Is the general consensus that if there is copper filaments in engine oil that the big end has gone? Asking for a friend.  

Not many other parts have copper in them. Has he ran it on low oil or had anything fail than could cause the oil to be contaminated enough to damage the bearings?

He might also want to find out what the bearings are. Tri-metal, the ones with an actual layer of copper aren’t as common as the bi-metal, which are a bronze or copper aluminium alloy but when the break down it looks like silver metal particles.  

It was run low on oil about 20k miles ago. Apparently has had the rattle since. But drives fine apart from the rattle. 

What car and engine 

2.5T Ford S-Max. The focus ST engine. The fact it dosent sound like a knock but more of a rattle that is only between certain revs is what's puzzling me. 

Edited 27 August, 20196 yr by Chris

Normally a reliable engine hence why you can’t find any information on failed bottom ends.  

If the rattle has got no worse and assuming out of warranty he may as well keep driving it until it fails and get another engine from a breakers as it will be cheaper than a bottom end rebuild unless he knows a man who can for mates rates. 

See the 2nd page.  Re Copper.

This was a member here than had oil from a 1.4TSI Twincharger tested in a lab by a friend involved in Motorsport Engineering.

Sadly the posted image of the results have gone.

Post still here though.

Thanks. I think it's the rattle that is throwing us. In my eyes if it was knocking then I'd say it needed a bottom end. It's just a rattle between certain revs..drives fine, seems to pull ok. 

If it rattles when maintaining constant revs but dissapears on acceleration and deceleration, is only really noticeable on the transition between the two (poor description but if you have it you can duplicate it on the throttle) then its indicative of worn main bearings and not big end bearings.

 

A flywheel or crank pulley coming loose can initially make the same noise but soon becomes catastrophic whereas you can easily drive for 20K with partially worn main bearings if the oil pressure is good after the refill.

15 minutes ago, J.R. said:

If it rattles when maintaining constant revs but dissapears on acceleration and deceleration, is only really noticeable on the transition between the two (poor description but if you have it you can duplicate it on the throttle) then its indicative of worn main bearings and not big end bearings.

 

A flywheel or crank pulley coming loose can initially make the same noise but soon becomes catastrophic whereas you can easily drive for 20K with partially worn main bearings if the oil pressure is good after the refill.

Yeah, as soon as you get to around 2.5k revs the rattle starts. It dosent get any louder or anything but then kind of fades around 3.5k. No matter what gear, it does it. It's drives fine other than the rattle, no noticeable oil use, no smoke, just the rattle and metal/copper in the fresh oil after a flush and new oil put in. 

15 hours ago, Chris said:

Asking for a friend.

OK, read the whole thread, and would suggest that he moves to the highest number hot viscosity oil that Ford recommend for this engine. The other stuff is all sound; this is to maximise the life of the existing motor before it needs replacing.

Spoken to the mechanic today. He says the rattle is coming from the bottom of the engine and vibrating to the top. He said there was no metal particles in the old oil he drained but after he replaced the filter and put new oil in it and drained it there were. I've said I'm going to pick it up on Friday and decide what to do. I'm still not convinced. 

Its not a loose pick up pipe or baffle in the bottom end is it?

 

The low oil may be a red herring. I'm guessing that the rattle prompted the owner to check the oil and the oil was low because they are probably the type of person who never checks or tops up their oil?

Edited 28 August, 20196 yr by SuperbTWM

1 minute ago, SuperbTWM said:

Its not a loose pick up pipe or baffle in the bottom end is it?

 

The low oil may be a red herring. I'm guessing that the rattle prompted the owner to check the oil and the oil was low because they are probably the type of person who never checks or tops up their oil?

Plan is to pick it up Friday and get it closer to home. Then figure it out haha

we buy any car / trade in job

On 29/08/2019 at 13:22, BigJase88 said:

we buy any car / trade in job

Bought as a project, so just working out the issues and then working through them.