The only way to be Pro Active if you have one TDI and are not going to be doing longer trips for a week or 2 locally, is walk, cycle, take a bus etc and leave the car parked up.

They are not runabouts really anymore, but then there are hundreds of thousands on the roads that are exactly that, just a car people have.

 

Hundreds of thosands of Light commercials diesels doing stop start journies, deliveries, in towns, cold or warm starts and engines on and off, 

taxis as well, sitting stationary and engine running then a we trip and same again, sitting square wheels, 

not that sitting ticking over for long periods is Simply Clever with a modern / latest TDI.

 

Edited 21 September, 20196 yr by Roottootemoot

1 hour ago, Gmac983 said:

Have you ever had a passive regen' during your 45k? MrTrilby. 

 

You would never know if you have done any sort passive regen or not without diagnostics and logging data.

Edited 21 September, 20196 yr by SuperbTWM

I presume then that the very latest dpf models are much more refined at doing their passive regens' than older ones? My 2012 yeti and 2015 c4 grand Picasso both gently surged whilst cruising, also had slight hesitance when getting on the throttle during passive regen' + plus the usual burning smell fans on etc if passive regen' was cut short. Or perhaps I'm wrong and that's not a passive regen', if so what is? SuperbTWM. Cheers. 

23 minutes ago, MrTrilby said:

If the passive regen means when it idles at 1kRPM, it uses more fuel than normal, and the fans run after switch off if it hasn’t finished then yes, frequently. Maybe as frequent as once or twice per fill of the tank. 

If I understand the terminology correctly what you are describing is an active regen. On page 4 of the thread I quoted in my earlier post there is a long piece quoted from David Bodily, Volkswagen Technical Support Specialist which says:

 

"There are two types of ‘regeneration’, passive and active. 

During long motorway journeys, passive regeneration will occur. This needs no intervention from the engine control unit. Due to the raised exhaust temperatures on a long journey (temperatures between 350 and 500°C), the procedure occurs slowly and continuously across the catalytic-coated (with platinum) DPF. The catalytic-coated DPF is situated close to the Engine, therefore the exhaust gas temperature is high enough (500°C) to ignite the soot particles. Due to this soot is burned-off and is converted into a smaller amount of ash. 



Active ‘regeneration’ is when the ECU intervenes when the soot loading in the DPF is calculated to be 45%. The procedure lasts for about 5 – 10 minutes. Specific measures are taken by the ECU to raise the engine exhaust temperature to above 600°C, these include switching off the exhaust gas recirculation and increasing the fuel injection period to include a small injection after the main injection. The soot particles are oxidised at this temperature. 



The ECU will trigger a regeneration process, if for some reason this is aborted, ie. customer slows down, stops etc, the process will be resumed when regeneration conditions are once again met, above 60km/h (38mph). This will continue for 15 minutes. 

If after 2 attempts of 15 minutes, a successful regeneration has not been possible, the loading will increase."

 

I am thinking that the increased idling speed and the fans running on etc would not happen unless the ECU had intervened, and this would make it an active regen.  The passive regen is a process that happens on a long run when the exhaust gas temperature gets high enough to ignite the soot particles.  Therefore long runs will bring about passive regens lessening the need for active regens.

 

30 minutes ago, Gmac983 said:

That goes to the very heart of the point I'm making here. If you were aware of this whilst driving your routine journeys you could drive as per the handbook method which would aid the regen' process, or indeed continue driving normally for a few moments to allow the passive regen' to its job and finish its cycle. Too many incomplete regens' and you run the risk of the overall dpf warning coming on. 

It seems that for passive regen the length of the journey is what matters most rather than speed or revs, so driving in a particular way on your routine journeys may not aid passive regeneration all that much, and doing long journeys unnecessarily is not really desirable. However, if the soot loading in the DPF has reached a calculated level of 45%, this is where the active regen comes in, or at least it does when regeneration conditions are met. I think this is where you want to aid the process, and where some indication from the system would be helpful.  Ideally we want to be sure that any active regen gets completed successfully, and we would like the opportunity to be active ourselves in making sure that this happens, but we are not getting enough help with this. 

 

 

22 minutes ago, Gmac983 said:

I presume then that the very latest dpf models are much more refined at doing their passive regens' than older ones? My 2012 yeti and 2015 c4 grand Picasso both gently surged whilst cruising, also had slight hesitance when getting on the throttle during passive regen' + plus the usual burning smell fans on etc if passive regen' was cut short. Or perhaps I'm wrong and that's not a passive regen', if so what is? SuperbTWM. Cheers. 

 

What you are describing is an 'active regen' 

 

A passive regen is when the DPF naturally gets up to the temperature required to turn soot into ash with no ECU intervention. For modern cars where they put the DPF right after the turbo this will happen more often than older cars which put the DPF further downstream under the car.

Looking forward to the OP coming back to their thread.

 

 

 

OK I was wrongly assuming then that a passive regen' was when the the car took care of it and an active was when the light had come on and the car needed to be driven at the higher rpms. 

Fine to get that cleared up. 

3 hours ago, Gmac983 said:

 

Yes that's it. 

That goes to the very heart of the point I'm making here. If you were aware of this whilst driving your routine journeys you could drive as per the handbook method which would aid the regen' process, or indeed continue driving normally for a few moments to allow the passive regen' to its job and finish its cycle. Too many incomplete regens' and you run the risk of the overall dpf warning coming on. 

Do you see my point? 

No I don’t see your point. I think you’re over thinking it. It’s a DSG gearbox. The car picks the revs it thinks it needs, and it seems to be doing a fine job of regenerating the DPF as and when it thinks it needs it. Without me needing to modify my driving style, or have the light come on. You just drive it. 

Who cares whether it's auto or manual. The point is increasing revs as per the cars hand book when the dpf light comes on by selecting a lower gear(s). 

First time anyone has ever accused me of over thinking anything😁

In your case you are getting away with it just about with your type of usage. Others my be more marginal. 

1 minute ago, Gmac983 said:

Who cares whether it's auto or manual. The point is increasing revs as per the cars hand book when the dpf light comes on by selecting a lower gear(s). 

First time anyone has ever accused me of over thinking anything😁

In your case you are getting away with it just about with your type of usage. Others my be more marginal. 

I don’t think I’ve seen any forum posts from Kodiaq owners talking about the DPF light coming on. Unless you do entirely very short journeys and interrupt the regen cycle, you won’t see the light and you won’t have any need to force the car into a low gear. 

@Gmac983

I read what is written in the book, and VW Group often write stuff that is covering various engines in various models, but this is not just the same rubbish they print for decades on oil use, oil checks at each time you fill the tank etc.

It is about TDI's.

 

But not everyone needs to set off on a journey only to clead the DPF Blocked message / light ASAP.

They might be going someplace so just set off and drive as they can in the way they can on single carraigeway roads and eventually the Light / Message goes out.

Stuff sitting at ridiculous RPM at stupid speeds, and some maybe in a 95,110ps vehicle, some in 150 or 190 ps and mabye a 240ps vehicle.

Euro 5, Euro 6, 6d Temp etc and things move on.  The one constant is that there are differences as the years go by.

Some with a VW Defeat Device Scandal inspired Fixed Car might well be having Regens like they never had for the years before they trusted VW to sort things.

 

If you want to always take everything VW recommend as gospel then that is all good and well, 

others will do their own thing if the result is the same in the end.   

Edited 21 September, 20196 yr by Roottootemoot

Look I only quoted what is in my  vehicles handbook and previous main dealer advice I have received. Which was in response to other people's posts on here shouting me down for expressing an opinion based on fact just because I had used slightly wrong terminology in regards older model dpf cars. There are far too many people on here who are just grandstanding to get "likes" or who can't bear other people's differing opinions. Yes the latest model dpf cars have very little bother now compared with older generation dpf cars but there are still occurrences, just because people haven't joined (heard of) briskoda and posted about it, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. But since the OP is buying a relatively high performance diesel engined car to do mostly short journeys with little motorway use most everyones post on here are relavent to some extent. In all likely hood the OP will be just fine, my opinion on the subject along with 1 or 2 others was that the OP probably should have bought a petrol car as it better suits his usage and if his dealer was in anyway conscientious they would have told the OP that. 

 

So I'll just sit back now to see who all complains. 

Just a Light Commercial Diesel engine that VW are fazing out used to give Skoda a sporty SUV.

It will be fine.

5 hours ago, MrTrilby said:

No I don’t see your point. I think you’re over thinking it. It’s a DSG gearbox. The car picks the revs it thinks it needs, and it seems to be doing a fine job of regenerating the DPF as and when it thinks it needs it. Without me needing to modify my driving style, or have the light come on. You just drive it. 

If you are thinking that the DSG gearbox is going to adjust the revs to facilitate a regen, then I think you are probably overestimating its capabilities. Its function is merely to select gear ratios appropriate to the car's speed and driving situation, by which I mean situation not related to any regen.  Looking after regens is the job of the ECU.  Mostly you can just drive, as you say, and the car will take care of the regens.  That's OK until it all goes wrong.  Fortunately you have been OK for 45,000 miles, and I have been OK for 30,000 miles, but other posters on here have not been so fortunate.  Maybe, as you suggest, Kodiaq owners have not been greatly affected, and VW/Skoda will no doubt be doing what they can to lessen DPF problems as they design and bring out new models, but the DPFs and regeneration procedures are basically the same whether they are in Kodiaqs, Octavias, Superbs, Golfs, Passats or any other model.

 

Earlier today I was talking to my son-in-law about DPFs, and he said his father had had a lot of DPF problems with his Seat.  They were convinced it was down to using cheap fuel from Tesco, and said the car ran better when they bought the fuel from one of the major brands.  I mostly buy my diesel from Tesco and have had no problems with it.  I think people tend to draw conclusions rightly or wrongly from their own experience, and assume that it applies to everybody else.

 

One person's overthinking may be another person looking to anticipate problems and take early remedial action.

 

4 hours ago, Gmac983 said:

So I'll just sit back now to see who all complains. 

Not me. When I pointed out the terminology thing it was just in the interests of accuracy and nothing personal against you. 

 

22 hours ago, OldBoyScout said:

Earlier today I was talking to my son-in-law about DPFs, and he said his father had had a lot of DPF problems with his Seat.

 

You really need to mention the age of the SEAT.

 

Problems with DPF's, regardless of driving style, on the latest diesel engines are almost non-existent.

 

Like I mentioned earlier, the catalysts fitted to modern DPF's mean that passive regeneration is enough to keep the DPF clear in almost all cases. Active regens are much rarer.

 

The high RPM's and consistent speeds mentioned in the manual is for only if the DPF light has illuminated, which you'll only see if you've interrupted several active regens on the bounce. To do this you have to be really unlucky, or have a fault.

 

There are still a lot of people that remember the days of old i.e. anyone with a PD170 engined MkII Octavia vRS, an engine also used in the Audi A3, VW Golf, SEAT Leon and Ateca of the same era, which really didn't get on well with their DPF's.

 

- Passive regeneration - the soot is burnt off with no intervention from the car.

- Active regeneration - the car recognises resistance in the DPF and initiates a regen i.e higher RPM's.

- Forced Regeneration - when the driver ignores the DPF light and continues driving until the car drops into limp-home mode. The DPF will only regenerate when plugged into the diagnostics (i.e. at a main dealer) and the regen is performed in carefully controlled environment.

 

Edited 22 September, 20196 yr by silver1011

In keeping with the vain of galloping pedanticism on going in this thread. 

42 minutes ago, silver1011 said:

anyone with a PD170 engined MkII Octavia vRS, an engine also used in the Audi A3, VW Golf, SEAT Leon and Ateca of the same era, which really didn't get on well with their DPF's.

Weren't the pd tdi range of engines long defunct before the ateca showed up (from 2016ish), wouldn't it have used the later cr tdi range of engines. 

No doubt someone now will explain in excruciating detail why I'm wrong and they are right. 😉

Sorry, typo, it should have read Altea.

Incidently I owned a 56 plate A3 Quattro with the pd tdi 170 engine and never once had dpf issues with it (was the dpf known as tdv back then on the pd engines?) , had an avalanche of other issues and horrid experiences with the dealer, highland Audi of Inverness. (did a little over 40k with it over 3 years from new). Then later I had a 2012 yeti tdi cr 140 which was always doing regens', although I never did actually have the dpf light come on or any really issues because of that. 

Edited 22 September, 20196 yr by Gmac983

@Gmac983

Sorry but that tells us nothing because you do not say if it was used for short few mile runs much or sitting with the engine running like maybe a taxi might do.

Hundreds of thousands of the various cars might have had no issues if used the way that they might not be prone to issues.

To clarify.

Majority short journeys less than 10 miles at a time some less than 3 miles at a time mon/fri, with slightly longer runs of 20 miles or so at a time at weekends, virtually all on rural b roads and single track lanes. Then occasionally much longer journeys for holidays and that sort of thing, also some idling in winter to defrost the car, perhaps 10 to 15 mins at a time. Dpf issues were not nearly so well documented back then. My car usage hasn't really changed much over the years. I became tired of my later yeti and citroen grand Picasso 1.6 hdi airdream doing repetitive regen's so went back to petrol with my latest kodiaq. Although I never actually did have a fault with the dpf in any car I just did not like it. Time will tell if I ever have any issues with the gpf on my 2.0tsi, I'm lead to believe that gpf's are expected to give less bother than the diesel counterparts due to the higher exhaust gas temp of a petrol engine. 

Edited 22 September, 20196 yr by Gmac983

1 hour ago, silver1011 said:

You really need to mention the age of the SEAT.

It would be one of the earlier DPF Ibizas, but I wasn't intending to go into any detail about the car, I was using it as an illustration of how people come to conclusions based on their own experience. They may be right or they may be wrong. Other people may have very different experiences.  Personally I believe that Tesco diesel is no more harmful than any other brand of normal diesel, and what I have seen online seems to support this.

 

1 hour ago, silver1011 said:

- Passive regeneration - the soot is burnt off with no intervention from the car.

- Active regeneration - the car recognises resistance in the DPF and initiates a regen i.e higher RPM's.

- Forced Regeneration - when the driver ignores the DPF light and continues driving until the car drops into limp-home mode. The DPF will only regenerate when plugged into the diagnostics (i.e. at a main dealer) and the regen is performed in carefully controlled environment.

You missed out the scenario where the DPF light comes on and the driver doesn't ignore it, but drives according to the instructions in the manual. I would say that was the Forced Regeneration, albeit that it may not be successful. Ignoring the DPF light until the car drops into limp-home mode is no kind of regeneration at all.

 

Static regeneration is the one done at the dealership when the other types of regen have failed to solve the problem. You can see this in the video posted above by RootyTooty.

 

I am not saying this to have a go at you. I just think it is important to get this stuff right. I agree with your comments about the modern models being much less affected by DPF issues than the older ones.

 

@Gmac983

Your Audi likely did not have the Defeat Device or maybe it did as they needed trying out before used in the USA.

Your Yeti will have had the defeat device in the ECU / Engine Management.

Vorsprung Durch Technik.

 

Long story short was that they were emitting much more emissions almost all the time than they were supposed to be, and producing the power.

Euro 6 even had some 'at it' and then VW group had to do something like 'actually having emission control / reduction working.' 

yet they have still been caught out yet again with some in the US.

Edited 22 September, 20196 yr by Roottootemoot

3 minutes ago, Roottootemoot said:

@Gmac983

Your Audi likely did not have the Defeat Device or maybe it did as they needed trying out before used in the USA.

Your Yeti will have had the defeat device in the ECU / Engine Management.

Vorsprung Durch Technik.

 

Four sprung duck technique anyone? 

 

Yes.  Lying cheating barstewards.  You were a paying roadtest dummy for them.

7 minutes ago, OldBoyScout said:

It would be one of the earlier DPF Ibizas, but I wasn't intending to go into any detail about the car, I was using it as an illustration of how people come to conclusions based on their own experience.

 

And that's my point. A lot of conclusions people make of DPF's are based on experiences of older, less effective and therefore more problematic DPF's. DPF's that were mated to engines retrospectively.

 

All modern diesel engines have been designed with the DPF being considered during its development, ensuring they work in harmony with the engine hardware and software.

 

7 minutes ago, OldBoyScout said:

You missed out the scenario where the DPF light comes on and the driver doesn't ignore it, but drives according to the instructions in the manual. I would say that was the Forced Regeneration, albeit that it may not be successful. Ignoring the DPF light until the car drops into limp-home mode is no kind of regeneration at all.

 

That's an active regeneration. All you're doing by driving to the parameters set out in the manual after seeing the DPF light is assisting the car to perform an active regeneration, an active regeneration it has been trying to perform but due to driving conditions hasn't been able to.

 

7 minutes ago, OldBoyScout said:

Static regeneration is the one done at the dealership when the other types of regen have failed to solve the problem. You can see this in the video posted above by RootyTooty.

 

This is a forced regeneration. The car has to be forced into regenerating the DPF using instructions fed to the car using diagnostics. Once the car drops into limp-home mode it isn't possible to perform either passive or active regenerations, so the only way to clear it is by forcing it, but the car is stationary

 

This may be why some people call it a static regen, but they're one and the same thing.