Robust tyres for Octavia Scout

[scandalxk]

Hi All.  I am contemplating new tyres for my Scout.  Currently I have Nexen summer and Continental winter tyres.  In both cases they are dedicated road tyres.  I think I need different winter and summer tyres because I live in Cumbria and work a lot in the Scottish Highlands, so I think the range of my driving conditions is wide enough to discount the use of "all season" tyres.

 

In the last couple of years more of my work has been on extensive hydro-electric construction sites, which means a lot of mileage off road...but to get there, I first have to do four to six hours on motorways and A-roads.  The Scout is simply brilliant for this: fast, comfortable and economical on the road, and with plenty of traction, and adequate clearance, off road.  But I am worried that construction sites often have debris lying around - nails, bits of metal, felled timber, bits that have fallen off machines etc. - and one day, inevitably, I will damage a tyre and get a flat miles from anywhere, probably on my own, up a mountain, in the snow.

 

So I am wondering about tyres which are a bit more robust than the road tyres I currently use.  Can anyone recommend anything?  Is there something out there which will give me more security off road, but retain most of the benefits of the tyres I currently use when on the road?

 

Interested to hear what other people have used.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

scandalxk

[Guest]

Up until July this year I ran Goodyear Efficient Grip Performance on the 17" Proteus alloys and Nokian A3 WR on 16" steelies changing over October and April/May.  This combo has served me well over the last 5 years and 50k miles (approx 25k miles on each), however, this year I have had to replace both sets of tyres as although they still have around 4mm of tread in them they are showing cracks around the treads. 

 

After reading a fair few reviews on here, rather than replace like for like and the associated costs that incurs, I went with Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons, and I would say with just a few months and maybe a 1000 miles of mixed use, they are probably the best tyres I have fitted to my Scout (OE Dunlop SP01's, GY EGP, and Nokian A3's); nice and quiet, car seems reasonably sure footed (but can feel a little 'squirmy', but I put that down to the tread pattern being set up more for 'winter driving'  than say the Michelin Cross Climates which appears to me more tailored towards a SE England winter).  The only 'off roading' I do is when I take the dogs to the local country park and use what the local council apparently class as a car park; huge pot holes, dips, ruts, gravel, mud, grass. I also have to 'bump' my car over a kerb to gain access to my drive, and the Vectors handle both with aplomb. 

 

The real test for me is when the cold weather starts to hit in a few weeks, it can be icy for most of the day with temperatures barely rising into single figures. Considering how well the Efficent Grips coped with driving on icy roads in the middle of July, I do not envisage any major issues with the vectors.  Besides, even with the 16" Nokians fitted, if I thought it was too bad to travel,  I would have no hesitation in just leaving the car parked on the drive*.

 

Goodyear Vector 4Seasons Gen2

 

 

 

*   Always check Twitter firsts!    I was supposed to be travelling on that route that day to visit my parents, but thought better of it!

 

 

,

[Ootohere]

Even Gravel Rally Tyres can get punctures, so you are as well to get a pair of spare wheels and tyres and carry a trolley jack.

 

A set of BF Goodrich All -Terrain T/A KO2 if you can get in your size, 

or similar AT's. 

?

What are other using on their cars / pickups doing the same tracks?

http://camskill.co.uk

http://4x4tyres.co.uk

http://tyresdirectuk.co.uk

 

Maybe best get a nice easy to fit & remove set of snow chains or grippers as well. 

 

I have used KO & KO2 in Snow and Forest Tracks in Scotland and they were OK but they are not Snow tyres.

Also had older AT's and Mud tyres from BF Goodrich, only puncture was with the Muds in an Asda car park.

 

I have put Michelin CrossClimate SUV's on for this winter on my Shogun not BF Goodrich & will be doing some forest and windfarm tracks, 

i will see how they do as they are wide at 265, but the standard size is 285, but if needs must i would put chains on the CrossClimates on hillsides / tracks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 12 September, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[scandalxk]

16 hours ago, Fin69 said:

Up until July this year I ran Goodyear Efficient Grip Performance on the 17" Proteus alloys and Nokian A3 WR on 16" steelies changing over October and April/May...After reading a fair few reviews on here, rather than replace like for like and the associated costs that incurs, I went with Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons, and I would say with just a few months and maybe a 1000 miles of mixed use, they are probably the best tyres I have fitted to my Scout...

,

Hi Fin69, thanks for replying in detail.  I've seen the Goodyear Vectors recommended elsewhere on this forum, and they seem to be popular.  I agree that the tread pattern looks winter-oriented.  My Scout definitely drives best on the summer Nexens so I don't especially want to drive all year round on winter-oriented tyres.  They tend to wallow through the corners (only a little bit, but noticeable) which makes you wonder about how far away the ultimate limits are.

 

But the bottom line is that it is resistance to site damage that I am most concerned about, not grip or handling, and the Vectors don't really look any different to my current tyres in that respect.

 

Cheers,

 

scandalxk

[scandalxk]

16 hours ago, Roottootemoot said:

Even Gravel Rally Tyres can get punctures, so you are as well to get a pair of spare wheels and tyres and carry a trolley jack.

...

Maybe best get a nice easy to fit & remove set of snow chains or grippers as well. 

...

I have used KO & KO2 in Snow and Forest Tracks in Scotland and they were OK but they are not Snow tyres.

...

I have put Michelin CrossClimate SUV's on for this winter on my Shogun not BF Goodrich & will be doing some forest and windfarm tracks, 

 

Hi Roottootemoot, thanks for your detailed reply.  Yes, I have a full-size spare wheel.  Essential, I agree.

 

Traction is not a problem, so chains would probably cause more damage to the tyres than they would save!  Mostly the off-road mileage is on construction tracks which are usually rough and bumpy but don't lack traction.  It is the debris hidden in the crushed rock that worries me.

 

I'm not keen on those BF Goodrich tyres because I cannot believe that the car would be anything like as good on the road with them fitted.  I agree that they would be robust, though.

 

I like the look of the Crossclimates.  I will see what I can find to fit the Scout next time tyres are due.  If you remember, can you put a review after you have had them for a few months over the winter?  Thanks.

 

scandalxk

[Ootohere]

@scandalxk

Reason i posted the Vid with the VW Caravelle was because motorway behaviour is good.

I also had Yokohama Geolander A/T~S  G012 's on a Jimny for a couple of years and they were pretty good.

Now the Yokohama Geolander A/T G0 15 is the one to go for IMO.

*You do not have to have white lettering, they come in black the same as BF Goodrich can.*

 

Geolander A/T-S are OEM fitment on Arial Nomads so have the Speed & Load ratings required.

Or H/T-S

For offroad they use Yokohama M/T+,

or Advan A053 gravel rally tyres & A006T tarmac rally tyres.

 

 

There are loads of Michelin CrossClimate threads and posts in this section.

 

I have driven with them on various FWD cars in the past 4 years but this is the first i have put big size / wide CrossClimates on a heavy 4x4.

They are good as an all year tyre on cars and can cope with snow on ploughed and gritted / salted roads that are open and even on closed or private roads that are snow covered IME.

This winter i will be using my Shogun as a Daily Driver and need the good main road and motorway behaviour rather than bothering about offroad or just getting about in snow.

If i need to go where roads are iced up or snow gates are closed & there is lack of traction i can put the chains on, or just Snow Socks.

Edited 13 September, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[scandalxk]

@Roottootemoot I hadn't realised the Caravelle image was a video!  Interesting.  She does refer to "needing more power", especially in the rain, and of course "needing more power" means "needing more fuel".  They do look good, though.  So do the Geolandars. 

 

I still suspect that the Crossclimates would be the better compromise.  Look at the tyre rating labels for fuel consumption:  B/C for the Crossclimates, F for the Goodriches and the Geolandars.  I acknowledge that the chunkier tyres would be more robust, but it is a compromise I need.

 

Thanks again!

 

scandalxk

 

 

[Ootohere]

That was because they put on bigger tyres / circumference so changing the gearing.  Not fitting OEM sizes can do that.

 

From experience i know that bigger rolling radius / circumference does not always mean using more fuel.

Once you check speeds and distance with GPS or V-Box and tank brims to brims it can put engines in a sweet spot RPM wise and actually give decent economy.

 

But then i only drive Autos / DSG's / CVT's and never bothered about a couple of quid per trip for fuel compared to staying mobile,

& to spending hours or days stuck someplace running an engine to stay warm is not cheap.

It is nice to know you can go off route onto back roads and avoid the grid lock traffic sitting on a Motorway when there in 2"'s of snow compacted.

 

I have a wee smile when people think they have all the gear and if they still get stuck the emergency services will send someone up a Scottish dead end glen to tow them out.

Edited 13 September, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[scandalxk]

16 minutes ago, Roottootemoot said:

That was because they put on bigger tyres / circumference so changing the gearing.  Not fitting OEM sizes can do that.

 

From experience i know that bigger rolling radius / circumference does not always mean using more fuel.

Once you check speeds and distance with GPS or V-Box and tank brims to brims it can put engines in a sweet spot RPM wise and actually give decent economy.

 

But then i only drive Autos / DSG's / CVT's and never bothered about a couple of quid per trip for fuel compared to staying mobile,

& to spending hours or days stuck someplace running an engine to stay warm is not cheap.

It is nice to know you can go off route onto back roads and avoid the grid lock traffic sitting on a Motorway when there in 2"'s of snow compacted.

Yes, fair points.  I don't think I would want to increase the gearing on my car though: it is by no means undergeared.  I wouldn't be able to put those tyres on my alloys anyway; there isn't enough room under the wheel arches.

[Ootohere]

If nothing more robust comes in the size you need then you are stuck with what you can use.

Not easy to find a robust tyre and still a motorway mile muncher, but plenty with Double Cab Pickups do.

 

Fit what ever size is Recommended for your car when Snow Chains are fitted. Or to the same sizes as can be fitted.  Just ones as you asked about in the OP.

But really Puncture Proof is just not really available.

 

That is why i carry a pair of spares in winter.

Edited 13 September, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[scandalxk]

@Roottootemoot Love the picture of the Porsche!  I was at Stiperstones in Shropshire at Christmas a few years ago.  Big, gently sloping car park covered in compacted snow.  I drove in and parked, in my front-wheel-drive car on winter tyres.  We were followed in by a BMW X6 which tried to do the same.  We sat there and watched as the beemer slid slowly backwards, downhill, all four wheel rotating against the skid, while the driver and his wife waved their arms and shouted at each other, until it gently fetched up against the fence at the bottom of the car park.  Classic!

[skomaz]

1 hour ago, scandalxk said:

 

I still suspect that the Crossclimates would be the better compromise.  Look at the tyre rating labels for fuel consumption:  B/C for the Crossclimates, F for the Goodriches and the Geolandars.  I acknowledge that the chunkier tyres would be more robust, but it is a compromise I need.

 

 

 

I've been running Cross Climates on our Octy II TDi 4x4 for a few years now (basically since they came out) and definitely rate them.  We have some bad weather round us in the south Pennines and have had some heavy snow-falls over the years and I've never once got stuck or felt I was in trouble.  They are also quiet and goo din the wet and on the motorway.

 

I'm tempted by the Nokian's or Bridgestone all weather options but would hate to change and find they weren't as good.  The only other option (to me) is the Vredestein Quatrac.  I've used Vred tyres for many years as well and really rate them and the Quatracs also get good reviews.

[scandalxk]

4 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

I've been running Cross Climates on our Octy II TDi 4x4 for a few years now (basically since they came out) and definitely rate them.  We have some bad weather round us in the south Pennines and have had some heavy snow-falls over the years and I've never once got stuck or felt I was in trouble.  They are also quiet and goo din the wet and on the motorway.

 

I'm tempted by the Nokian's or Bridgestone all weather options but would hate to change and find they weren't as good.  The only other option (to me) is the Vredestein Quatrac.  I've used Vred tyres for many years as well and really rate them and the Quatracs also get good reviews.

Thanks Skomaz (shouldn't that be Skomazuki?)  Are they CrossClimates, or CrossClimate SUVs?  If you are running them all year round presumably you have them on the alloys?  (I think mine are the 17" alloys.  Possibly the Scout has bigger wheel arches than the 4x4, but I am not sure.)  And do you have any opinion on whether they are tougher than standard tyres, as well as providing better grip?

[skomaz]

3 hours ago, scandalxk said:

Thanks Skomaz (shouldn't that be Skomazuki?)  Are they CrossClimates, or CrossClimate SUVs?  If you are running them all year round presumably you have them on the alloys?  (I think mine are the 17" alloys.  Possibly the Scout has bigger wheel arches than the 4x4, but I am not sure.)  And do you have any opinion on whether they are tougher than standard tyres, as well as providing better grip?

 

He he - yep I like that - Skomazuki...

 

Anyhow yes I have them on 16" Apollon alloys so they are 205/55/R16 94V XL - A normal 4x4 would have 15" wheels but ours has a number of options on it...

 

In terms of toughness they are probably no better than standard but I do use the XL's with a higher load rating than the standard non-XL's, so they are probably a stronger tyre overall than standard

 

What I would say is that they do have a relatively soft sidewall so I run then a couple of psi higher.  Having said that I've only ever had one puncture which was through the tread...

Edited 13 September, 2019 by skomaz
spelling

[Jeeves]

On 13/09/2019 at 12:54, scandalxk said:

Yes, fair points.  I don't think I would want to increase the gearing on my car though: it is by no means undergeared.  I wouldn't be able to put those tyres on my alloys anyway; there isn't enough room under the wheel arches.

I ran 245/45 18 Goodyear Wrangler AT/R on my Scout II and they were so good I bought 3 sets before they ceased production.  They're on another VW group car just now with with the final set ready to go on.  DOT code shows production was over 10 years ago, but I've stored them in a cool dark place and the H rating is sufficient for the vehicle they're on.

 

The Scout was definitely more stable (even with 10mm extra ride height) at this size with no rubbing issues; so that's your realistic limit if you did consider changing the size/gearing to get something suitable.  Just check the comparison tools like Kouki.

[scandalxk]

5 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I ran 245/45 18 Goodyear Wrangler AT/R on my Scout II and they were so good I bought 3 sets before they ceased production.  They're on another VW group car just now with with the final set ready to go on.  DOT code shows production was over 10 years ago, but I've stored them in a cool dark place and the H rating is sufficient for the vehicle they're on.

 

The Scout was definitely more stable (even with 10mm extra ride height) at this size with no rubbing issues; so that's your realistic limit if you did consider changing the size/gearing to get something suitable.  Just check the comparison tools like Kouki.

 

Thanks.  What is Kouki?

[Jeeves]

Kouki is/was a website with a tyre size comparison tool, but there are plenty of others like willitfit.com which is slightly more technical as it also factor in wheel widths and offsets.

 

I used 18" vRS Zenith wheels which were fine, albeit close.

 

You might just get away with a 225/55 17 as it was the shoulders on a turn which were closest to fouling (about 10mm away/little finger thickness) from memory, and 225 is obviously narrower.

Edited 18 September, 2019 by Jeeves
typo & extra info

[scandalxk]

@Jeeves Thanks.  Clearance is possibly more important with me, because there are quite big stones flying around sometimes on the tracks I am typically driving on.  Doubt I will ever use chains, though.

 

Cheers,

 

scandalxk

[SurreyJohn]

Michelin Latitude Cross ?     

apparently designed for on road and gravel abrasion (never seen them, so can't comment if ok)

 

 

 

 

[scandalxk]

@SurreyJohn Interesting.  Good reviews on the whole. 

 

Thanks.

 

scandalxk

[Ootohere]

I have used them and they were fine but came off in winter when there was snow & snow tyres went on.

[scandalxk]

23 minutes ago, Roottootemoot said:

I have used them and they were fine but came off in winter when there was snow & snow tyres went on.

 

Yes. Some comments said they are good in snow, and I think I saw one which said they are rated "m&s" which I assume means "mud and snow", but Michelin's own website is clear that they are summer tyres.  They also state that they are made of some rubber compound which is highly resistant to gravel abrasion (as @SurreyJohn said), which doesn't sound promising for winter use where the compound is typically softer.

Edited 19 September, 2019 by scandalxk

[Ootohere]

I have used some very good M+S tyres over the years that were not 3 peak rated,

used some 3 peak rated tyres that were neither good in Mud or Snow,

 

I am a rubber fetishist.   

 

The Avon Snow tyres i had on last winter on my Alhambra were very good and i put up a thread and another member had a terrible experience with them.

They would likely suit your use. I had them on until it was time to put the car back and i have not yet and really should have them back on.

**Been up and down a good few miles of Wind Farm access roads and forestery tracks.**

I just have the chains or grippers with me in case needs must and tracks are maybe steep, iced and off camber.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/459700-wv7-snow

 

 

These were cheaper M+S tyres i had for a few years and they were great, but then tyres change, and prices now seem not that much increased from in the past.  I dont buy because of price but because of what works and if they do not work they come off.

Edited 19 September, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[Jeeves]

3 hours ago, SurreyJohn said:

Michelin Latitude Cross ?     

apparently designed for on road and gravel abrasion (never seen them, so can't comment if ok)

 

 

 

 

If I didn't have so many sets I would have fitted these - until Conti's CrossContact ATR came out and widened the choice as they will fit my other car.  However they're  not available in 225/50 17 (without finding my old Dunlop shod Proteus wheel in the garage I can't remember what the Scout OE size was) and I don’t think the LX variant will cut it.

 

I would have no hesitation in fitting the Latitude Cross in 225/55 17 based on my experience of the smaller (by just 1.6mm) Goodyear on forestry tracks - but unfortunately I can't directly share my experience to give the required confidence.

[Guest]

In your situation I would strongly recommend fitting an aftermarket Tyre Pressure Monitoring System; TyrePal, SteelMate to name a few., rather than changing your tyres.

 

I say that based on having been driving for over 30 years and having driven possibly hundreds of vehicles; pool, Duty, Personal, and driven vehicles in conditions and terrain they were not intended for, I can only remember having two punctures.  It is possible I may have had more, but I can only remember experiencing two, and when you take into account that for over 20 years I worked for an organisation where being late was classed as AWOL and could result in a fine, stoppage of leave or both, I think I would remember the squeaky bum moment of trying to return on board on time after getting a puncture whilst on leave!

 

Both my punctures happened on my Scout, within two months of each other, and only a few miles from my home.  One of the punctures was detected by my aftermarket TPMS, but as the other one was not causing air to leak, I only became aware of the nail in the tread whilst washing the car.  Both punctures were repairable, which is fortunate as the Nokians were only a few weeks and a couple of hundred miles old!

 

If you still think more robust tyres are the way ahead for you, you may want to have a look at these Pirelli P7 Cinturato Seal Inside

 

Best wishes,

 

Fin