https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/13/jaguar-land-rover-recalls-cars-over-carbon-dioxide-levels

Oh not another FIX

Were they cheating?

 

Notice that the article says some models will require new tyres fitting.

 

Customer: "Fantastic! Free Tyres too!” 

Manager: " Yes Sir, a full set of 155/55 R17s"

Customer: 

 

 

Does this mean Range Rovers are somehow bad for the Planet? Footballers everywhere will be mortified by this shocking news. They will be selling their aftermarket 22" alloys immediately.

Quote

Some cars will need new tyres fitted, including the Range Rover Evoque and the repair could result in minor changes to the "overall vehicle experience," reports Which?.

 

3 hours ago, Sad555 said:

Oh not another FIX

 

 yes, its a "fix"

Any word yet on what the President of the Free World has to say about TATA Jaguar Land Rovers in the USofA?

1 minute ago, Skoffski said:

Any word yet on what the President of the Free World has to say about TATA Jaguar Land Rovers in the USofA?

Junckers has no comment.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/jaguar/106302/jlr-recalls-44000-cars-over-excessive-co2-emissions

 

No surprises here. Everyone gets caught cheating on emissions, it's just a matter of when

12 hours ago, Skoffski said:

Any word yet on what the President of the Free World has to say about TATA Jaguar Land Rovers in the USofA?

He's probably more  worried about Boeings failures currently. At least he took the decision to ground them 

Edited 14 March, 20197 yr by vrskeith

@marfrohun

Like maybe VW Group will with 1.5 TSI EVO engines if they have Engine Management / Software to get through the WLTP with low Emission and Fuel consumption results 

yet have to give Courtesy Cars to Owners handing in cars while waiting for VW Group to resolve the issues making them dangerous to drive.

Just a few maybe, but growing in numbers.

10 hours ago, marfrohun said:

No surprises here. Everyone gets caught cheating on emissions, it's just a matter of when

I have a friend that's a Ford Mastertech, he said the same and that there are currently programmes running to "update" lots of their newer cars which may or may not alter the emissions.

16 hours ago, xman said:

Were they cheating?

 

Notice that the article says some models will require new tyres fitting.

 

Customer: "Fantastic! Free Tyres too!” 

Manager: " Yes Sir, a full set of 155/55 R17s"

Customer: 

 

 

For me this is where it all falls down......

 

Let's say the vehicles leave the factory with the most economical/efficient tyre money can buy (obviously this goes for any manufacturer) so that it meets the certified CO2 levels.

 

What's to stop the owner swapping the tyres out as soon as the leave the forecourt or even changing the wheels completely?  Also, in 3 years time when it's up for the first MOT, the emissions are tested whilst the vehicle is stationary, the wheels/tyres make no difference whatsoever!  At no point are they ever going to be able to do a "real world" emissions test en-mass.

 

I get that the pressure's on the manufacturers to produce cleaner cars than ever but surely if the margins are that fine that a set of tyres make the difference of it being within limits or not, when it's driven in the real World in different conditions by different drivers, the CO2 figures are going to be completely different anyway?

 

Is it time to accept that fossil fueled vehicles are probably at the limit of what's practically possible in terms of "cleanliness" without imposing further restrictions that are practically impossible to police/monitor once it's out in the big wide world?

42 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

@marfrohun

Like maybe VW Group will with 1.5 TSI EVO engines if they have Engine Management / Software to get through the WLTP with low Emission and Fuel consumption results 

yet have to give Courtesy Cars to Owners handing in cars while waiting for VW Group to resolve the issues making them dangerous to drive.

Just a few maybe, but growing in numbers.

George,

 

See why you want your EV.

I wonder what unseen  issues will be raising their heads overtime with EVs. Something too get your teeth into then hey !

Running on Hydrogen or Water soon. yippee! 

 

Good future recycling business in EV batteries !

Edited 14 March, 20197 yr by vrskeith

Factories filling with a certain oil like VW are for the WLTP Testing and Dealerships & those servicing using the old spec, and maybe different emissions,

as Skoda / VW are pointing out.

Edited 14 March, 20197 yr by Skoffski

20 minutes ago, Russ77 said:

Also, in 3 years time when it's up for the first MOT, the emissions are tested whilst the vehicle is stationary, the wheels/tyres make no difference whatsoever!  At no point are they ever going to be able to do a "real world" emissions test en-mass.

 

CO2 emissions aren't even part of the MOT test.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Wino said:

 

CO2 emissions aren't even part of the MOT test.

 

 

Granted but emissions are still tested and overall the emissions will be different when the vehicle is driven in real world conditions by a variety of drivers.  

 

The changing of wheels and tyres will surely affect the quantity of all exhaust gases, not just CO2

Agreed.

55 minutes ago, Russ77 said:

Granted but emissions are still tested and overall the emissions will be different when the vehicle is driven in real world conditions by a variety of drivers.  

 

The changing of wheels and tyres will surely affect the quantity of all exhaust gases, not just CO2

 

The MOT merely checks the catalytic convertor is present and working. Even if CO doubles, a CAT can handle that easily and the pass mark allows an even bigger increase in "emissions” over what is normally seen.

 

CO2 is the one emission that cannot be controlled/eliminated by after treatment and is not checked once a car has been sold.  

 

Its encouraging that DVSA is finally starting to catch the cheaters, but there doesn't seem to be any punitive penalties being imposed. So very little incentive for manufacturers to stop gaming.

 

Edited 14 March, 20197 yr by xman

The DVSA / DfT can do random re-testing of Imported vehicles into the UK to see if they matched the EU testing, that was VW paying 1.1 million towards that after the Diesel Scandal.

They have been having VW Group vehicles tested and refused to pay more for the UK Agency testing others.

Now WLTP vehicles are being Re-tested.

 

JLR were bound to be tested as Imported having been Exported from the UK.

Time will tell how Honda, Nissan & Toyota have been under 're-testing' of WLTP Certificated cars.

 

Edited 14 March, 20197 yr by Skoffski

14 hours ago, Russ77 said:

I have a friend that's a Ford Mastertech, he said the same and that there are currently programmes running to "update" lots of their newer cars which may or may not alter the emissions.

Not surprised at all! If you look at the timeline since the VW scandal, a lot of manufacturers have been caught out, just not at the same scale as VW. 

Daimler/Mercedes: https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/104667993/nearly-a-million-vehicles-caught-in-mercedesbenzs-emissions-scandal

Fiat Chrysler: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/10/business/fiat-chrysler-settlement/index.html

Nissan/Renault: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44763905

 

And that's not a complete list either. 

In my opinion, the whole emissions testing is just another form of revenue collection. That's coming from somebody who has never owned a petrol car - I also care about the environment (despite driving a 'big bad diesel!!!!') but it's not the way to go about lowering emissions. No wonder manufacturers are cheating - they are forced to downsize their engines continously, add more equipment and the latest touchscreen ball massagers while still keeping their cars relatively reliable and fuel efficient, but then also reducing emissions. 

 

Not to mention that cars are getting less and less reliable now. Long gone are the days of the analogue 1.9 Tdis going millions of k's, but we've got modern CR diesels with cats, DPFs that clog, EGR systems that literally consume themselves (https://totalcar.hu/magazin/kozelet/2018/01/30/modern_volkswagen_dizel_olajfogyasztas_1_liter_1000_km/ - article is in Hungarian but you can use Google Translate), and now foreseeably more emissions stuff that makes these cars crap out at 200,000kms.