Hey guys, I  bought a nice stock Vrs 2005 with 190k km 6 months ago and it's time for the oil change. I have complete service history and the previous owner always used Motul 505.01 5W40, never even changed the brand and changed oil every 10k km without exception all these years... Should I switch to the newer 507.00 or stay at 505.01? I guess not because the engine sounds and works like spanking new... I have heard that 505.01 makes the engine sound quieter and offers a bit more protection, that it is actually better if changed anually and at 10k km because of the less agressive additive package used... Is this true? If so, one more reason to stay there. What do you think?

Edited 16 March, 20197 yr by iwcham1979

21 minutes ago, iwcham1979 said:

Hey guys, I  bought a nice stock Vrs 2005 with 190k km 6 months ago and it's time for the oil change. I have complete service history and the previous owner always used Motul 505.01 5W40, never even changed the brand and changed oil every 10k km without exception all these years... Should I switch to the newer 507.00 or stay at 505.01? I guess not because the engine sounds and works like spanking new... I have heard that 505.01 makes the engine sound quieter and offers a bit more protection, that it is actually better if changed anually and at 10k km because of the less agressive additive package used... Is this true? If so, one more reason to stay there. What do you think?

 

Sounds like a load of nonsense to me, you can use either, one is not 'better' than the other, 507 is a later standard covering later engines in addition to yours.

In any event a standard simply means a product is deemed 'good enough' to be compliant.

1 hour ago, iwcham1979 said:

 less agressive additive package used... Is this true? If so, one more reason to stay there. What do you think?

 

I did see some interesting evidence on the TDIclub forum many years ago regarding oil change intervals on diesel engines. They sampled the oil at 5K, 10K, 15K, and 20K (and possibly longer can't remember now) and the oil analysis picked up that most of the engine wear occured in the first 5K of having the engine oil in the engine which was put down to all the additives in the oil. I might see if I can dig it out.

 

This was in the USA so 20K miles over there probably isn't equivalent as it would be over here but since reading it it made me a lot less anal about wanting to change my oil as often. 

 

Regarding your oil I would put in whatever you can get the cheapest. For the PD engines the better 507 oil used to be 'longlife' anyway so it is suitable

Edited 16 March, 20197 yr by SuperbTWM

20 minutes ago, SuperbTWM said:

 

I did see some interesting evidence on the TDIclub forum many years ago regarding oil change intervals on diesel engines. They sampled the oil at 5K, 10K, 15K, and 20K (and possibly longer can't remember now) and the oil analysis picked up that most of the engine wear occured in the first 5K of having the engine oil in the engine which was put down to all the additives in the oil. I might see if I can dig it out.

 

This was in the USA so 20K miles over there probably isn't equivalent as it would be over here but since reading it it made me a lot less anal about wanting to change my oil as often. 

 

Regarding your oil I would put in whatever you can get the cheapest. For the PD engines the better 507 oil used to be 'longlife' anyway so it is suitable

 

I'd certainly be interested to see this information since it doesn't really make any sense.

A manufacturers oil testing regime for standards compliance is brutal and costs millions so I would largely ignore internet anecdotes from amateurs.

505.01 used to be available in semi as well as fully synthetic, 507 is only fully synthetic base stock, however no one uses semisyn any more so they are the same for all intents and purposes.

A semisyn will dilute much sooner in a diesel due to fuel blowing past the rings than a fully synthetic, this results in a loss of viscosity and a shorter life.

The additive packs should be functionally the same with some tweaks possible for improved chemistry, the anti galling additive is critical to the PD engine so this is really what matters in the standard.

There is a LOT of nonsense and disinformation talked about oil, but luckily for us it's difficult to buy a bad oil these days since they're all formulated from similar or the same quality base stock and the additive pack is mandated by the standard.

It's really not worth your time worrying about it let alone reading internet scare stories from shills for snake oil salesmen.

 

1 hour ago, sepulchrave said:

 

I'd certainly be interested to see this information since it doesn't really make any sense.

A manufacturers oil testing regime for standards compliance is brutal and costs millions so I would largely ignore internet anecdotes from amateurs.

505.01 used to be available in semi as well as fully synthetic, 507 is only fully synthetic base stock, however no one uses semisyn any more so they are the same for all intents and purposes.

A semisyn will dilute much sooner in a diesel due to fuel blowing past the rings than a fully synthetic, this results in a loss of viscosity and a shorter life.

The additive packs should be functionally the same with some tweaks possible for improved chemistry, the anti galling additive is critical to the PD engine so this is really what matters in the standard.

There is a LOT of nonsense and disinformation talked about oil, but luckily for us it's difficult to buy a bad oil these days since they're all formulated from similar or the same quality base stock and the additive pack is mandated by the standard.

It's really not worth your time worrying about it let alone reading internet scare stories from shills for snake oil salesmen.

 

 

Seemingly its the aggressive cleaners and detergents are what prevent the oil from working as well as it should over the first few thousand miles before it is burnt off. Read post #56 http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306043  Included is the oil analysis at 10K and 22K and you can see that the levels of wear are reduced from 10-22k than up to 10K

 

another 235 pages of oil analysis here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=154548

 

Makes for interesting reading for sure, the data does prove his point

 

 

So... 505.01 should be better, in theory, than 507.00 for those who are not on long life intervals.... The addtives in 507.00 are more aggressive in order to maintain quality over the long drain interval?!

33 minutes ago, iwcham1979 said:

So... 505.01 should be better, in theory, than 507.00 for those who are not on long life intervals.... The addtives in 507.00 are more aggressive in order to maintain quality over the long drain interval?!

 

No, long drain relies on a fully synthetic base stock which is mandated in 507, but 505.01 allows for semi-synthetic as well because it's a much older standard, I'd be surprised if you can still buy semi-synthetic oil which complies unless it's old stock since nearly everything available will now be fully synthetic, certainly name branded oils will all be 507 compliant as well as 505.01 through backwards compatibility.

 

1 hour ago, SuperbTWM said:

 

Seemingly its the aggressive cleaners and detergents are what prevent the oil from working as well as it should over the first few thousand miles before it is burnt off. Read post #56 http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306043  Included is the oil analysis at 10K and 22K and you can see that the levels of wear are reduced from 10-22k than up to 10K

 

another 235 pages of oil analysis here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=154548

 

Makes for interesting reading for sure, the data does prove his point

 

 

 

It's nonsense, well within the bounds of statistical variation and not proof of increased wear at all, the additive pack is the only thing between a smashed PD top end and a healthy one. I'd be perfectly happy running on long drain intervals with fully synthetic, even 25k is fine, but you can't do it with low mileage engines because the additive pack oxidises over time and water content also rises, entrained water is bad because it becomes abrasive steam bubbles which erode soft metals like the bearing shells.

UOA is a useful early warning tool to predict if anomalous wear is taking place, we used to use it in racing engines all the time, but it's useless for anything else, in a PD it'll tell you if it's time to change your cam and followers before the top end gets wrecked, remember there is almost no metal to metal contact in a running engine other than in the top end and the piston rings in the pistons and the bores.

1 hour ago, sepulchrave said:

you can't do it with low mileage engines because the additive pack oxidises over time and water content also rises, entrained water is bad because it becomes abrasive steam bubbles which erode soft metals like the bearing shells.

Ok. So It actually doesnt matter whether I buy Motul 505.01 5W40 or Motul 505.07 0W30? I quoted this part because it might be of importance for my other car... It's a VW Lupo 3L 1.2Tdi. It hasnt been started for 6 months and now it is one year since the last oil drain. It has Shell Helix Ultra Professional in the sump... Do I change the oil or drive more till the 10k mark? I thought I'd drive it since I have covered such low mileage in a year...

Edited 16 March, 20197 yr by iwcham1979

31 minutes ago, iwcham1979 said:

Ok. So It actually doesnt matter whether I buy Motul 505.01 5W40 or Motul 505.07 0W30? I quoted this part because it might be of importance for my other car... It's a VW Lupo 3L 1.2Tdi. It hasnt been started for 6 months and now it is one year since the last oil drain. It has Shell Helix Ultra Professional in the sump... Do I change the oil or drive more till the 10k mark? I thought I'd drive it since I have covered such low mileage in a year...

 

It's a petrol, it really doesn't matter as much, water accumulates from condensation caused by lots of short trips, if it's been stood for six months then it'll still be dry.

Do try and relax a bit.

it's a diesel...  1.2Tdi. This engine is so hard to work on...But  you're right... Drive more worry less... 

Edited 16 March, 20197 yr by iwcham1979