Hi everyone, just after a bit of advice really, My Mum has got a 66 plate MK3 Fabia Hatch (NJ3) 1.2 110 DSG with almost 30k miles on the clock, she has told me that her brakes feel a little spongy, so would I be able to bleed the brakes for her?

Just wondering could this be done in the traditional way (one person pumping pedal, one person at the caliper) or using a one person bleed kit? 

I've read on another forum (mostly the VW Polo 6R boys and girls) that there is some need to purge the ABS module?

Has anyone bled their own brakes? if so any advice would be greatly appreciated, if not, no worries, I'll do it the "traditional" way and let you know how it goes.

Cheers guys.  

 

25 minutes ago, Jay6887 said:

Hi everyone, just after a bit of advice really, My Mum has got a 66 plate MK3 Fabia Hatch (NJ3) 1.2 110 DSG with almost 30k miles on the clock, she has told me that her brakes feel a little spongy, so would I be able to bleed the brakes for her?

Just wondering could this be done in the traditional way (one person pumping pedal, one person at the caliper) or using a one person bleed kit? 

I've read on another forum (mostly the VW Polo 6R boys and girls) that there is some need to purge the ABS module?

Has anyone bled their own brakes? if so any advice would be greatly appreciated, if not, no worries, I'll do it the "traditional" way and let you know how it goes.

Cheers guys.  

 

 

You can manually bleed the brakes via the 2 person method or the 1 man bleed kit.

 

There is a method to bleed the ABS pump itself too;

https://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2655853&postcount=5

 

Try the manual method first and see if that helps.

Spongey brakes can also be caused by the pads/discs being very heavily worn.

Thank you for the advice, she had the discs and pads changed about 5k miles back and they're in pretty good nick.

silly question but is bleeding the ABS pump a requirement or will the normal bleed method be sufficient to flush it through? 

Thanks again.

2 minutes ago, Jay6887 said:

Thank you for the advice, she had the discs and pads changed about 5k miles back and they're in pretty good nick.

silly question but is bleeding the ABS pump a requirement or will the normal bleed method be sufficient to flush it through? 

Thanks again.

 

Normal manual method should be sufficient, the ABS purge method with VCDS uses alot of fluid and goes overkill but will make sure it's 100% clear.

 

If it's still spongey after a manual bleed you can always ask a dealer, they'll check safety-related issues for free usually, may end up doing the ABS pump purge for you if you're lucky too.

 

Make sure you don't run out of fluid in the reservoir cos then you will need to do the purge thing!

Excellent, Thank you so much for the advice, I'll be doing some work on her car over the weekend, we'll see if we can bleed them then.

Thanks once again for your help, I'll let you know how it goes.

8 hours ago, Jay6887 said:

would I be able to bleed the brakes for her?

You've got good advice. Just take note that it's better to use a vacuum bleeder than a pressure bleeder, because too much head on a pressure bleeder is what gets air bubbles into the ABS block and hence needs a VCDS bleed.

It has always confused me slightly that pressure bleeder - at least Gunsons one, don't have any way of flushing the "air ahead of the new fluid" out prior to opening the wheel brake bleed valves, and yes now and again someone comments on the possibility of micro bubbles of air getting mixed into the new fluid being forced in under pressure, but I've never ended up with spongy brakes after replacing the fluid.  I must confess to having never bothered to flush the ABS block either probably relying on the slightly higher moisture content still left in the small volume of old brake fluid contained in the ABS equalising out through a higher volume of new brake fluid over the following 2 year period.

 

Main dealerships use pressure bleeding and I've not noticed any initial air purge cycle being carried out prior to drawing old fluid out via the wheel bleed valves.  My problem with vac bleeder is, and I have a MityVac kit and used it once, that unless the bleed valves have been fitted with a "bore seal" and none have been, then you would need to wrap PTFE tape round the threaded areas of the valves to stop drawing air in through there instead of just fluid from the drilled holes in the valves.

 

Edit:- draining as much old fluid out of the reservoir then filling it to the top with new fluid, and making sure that the tube from the pressurised top up bottle is full of new fluid when fitting the cap to the reservoir seems to have worked for me.

Edited 26 September, 20196 yr by rum4mo

2 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

It has always confused me slightly that pressure bleeder - at least Gunsons one, don't have any way of flushing the "air ahead of the new fluid" out prior to opening the wheel brake bleed valves, and yes now and again someone comments on the possibility of micro bubbles of air getting mixed into the new fluid being forced in under pressure, but I've never ended up with spongy brakes after replacing the fluid.  I must confess to having never bothered to flush the ABS block either probably relying on the slightly higher moisture content still left in the small volume of old brake fluid contained in the ABS equalising out through a higher volume of new brake fluid over the following 2 year period.

 

Main dealerships use pressure bleeding and I've not noticed any initial air purge cycle being carried out prior to drawing old fluid out via the wheel bleed valves.  My problem with vac bleeder is, and I have a MityVac kit and used it once, that unless the bleed valves have been fitted with a "bore seal" and none have been, then you would need to wrap PTFE tape round the threaded areas of the valves to stop drawing air in through there instead of just fluid from the drilled holes in the valves.

i believe with the pressure bleeder kits, they actually push more fluid into the reservoir, not air, that way it shouldnt get bubbles in it. Unless you shake the bleeder about or dont put any fluid in the bleeder..

 

3 minutes ago, FabiaGonzales said:

i believe with the pressure bleeder kits, they actually push more fluid into the reservoir, not air, that way it shouldnt get bubbles in it. Unless you shake the bleeder about or dont put any fluid in the bleeder..

 

 

What I was commenting on was that if you just fill the pressurised bottle up and connect it to the car's reservoir, there will normally be a volume of air trapped between the top of the bottle liquid level, the interconnecting pipe  and the screw cap that fits to the reservoir, as well as the free space in the reservoir.  So like it or not, all that air gets compressed and only then can liquid take its place as it is moved out of the pressurised bottle and into the reservoir. The worry for some people is, that some of that trapped and now compressed air breaks through into the new fluid and stays in suspension as micro bubbles.

23 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

 

What I was commenting on was that if you just fill the pressurised bottle up and connect it to the car's reservoir, there will normally be a volume of air trapped between the top of the bottle liquid level, the interconnecting pipe  and the screw cap that fits to the reservoir, as well as the free space in the reservoir.  So like it or not, all that air gets compressed and only then can liquid take its place as it is moved out of the pressurised bottle and into the reservoir. The worry for some people is, that some of that trapped and now compressed air breaks through into the new fluid and stays in suspension as micro bubbles.

 

The pressure bleeder usually has a feeder tube that goes through the cap and then into the fluid. So the fluid is filled up from under the level line. So it pressurises the reservoir and the fluid then gets pushed out through the master cylinder.

25 minutes ago, Tech1e said:

 

The pressure bleeder usually has a feeder tube that goes through the cap and then into the fluid. So the fluid is filled up from under the level line. So it pressurises the reservoir and the fluid then gets pushed out through the master cylinder.

Plus brake fluid is designed to not get bubbles in it, its very unlikely to get micro bubbles suspended in it, its a very dense non-compressible fluid.

 

I think the main reason people mess up is they dont pay attention to how much fluid they have left in their bleeder and the reservoir to begin with. Thats when you can end up getting air in the master cylinder.

27 minutes ago, Tech1e said:

 

The pressure bleeder usually has a feeder tube that goes through the cap and then into the fluid. So the fluid is filled up from under the level line. So it pressurises the reservoir and the fluid then gets pushed out through the master cylinder.

 

Ah well, I can see that I might rebuild one of my older Gunson's Easibleeders to include that feature, as currently the Gunsons pressure bleeder feed pipe stops at the cap level.

3 minutes ago, FabiaGonzales said:

Plus brake fluid is designed to not get bubbles in it, its very unlikely to get micro bubbles suspended in it, its a very dense non-compressible fluid.

 

I think the main reason people mess up is they dont pay attention to how much fluid they have left in their bleeder and the reservoir to begin with. Thats when you can end up getting air in the master cylinder.

 

I'd think so, the only time to run the feeder bottle low/empty is just prior to completing the job, so that when you remove the kit, the reservoir is near enough at the MAX level.

20 hours ago, Jay6887 said:

66 plate MK3 Fabia Hatch (NJ3) 1.2 110 DSG with almost 30k miles on the clock

 

20 hours ago, Jay6887 said:

she had the discs and pads changed about 5k miles back

 

Did they really only last 25 K miles? ( Front, Back or both? )

 

Mine at 37,500 miles on a 2016 Fabia:-

Front brake pads at 10 mm and rear pads at 8mm, with all brakes stripped, cleaned and regreased.

All disk faces are clean, flat and have no rust spots/patches high points. All are original brake parts.

 

Thanks AG Falco

55 minutes ago, AGFalco said:

 

 

Did they really only last 25 K miles? ( Front, Back or both? )

 

Mine at 37,500 miles on a 2016 Fabia:-

Front brake pads at 10 mm and rear pads at 8mm, with all brakes stripped, cleaned and regreased.

All disk faces are clean, flat and have no rust spots/patches high points. All are original brake parts.

 

Thanks AG Falco

My fronts were replaced at 42k, rears at 50k.

Now i'm at 58k, Front drivers side still has 8-10mm left, while the front passengers side has 3-4mm. Warped discs ftw! /s

 

They started out about 15mm ish.

Thanks for all the advice guys.

AG Falco, yes she had a crack in her front offside disc, I had a similar situation with the ATE discs on my car which is the Estate version of my mums, just after about 18k I replaced the discs with Pagid discs and pads.

20 hours ago, Jay6887 said:

AG Falco, yes she had a crack in her front offside disc,

 

Ok that makes sense. Hopefully warranty job?

 

 

20 hours ago, FabiaGonzales said:

Front drivers side still has 8-10mm left, while the front passengers side has 3-4mm. Warped discs ftw!

 

Can you swap either disks or pads from side to side?

 

Thanks AG Falco

45 minutes ago, AGFalco said:

Can you swap either disks or pads from side to side?

I could but i'm going to be doing really low mileage for the next 6-8 months, and by then i'll be putting new discs/pads in anyway. For £56 id rather have fully working, non warped discs and fresh pads