Hey Stranger,

 

Bought a Felicia 1.3 MPI, 1999, 47000 km, a couple of days ago.
I am a complete noob concerning a cars ECU.
A couple of years ago I had another Felicia 1.3 from 1996.
I never used the ODB possibilities to  investigate problems.
With old fashion "knowledge" I kept it running until I said a painfully goodbye, after a well deserved life.

I know modern cars are based on  CAN-bus and as far as I understand are we talking about microcontrollers.
So roughly, not CPU based. Only specific tasks.

At the moment I want to investigate, as a kind of hobby, to learn more about my new old lady.
Because she needs to drive me from A to B and I want to fix it myself.

 

After I bougt the car, in first case I looked at the key with a  button.

And now the fun starts.
I didn't know why there should be a button on my key if there is no "central-remote-locking" of the doors locks because there is not even "central-door-lock"
build in.
So I saw a LED, opended the key and the battery was of course empty after 20 years.
Smart! A little light to find the door lock in the dark. Welcome to 2019 I thought....

On a window is a sticker which warns thieves my old lady is stealing protected probably by  a kind of ignition protection.
I know how I could start an old car with 3 wires.
So I skimmed the forum.
Of course there is no chip inside the key because we are talking about a car build in 1999.
So my conclusion is: it's mechanical inside the lock, a key with a kind of code, accepted by something called "The Immobilizer", patented in 1919.
Welcome to 2019 again....
This means when I am losing my key I am in troubles.

So well so good. I bought a KKL VAG.COM 409.1 USB cable, blow the dust of a W7 laptop (I am a Linux guy), had a short hassle with the driver.., connected to COM1
in combination with VCDS-Lite with a not registered $99 (!) piece of software.
Reading out the Simos 2P with an old KWP-1281 protocol with address word 01 (engine) with a cold engine.

Bingo!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thursday, 18 April 2019, 11:44:51.

VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.2

Control Module Part Number: 047 906 030 M

  Component and/or Version: SIMOS 2P           7015

           Software Coding: 00000

            Work Shop Code: WSC 00000

                      VCID: 1A47516B9587

3 Faults Found:

00525 -  Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39)

        05-10 -  Input Open - Intermittent

00537 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

        18-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

17978 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

        P1570 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

So...., I have a G39 fault. But after I read the the specs of the "Workshop Manual - Simos 2p - Fuel Injection and Ignition System" the lambda sensor test
condition seems to be with an oil temp of 80 degrees C.
So it's not a fault but a state.
I cleared the error and haven't check it with a warm engine yet.

I am a little  confused.  I consider myself as an allround technician, but is this really the way we went and wants to go?
Closed source, proprietary AVR software, sensors stopping an engine, spaghetti  code, brakes controlled by software......,  even in all kind of emergency situation?

 

Regards,

 

/Maba

 

Hi Maba

It is good you want to learn about Felicia. Nevertheless there are some wrong assumptions you made in your message. I would recommend reassessing what you think you know about cars of Felicia's age.

 

Let's start with the error codes you've got. I've inserted detailed info about each one followed by my comments.

 

Quote

00525 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39)

00525 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39): Signal too Low

Possible Causes

• Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39) faulty
• Wiring/Connectors from/to Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39) faulty

Possible Solutions

• Check/Replace Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39)
• Check/Repair Wiring/Connectors from/to Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39)

00525 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39): Implausible Signal

Possible Causes

• Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39) faulty
• Wiring/Connectors from/to Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39) faulty

Possible Solutions

• Check/Replace Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39)
• Check/Repair Wiring/Connectors from/to Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39)

00525 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39): No Signal

Possible Causes

• Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39) faulty
• Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39) Heating faulty
• Wiring/Connectors from/to Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39) faulty

Possible Solutions

• Check/Replace Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39)
• Check Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39) Heating
• Check/Repair Wiring/Connectors from/to Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39)

 

 

You're looking at a wiring issue that you need to diagnose. If all is OK then you need a new oxygen sensor.

Quote

00537 - Lambda (Oxygen Sensor) Regulation

00537 - Lambda (Oxygen Sensor) Regulation: Upper Limit

Possible Symptoms

• Lambda Control inactive
• Engine running rough

Possible Causes

• Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Lambda Sensor(s) faulty
• Lambda Control/Sensor(s) faulty
• Injector(s) faulty/blocked
• Fuel Pressure Regulator faulty
• Fuel Pump faulty
• Fuel Tank empty
• Vacuum/air leaks

Possible Solutions

• Check Lambda Control/Sensors
• Check/Repair Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Lambda Sensor(s)
• Check/Replace/Clean Injector(s)
• Check/Replace Fuel Pressure Regulator
• Check/Replace Fuel Pump
• Check Fuel Level
• Vacuum/smoke test hoses/valves and replace leaking ones

00537 - Lambda (Oxygen Sensor) Regulation: Lower Limit

Possible Symptoms

• Lambda Control inactive
• Engine running rough

Possible Causes

• Activated Charcoal Filter Solenoid Valve 1 (N80) leaking/sticking
• Injector faulty (not closing completely)
• Fuel Pressure Regulator faulty

Possible Solutions

• Check/Replace Activated Charcoal Filter Solenoid Valve 1 (N80)
• Check/Replace/Clean Injector(s)
• Check Fuel Pressure Regulator

 

Basically you're told that the engine is running too rich or too lean. None is good.

 

Quote

17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer

Possible Symptoms

• Engine starting but stalling immediately

Possible Causes

• Key(s) not matched
• Instrument Cluster not matched
• Engine Control Unit (ECU) not matched
• Engine Control Unit (ECU) Power Supply faulty

Possible Solutions

• Check for Fault Codes in Immobilizer itself (part of Instrument Cluster in many cars, but separate Immobilizer Control Module in some)
• Check Immobilizer Measuring Values (usually in Instrument Cluster OR Immobilizer Control Module)
• Match Key(s)/Instrument Cluster/Engine Control Unit (ECU)
• Check Engine Control Unit (ECU) Power Supply (Relay)

 

Your car had a working immobilizer. If there's no chip inside the key yet the engine is running OK then the previous owner bypassed it and the error doesn't count for now. IIRC there are situations when it is mandatory to have no errors prior some operations, like resetting the throttle body.

Thanks for your comment, Ricardo.

 

As I wrote before I don't know much about a car like a Felicia from 1999.

Its too new for me.

When I look at the engine there are parts I have no idea how they work.
The MPI, fuel rail and the ignition rail for example especially in relation to the ECU.

 

But first things first.
The list you posted hasn't my "error":
 00525 -  Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39)
 05-10 -  Input Open - Intermittent

 

English is not my native so I need to guess what "Intermittent" means.
Maybe it means in the "ECU language"..., sporadic.
I cleared the message in VCDS-Lite/KKL .

After I connected the ODB 2 days later with a warm engine the "fault" was gone.
No clue if clearing a messages in VCDS-Lite is the same as a reset.
I wonder if it only was a message (kept in memory) and not a fault causing a mismatched position of the throttle valve.
Maybe because the car has been used the last couple of years only for small distances.
So maybe dirt, temp in combination with a counter in the ECU firmware, created this warning.
The sensor must work in it's expected voltage range otherwise there should be a "signal" fault.
I will keep an eye on this.

 

Do you know if the Felicia's "Simos 2P" is still a black box with closed firmware or are there documents
available with the AVR/PIC code?
For example: fault 00537 - Lambda (Oxygen Sensor) Regulation: Lower Limit. Lambda Control inactive, must be an exported variable from the firmware.  

Now the key....

As a noob I only see a place for a battery and a light bulb.
I can't see a sign of a build in chip.
If there is a chip then it must be based on a kind of RIFD technology. The battery is dead.
If this is true then I confess I have been sleeping under a "non-technical-car-based-rock"
the last 20  years.
After I bought the car a couple of days ago, I got 2 keys and a metal plate with a number.
So, I considered the lock and the key mechanical related to a compared code (in my case 1778) hard coded in the immobilizer.
Wherever that thing is.....

 

Thanks and best regards,  

/Maba

I have marked in red the wrong assumptions followed by comments in blue.

4 hours ago, maba said:

But first things first.

The list you posted hasn't my "error":
 00525 -  Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39)
 05-10 -  Input Open - Intermittent

Well, didn't you say you have used the VAG-COM interface and software to pull any errors stored in ECU's memory?

I filled for you the gaps in that reading because you have used a lite software.

It is unclear what you mean by "hasn't my error".

 

English is not my native so I need to guess what "Intermittent" means.

Neither is mine. My native language is Spanish. What is yours?
Maybe it means in the "ECU language"..., sporadic.

Intermittent has the same meaning in all situations. Google Translator is your friend.
I cleared the message in VCDS-Lite/KKL .

After I connected the ODB 2 days later with a warm engine the "fault" was gone.
No clue if clearing a messages in VCDS-Lite is the same as a reset.

It depends of what you mean by "reset". I presume you mean disconnecting the battery, because there is no reset button.
I wonder if it only was a message (kept in memory) and not a fault causing a mismatched position of the throttle valve.
Maybe because the car has been used the last couple of years only for small distances.
So maybe dirt, temp in combination with a counter in the ECU firmware, created this warning.

When a certain value of a monitored parameter is above or below a threshold or several conditions are met, an intermittent error is recorded. If the error repeats in 2 or more start/stop cycles of the car then the error gets permanent and an alert indicator is lit. Erasing the errors without solving the cause that generated them is futile. At next driving cycle the error will be written again in the memory of ECU.
The sensor must work in it's expected voltage range otherwise there should be a "signal" fault.
I will keep an eye on this.

 

Do you know if the Felicia's "Simos 2P" is still a black box with closed firmware or are there documents available with the AVR/PIC code?

From my knowledge it is pretty much a black box. Furthermore the firmware is not flashable without physically taking it out, reading it and reprogramming it.
For example: fault 00537 - Lambda (Oxygen Sensor) Regulation: Lower Limit. Lambda Control inactive, must be an exported variable from the firmware.

No, it is not just a variable. It is a flag with an identifier followed by a frame describing the instantaneous values of engine parameters.

Now the key....

As a noob I only see a place for a battery and a light bulb.
I can't see a sign of a build in chip.
If there is a chip then it must be based on a kind of RIFD technology. The battery is dead.

What do you think it is what I've marked on your photo?
If this is true then I confess I have been sleeping under a "non-technical-car-based-rock" the last 20  years.

You said it.
After I bought the car a couple of days ago, I got 2 keys and a metal plate with a number.
So, I considered the lock and the key mechanical related to a compared code (in my case 1778) hard coded in the immobilizer.
Wherever that thing is.....

In the dashboard.

 

 

PS: It would be a great progress for you to buy the Skoda Felicia Haynes manual.

Edited 21 April, 20197 yr by RicardoM

Hi Ricardo,

 

Thanks a lot for your post.

Time to say goodbye to my rock.

I am Dutch but living in DK since 1999, I am losing my native... 

 

Found this "high-tec" movie on youtube from around 1994 (immobilizer/transponder)

 

 

13:07 is the funny part. The phone has even buttons to press on and it was possible to call the Skoda hotline....:

 

Thanks for bringing me back to reality....

 

 

/Maba

 

Edited 21 April, 20197 yr by maba
typo

5 hours ago, maba said:

I am Dutch but living in DK since 1999, I am losing my native... 

And I imagine you're a programmer or working in electronics. Right?

 

5 hours ago, maba said:

Found this "high-tec" movie on youtube from around 1994 (immobilizer/transponder)

Yes. Here is the rest of videos posted by me some 3 years ago in Classic Guides section.

 

17 hours ago, RicardoM said:

And I imagine you're a programmer or working in electronics. Right? 

 

Calling myself an all round technician fits me best.

I know some stuff in the area of (computer) communication protocols, PLC, HMI, embedded systems, SCADA, controllers,

I/O systems and an over average knowledge of GNU/Linux based systems. I prefer open systems and open standards and can some coding.

Concerning black boxes sometimes I like to investigate them as hobby.

I refuse to carry responsibility for closed and property based black boxes in my profession. My fight is over. 

Boeings are falling down, hidden interactions/functionality or a cruise ship "losing all engines" in a storm because of a bad designed system risking many lives....

I know. ****  ( = S_H_I_T) happens and systems will fail. But too many people are blindly trusting "computer based" systems. I don't.

If I can't drive a car with flat tires, no cooling and no oil until it dies then it's not a car for me.

 

About the "Simos 2p" ECU / kwp-1281. I don't know yet.

Time will learn.  

 

Greetings,

 

/Maba

 

 

 

Edited 22 April, 20197 yr by maba
dirty word

2 hours ago, maba said:

But too many people are blindly trusting "computer based" systems. I don't.

Agree. A car computer should allow the driver to be in control all the time.

An airplane should allow the pilot to intervene at any time and retake full control immediately.

Only humans should make decisions. Computers are only to make pilot's/driver's life easier.

15 hours ago, maba said:

If I can't drive a car with flat tires, no cooling and no oil until it dies then it's not a car for me.

 

Well then, Felicia is car for you :D  it's made in that short period when electronics in car was actually useful and it's quite simple in comparison with more modern cars. As long as it have working crankshaft position sensor, fuel supply and working ignition module, it will (roughly) run. Although fuel mixture is monitored, it's not as strict as EU4 and newer engines. Most failure codes are actual failures in wiring or sensor, while newer cars can be triggered by slightest vacuum leak.

@maba - Since no-one else has mentioned it, CANBus is way too new a technology to need worrying about on any Felicia.

 

As for forgetting your Nederlandsch, just speak Danish when you're home, and everyone will think you have a potato in your mouth! 

@Ricardo
Cheers!

 

@Papez
Thanks for your post.
Do you know what happens if the crankshaft position sensor fails while driving...
What is the action of the Simos 2P?

@KenONeill
I knew the Felicia has no CAN bus. Sorry I wasn't clear enough.
A couple of months ago I "played" a little with CAN bus and CANOpen.
Because CAN has found it's way, as fieldbus, in industrial environments as well.
And it can be a cheap and robust solution. There are open source stacks available as well.

 

Yeah.., Yeah... my nick name in Denmark is even "The Swedish Chef" from the Muppet Show.
And to be honest. The guy, the co-founder of my nick, is probably right.

 

Thanks guys.

/Maba
 

Failing crankshaft position sensor