management), but I was on the understanding that the 1.4 TSI in the Kodiaq already had this? Is this not the case?

 

Then of course there is the addition of a particulate filter, new technology for a petrol engine. It is supposed to be far simpler than a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) and therefore more reliable, and it is much cheaper to replace if required.

 

Getting technical I've read about common rail direct injection, a new fully variable, map controlled oil pump and a polymer-coated first main crankshaft bearing and more efficient indirect intercooling unit with improved cooling performance. 

 

Anything else worthy of note?

 

Edited 14 March, 2018 by silver1011

[Yogi-Bear]

1 hour ago, silver1011 said:

A lot of the online blurb makes mention that the main technological advancement is around the introduction of ACT (Active Cylinder Management), but I was on the understanding that the 1.4 TSI in the Kodiaq already had this? Is this not the case?

 

Either my 1.4tsi has ACT, or it is lying to me when it tells me it is going into 2-cylinder mode .

 

What other information are you after, anyway? You seem to have listed out pretty much all the stats anyone really cares about!

[TheRobinK]

 

3 hours ago, silver1011 said:

1.4 TSI in the Kodiaq already had this?

 

It does provided that it is the 148 hp variant and not the 125 hp one they put in the base model here in Ireland. 

 

The 1.4 Tsi with ACT is a peach of a motor - I have used it in a Golf and was impressed.  From what I have read, the injection changes and 350 bar rail, the cylinder coating and the VTG turbo along with some other updates mean the the 1.5 is about 10% up on economy, lower emissions, the torque is the same but comes in earlier and the range is a bit broader and I hear it heats up a bit quicker. On the downside, I read that the engine note is not quite as smooth and sweet as the 1.4 at higher RPM's (over 4000).

[silver1011]

A 6% improvement in fuel economy is significant, especially when performance remains the same, however this relates to the Octavia. The 1.4 TSI on the Octavia doesn't have ACT.

 

I'm guessing the fuel economy gains are mainly due to ACT, so if the 1.4 TSI in the Kodiaq already has ACT then the benefits moving to the 1.5 TSI are likely to be less noticeable.

 

Interesting to read the torque band widens. I test drove a 1.4 TSI Kodiaq last weekend, I agree it's a great engine. I couldn't believe how quiet it is. When the stop start kicked in it didn't get any quieter 

 

 

[Yogi-Bear]

1 hour ago, silver1011 said:

I couldn't believe how quiet it is

 

You and me both. I still can't get used to it, especially after the diesel transit vRS I had before .

 

I keep thinking I've stalled it, but I'm not even sure if that's possible with a DSG? And don't ask how many times I've started the engine, plugged my phone in, then gone to start the engine and stopped it instead.

[Markymate]

Agree with both of you on just how quiet the engine is and I keep thinking it's stalled.  Only picked it up yesterday but have been surprised how much the ACT cuts in, but happy it works so well.

[Kenny R]

I can’t find any info but do the new 1.5 TSi engines have dual injectors the same as the 2.0 Tsi?. I believe  the additional injectors in the inlet manifold address the problem of carbon build up around the inlet valves that the previous generation of direct injection engines suffered badly from.

[TheRobinK]

With regard to a 1.4 TSi engine vs the 1.5 TSi,  Whatcar? did a comparison of the  Skoda built SUV twins - the 1.4 Ateca with 7 speed DSG and the Karoq with the 1.5 and 7 speed DSG.

 

You can see it here : https://www.whatcar.com/news/seat-ateca-vs-skoda-karoq/ 

 

This is the interesting bit (I'm not sure if they both have the same model of 7 speed DSG, wet vs dry, which might account for some of this?):

 

 

One difference is their engines. While the Ateca uses the Volkswagen Group’s established 148bhp turbocharged 1.4-litre petrol unit, the Karoq has the company’s next-generation turbo 1.5. Although larger, it makes identical power and torque to the 1.4, so you’d presume there would be barely anything in it when it comes to performance.

 

Except that isn’t the case. The Ateca always feels a little more potent and pulls harder when you squeeze your right foot. As well as sounding wheezier past 4000rpm, the Karoq’s 1.5 motor feels less energetic from mid to high revs – a point proven in our acceleration tests; the Karoq sprinted from 0-60mph in 9.2sec, whereas the Ateca took just 8.4sec.

With both cars having optional seven-speed dual-clutch automatic gearboxes fitted, a knock-on effect of the Karoq’s less enthusiastic engine is that when you put your foot down, its gearbox tends to change down one or two more gears than the Ateca’s, forcing the engine to rev harder. 

 

Edited 16 March, 2018 by TheRobinK
typo

[silver1011]

Great find.

 

Progress eh?

 

Perhaps in terms of emissions and fuel economy but at what cost?

 

We've seen it before, increased emissions control tends to require compromise.

 

I haven't driven the 1.5 TSI so shouldn't speculate, but I'm glad I ordered my Kodiaq when I did to ensure I get the 1.4 TSI.

[nnj10]

What are the chances of people ordering now with 1.4 TSI getting (free) upgraded to 1.5TSI?

If the build date switchover to MY19 is week 22 as posted in couple of threads it may be borderline for anyone ordering now? 

[silver1011]

Week 22 (28th May) does seem to be the model year change-over date from the last couple of years.

 

I'd prefer the 1.4 TSI rather than the 1.5 TSI so I'm hoping they have sufficient engines to fulfil current orders.

 

I ordered last week and was quoted 12-14 weeks which takes me to the last week of June.

[nnj10]

7 minutes ago, silver1011 said:

Week 22 (28th May) does seem to be the model year change-over date from the last couple of years.

 

I'd prefer the 1.4 TSI rather than the 1.5 TSI so I'm hoping they have sufficient engines to fulfil current orders.

 

I ordered last week and was quoted 12-14 weeks which takes me to the last week of June.

 

 

I just had a message from the dealer stating no new orders are being accepted for 1.4TSI, not sure how true it is.
I am assuming then it is 1.5 TSI coming fairly soon to the bear, but the prices will rise!

 

[silver1011]

The 1.5 TSI is definitely coming to the Kodiaq and soon, most other Skoda models have already transitioned (Octavia, & Karoq).

 

Both the Kodiaq and Superb remain available to configure online with the 1.4 TSI.

 

My order for a 1.4 TSI was processed last week.

 

Skoda will have a hard time trying to charge me an extra £300 for an engine I didn't order and don't want 

[Markymate]

From recent stories and reviews I've read, I'm so glad to have got my 1.4 engine already.  A neighbour in our street has just  got a new Karog with the 1.5TSI engine and tells me it's quite smooth but a bit lack lustred.  She's been in my Kodiaq and said there's no comparison.

[silver1011]

I've heard similar stories too, there are several threads over on the Octavia MkIII forum on the 1.5 TSI and the anti-stall feature, the engine RPM is increasing to 1,800 RPM instead of the usual 900 - 1,000 RPM making the car very difficult to drive.

 

Also reports of excessively jerky slow speed manoeuvres on DSG equipped models too.

 

Hopefully they'll have ironed out the faults before dropping it into the Kodiaq...

 

 

Happy to stick with the 1.4 TSI!

 

[SurreyJohn]

The 1.4 comes in both a 125 (non ACT) version and a 148 version.  

 

There are 2 main differences seems to be that the new engine has variable geometry which is supposed to affect the swirl of the air as it enters cylinders, more efficient at lower speeds

Don't think it makes much difference at higher revs

The other main difference is it uses a Miller cycle (valve closing is not timed exactly with piston changing direction), I think this reuses some of the waste gas and allows a leaner burn (as waste gas has less oxygen in it) which saves fuel

 

Don't know the dates, but I think 1.4 production was going to switch soon.   Might have been delayed due to the increased demand for petrols, so would be easier to re-tool during the summer factory break (July).  

 

Have read somewhere (can't remember where at moment) that the new 2 litre engines are delayed until November as they re-use a production lines that is currently making the 1.4diesel  (I am guessing this is a new output for the 2 litre petrol as there are other lines already making versions of 2 litre engines) or it could be simply that some production is switching from small diesels to more medium/large petrols to match market demand. 

[BramBam]

1 hour ago, SurreyJohn said:

The 1.4 comes in both a 125 (non ACT) version and a 148 version.  

 

There are 2 main differences seems to be that the new engine has variable geometry which is supposed to affect the swirl of the air as it enters cylinders, more efficient at lower speeds

Don't think it makes much difference at higher revs

The other main difference is it uses a Miller cycle (valve closing is not timed exactly with piston changing direction), I think this reuses some of the waste gas and allows a leaner burn (as waste gas has less oxygen in it) which saves fuel

 

Don't know the dates, but I think 1.4 production was going to switch soon.   Might have been delayed due to the increased demand for petrols, so would be easier to re-tool during the summer factory break (July).  

 

Have read somewhere (can't remember where at moment) that the new 2 litre engines are delayed until November as they re-use a production lines that is currently making the 1.4diesel  (I am guessing this is a new output for the 2 litre petrol as there are other lines already making versions of 2 litre engines) or it could be simply that some production is switching from small diesels to more medium/large petrols to match market demand. 

 

According to my dealer switch will be made during summer break and 1.5TSI will be used as of BW32.

[Falkster]

I'm hoping that the 1.5 will bring the emissions down as the 1.4 has a high BIK band. Failing that I will need to look at the Karoq....would much prefer a Kodiaq though!

[SurreyJohn]

1 hour ago, Falkster said:

I'm hoping that the 1.5 will bring the emissions down as the 1.4 has a high BIK band. Failing that I will need to look at the Karoq....would much prefer a Kodiaq though!

 

The problem might be that an engine introduced in the summer might be tested to the new emissions standard

If it is a benefit in kind CO2 figure you are worried about, then the change seems to be adding 15-25% to some diesel measurements

Luckily doesn't seem to make much of a change to petrol results

 

Alternatively use your own cash then no bik to worry about

 

 

[silver1011]

Waiting for the 1.5 TSI won't make any difference to the tax costs unfortunately, the first year tax cost (£200 or £500) is included in the 'on the road price' so is already factored into the purchase price of the car, the second year and all future tax costs are the same for both the 1.4 TSI and 1.5 TSI @ £140 for 12 months.

 

The current 1.4 TSI in the Kodiaq falls in to either 'H' or 'I' VED bands...

 

1.4 TSI 125PS @ 139 CO2 = H

1.4 TSI 150PS DSG @ 143 CO2 = H

1.4 TSI 150PS 4x4 @155 CO2 = I

1.4 TSI 150PS 4x4 DSG @ 163 CO2 = I

 

1st Tax Payment (Year 1)

 

H = £200

I = £500

 

2nd Tax Payment & Onwards (depending on list price, but no Kodiaq has a list over £40,000)

 

H = £140

I = £140

 

[Yogi-Bear]

1 hour ago, silver1011 said:

no Kodiaq has a list over £40,000

 

It's list price including options - so you could get up to about £46k if you try hard enough.

 

And the discussion was about BIK, or Company Car Tax, not VED.

Edited 22 March, 2018 by WiggosSideburns

[Falkster]

SurreyJohn/Silver - Its a company car that I am looking at to replace my Octy CR Black Edition. Unfortunately I don't get an allowance or the option of buying my own car so I am looking at a petrol unit next. Its the Benefit in Kind tax that I'm referring to which is over £3k per year for a Kodiaq 1.4 SEL compared to £2460 for the Octy...an increase of £53 per month. 

 

I was hoping that the 1.5 might have a lower CO2 and thus BIK.

[Yogi-Bear]

10 minutes ago, Falkster said:

I was hoping that the 1.5 might have a lower CO2 and thus BIK

 

For what it is worth (probably not a lot) - the 1.5TSI 150 DSG in the Karoq produces about 15g/km lower than the 1.4TSI 150 DSG in the Kodiaq. On an engine that they share (the 2.0TDI 150), the difference is 10g/km. So, I suspect it will be slightly better, but potentially not enough for it to bring the BIK down any.

 

I could be completely wrong, however.

[Falkster]

58 minutes ago, WiggosSideburns said:

 

For what it is worth (probably not a lot) - the 1.5TSI 150 DSG in the Karoq produces about 15g/km lower than the 1.4TSI 150 DSG in the Kodiaq. On an engine that they share (the 2.0TDI 150), the difference is 10g/km. So, I suspect it will be slightly better, but potentially not enough for it to bring the BIK down any.

 

I could be completely wrong, however.

 

A difference of £400 pa or £33 a month Wiggo.....damn HMRC....a company car is not a perk anymore!

[silver1011]

I took a look at the Octavia as both engines are still available to order in the same car.

 

BIK on the Octavia SE hatchback 1.4 TSI 150PS is 23%, the 1.5 TSI 150PS ACT is 21%.

 

P11D values are £19,815 and £20,115 respectively.

 

Taxable BiK is therefore £4,557 and £4,224.

 

A higher rate tax payer is therefore looking at £1,823 and £1,690, a difference of  £133 or £11/month.

 

Hopefully the Kodiaq will yield improved savings.