Roomster problems

[PD_Roomster]

The cluster and ecu pins need to match before you can program keys. I think you may need at least one matched key to get the process started too if you aren’t linked to the vag server.
 

I don’t know if you‘ll even need the keys programming to sort it. I’d have thought your keys should already be programmed to the cluster if they’re  original, it’s the replacement ecu pin not checking out ok that’s triggering the immobiliser.

 

Did they give you the cluster PIN number? I thought I’d pulled it from mine at first with my super vag unit but then realised it was just the coding number that you can see in VCDS.

 

If he has pulled the cluster pin, Do you know what they used? Changing the engine ECU pin to match it Is fairly straight forward with VCDS as it’s older tech than the cluster. You’ll still need some other software to pull the current pin of the ECU though as you need that to log in and change it.

 

 

[Bunsen]

Ben ,

one detail you mentioned at start of post was that the Vin number in your replacement ecu was incorrect.

One coding demo I watched had the steps of reading and if different ..changing the Vin number as well as inserting pin from original component 

 

This Vag Com chart tells what Vag com ( as a stand alone system ) can  and can not do do regarding ecu / instrument and key coding :-

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer

 

I have seen you tube coding examples ( from foreign language demos) that use other black box methods and saved factory code files ...but I don't know what age vehicle they work on ..

 

Also as stated earlier dealers will not code second hand parts ..why would they ? If that part then fails and destroys your car they are in the middle.

 

Odis and Geco ( VAG  factory systems) used by the  independent tuners are in another market , Experimental / development ..

Race rally etc ..

Not cheap to use , but unless Someone on forums can tell me of a certain bet elsewhere ..it's my preferred option (only option) ?

 

PD has also  replied pointing to Odis and Geco in earlier responses.

[Bunsen]

Ross tech info from link quoted above ...

To summarise latest cars 2008 on have codes generated at the factory server and are not seen by dealer doing the update.

From replies I've had I can get used modules re-coded by Factory server.

 

Vag Com needs pin codes extracted from donee part as well as original part..otherwise it can not do it per chart below :-

 

 

Immobilizer

 

 

Contents

 [hide] 

• 1What is Immobilizer and why is it important?
• 2Which cars have Immobilizer?
• 3Which Immobilizer System does my Car have and which Procedures are applicable?
  • 3.1Immobilizer Generation 1
  • 3.2Immobilizer Generation 2
  • 3.3Immobilizer Generation 3
  • 3.4Immobilizer Generation 4
  • 3.5Immobilizer Generation 5
• 4What Information is required for Immobilizer Procedures?
• 5How does the 7 digit PIN/SKC work?
• 6What else needs to be done after Keys are matched?

What is Immobilizer and why is it important?

The Immobilizer prevents the car from running unless an authorized key is present and has been properly matched to various components in the vehicle. Several different Immobilizer schemes have been used for different years and different models of vehicles with different procedures that apply to them. The components of the Immobilizer system that require special procedures for replacement include the keys, Engine controller (ECU), and the Instrument Cluster (or the separate Immobilizer modules in vehicles so equipped). In some cases other Modules or Parts may be Immobilizer related as well, for example newer Audi Models also have the Transmission as Part of the Immobilizer.

 

Which cars have Immobilizer?

In the US/Canada, most VW/Audi models prior to model year 2000 did not have Immobilizer. In the rest of the world, Immobilizer usage was introduced earlier. In most vehicles the Immobilizer Control Module is integrated into the Instrument Cluster. Upper Class Vehicles like the current Audi A5, A6, A8 and Q7 have a separate Immobilizer in Address 05 - Acc/Start Authorization. Many of the older non-US market vehicles as well as some US-Market VW Golf Cabriolet (1E) and VW Transporter/Eurovan (7D) have a separate Immobilizer Control Module Address 25 - Immobilizer.

 

Which Immobilizer System does my Car have and which Procedures are applicable?

• The Length of the PIN (4, 5 or 7 digits) it not directly relevant to the Immobilizer Generation/Model.
• Immobilizer Generations are not pinned on a certain Date, they are Model and in some cases even Country/Market specific.

None: Cars without Immobilizer will not have a symbol in the instrument cluster showing a key inside a car and will start and run as long as you cut a new key that is able to turn the ignition. The key may also have a W with a strikethrough to indicate that Immobilizer isn't present. If in doubt, check the Factory Repair Manual for your specific vehicle.

 

Immobilizer Generation 1

Keys for vehicles with Immobilizer 1 usually have a small F on the key blade, which stands for Festcode (Fixed Code). Immobilizer 1 Vehicles were sold in the Rest of World (RoW) Market only, not in the North American Region (NAR). If in doubt, check the Factory Repair Manual for your specific Vehicle.

Immobilizer 1 can also be identified via the Immobilizer Identification/Serial Number. All VW, Seat and Skoda Immobilizer 1 Serial Numbers contain 3Z (for Example VWZ3Z0S1101234), if you see something else there it is unlikely you have this Generation at hand. Audi models as well as the early VW Passat (3B) may show different Serial Numbers, so this does NOT apply to these models.

• Key Matching (separate Control Module)
• Immobilizer I Key Matching (Cluster)|Key Matching (integrated in Instrument Cluster)
• Engine Control Unit (ECU) Swapping
• Immobilizer Control Module Swapping (separate Control Module)
• Immobilizer I Immobilizer Swapping (Instrument Cluster)|Immobilizer Control Module Swapping (integrated in Instrument Cluster)

 

Immobilizer Generation 2

Many 2000-2001 Model Year Vehicles sold in the North American Region (NAR) have Immobilizer 2 and there are other Rest of World (RoW) Vehicles with Immobilizer 2 which started earlier than that around Model Year 1998. To identify an Immobilizer 2 Vehicle, use VCDS to Select the Instrument Cluster (or Address 25 - Immobilizer in Vehicles with a separate Immobilizer Control Module) and look in the Extra Field. You should see a 14 digit Immobilizer ID Number such as Immo-ID VWZ7Z0W0648696. There should NOT be a 17 digit VIN Number in the Extra Fields. If in doubt, check the Factory Repair Manual for your specific vehicle.

The North American Region (NAR) market VW Cabrio used two different generations of Immo 2, depending on whether the vehicle was built before or after 05/1999. Early production NAR Cabrios with 25- Immobilizer part numbers beginning with 6H0 are Immo 2/Gen 2. Later production systems can be identified by the 6X0 serial number which is Immo 2/Gen 3.

• Key Matching (through Instrument Cluster)
• Key Matching (through separate Control Module) > Ross-Tech Website
• Engine Control Unit (ECU) Swapping
• Immobilizer Control Module Swapping (integrated in Instrument Cluster) >  Ross-Tech Website
• Immobilizer II Immobilizer Swapping (Separate)|Immobilizer Control Module Swapping (integrated in separate Control Module)

 

Immobilizer Generation 3

Many 2002 and newer Model Year vehicles sold in the North American Region (NAR) have Immobilizer 3 and there are other Rest of World (RoW) Vehicles with Immobilizer 3 as well. Use VCDS to Select the Instrument Cluster (or Address 25 - Immobilizer in Vehicles with a separate Immobilizer Control Module) and look in the Extra Field. You should see BOTH a 14 digit Immobilizer ID number and ALSO a 17 digit VIN number in the Extra fields like this: WVZKB58001H231169 VWZ7Z0W0648696. The first 17-digit string is the VIN and the second 14-digit string in the Immobilizer ID. Keys that have been previously matched to a different Immobilizer 3 System cannot be reused with another one (which has a different Immobilizer ID). In some cases, you'll need to check in the Engine Control Module in Measuring Value Block (MVB) 081 to see the VIN and Immobilizer ID. If in doubt, check the Factory Repair Manual for your specific vehicle.

• Key Matching (through Instrument Cluster)
• Key Matching (through separate Control Module)
• Key Matching (through Kessy)
• Engine Control Unit (ECU) Swapping
• Injection Pump Swapping (V6 TDI only)
• Immobilizer Control Module Swapping (integrated in Instrument Cluster)
• Immobilizer III Immobilizer Swapping (Separate)|Immobilizer Control Module Swapping (integrated in separate Control Module)
• Immobilizer Control Module Swapping (integrated in Kessy)
• Immobilizer III Measuring Blocks (Ross-Tech Website)

Immobilizer Generation 4

Many newer cars including all of the Golf/Jetta (1K) Models use Immobilizer 4. There are different varieties of Immobilizer 4 Implementations, some of them don't show a 14-digit Immo-ID anywhere, but rather a "Challenge" Value in Advanced ID. This Challenge changes every Time Terminal 15 (Ignition) is cycled.

As a general rule, VW models using Immo 4A (with Adaptation) may have Serial Numbers that contain VWZ (for Example VWZ7Z0G7051888). VW models using VWX (for Example VWX7Z0G7051888) "or ones without a Serial Number shown at all, do not use Adaptation and will have the revolving "Challenge" Value in Advanced ID. Those systems using a Challenge Value are not considered supported at this time. This means with challenge systems, VCDS cannot perform ANY of the procedures listed below:

• Key Matching
• Engine Control Unit (ECU) Swapping
• Immobilizer Control Module Swapping (integrated in Instrument Cluster)
• Immobilizer IV Immobilizer Swapping (Kessy)|Immobilizer Control Module Swapping (integrated in Kessy)

Immobilizer Generation 5

Ross-Tech does not support Immobilizer 5 procedures at this time.

 

What Information is required for Immobilizer Procedures?

VCDS can match Keys to your Car, but only if you have the specific PIN Code for your particular Car. Prior to 2002, some vehicles were delivered with a scratch-off Panel on a Plastic Tag] that contained the 4 digit PIN Code, some Manufactures like Seat and Skoda used this methods up until 2008. Prior to April of 2005 (US only), it was possible for Vehicle Owners to go to their Dealer with Proof of Ownership and the VIN and Immo-ID (the latter can be read with VCDS). The Dealership would punch that Information into an Online System that would give them the PIN. At that point they were able to give it to you. Unfortunately VW/Audi has eliminated that System and now the dealer never sees the PIN. The GeKo System sends it directly to the Dealers' Scan Tool, which sends it to the Car and does the Key Matching - without ever showing the PIN to anyone.

There are Locksmith Supply Companies that sell Products that purport to be able to extract PIN Codes, which could then be used by VCDS. Just as they sell Lockpicking Tools to legal Users, those Tools could also be used for Criminal Purposes and as a Result, we do not sell or recommend them.

For the US Market the National Automotive Service Task Force (NASTF) has been working with automakers including VW to hopefully provide some form of access to Immobilizer information using the Secure Data Release Model (SDRM).

erWin offers some Immobilizer and Pass-Thru solutions which are mentioned under the notes section of our Official Factory Repair Information page.

The following Chart shows what Information is needed to perform each Procedure. The Requirements and Steps differ depending on whether the Component you are installing is brand new, or if it has been previously matched to a Vehicle. Please understand that this is a general Chart and there may be exceptions!

 

	Immobilizer 1 & 2	Immobilizer 3	Immobilizer 4	Immobilizer 5
Key Matching (New)	Original/Car PIN needed	Original/Car PIN needed	Original/Car PIN needed	N/A
Key Matching (Used)	Original/Car PIN needed	Not Supported	Not Supported	Not Supported
ECU Swapping (New)	No PIN needed	Original/Car PIN needed	Original/Car PIN needed	N/A
ECU Swapping (Used)	No PIN needed	Original/Car PIN needed and Used ECU PIN needed	Original/Car PIN needed and Used ECU PIN needed	N/A
Cluster Swapping (New)	Original/Car PIN needed	Original/Car PIN needed and Replacment Cluster PIN needed	Original/Car PIN needed  and Replacement Cluster PIN needed	N/A
Cluster Swapping (Used)	Used Cluster PIN needed	Original/Car PIN needed and Replacement Cluster PIN needed	Original/Car PIN needed and Replacement Cluster PIN needed	N/A

How does the 7 digit PIN/SKC work?

Our Manual has a Page dedicated to the 7-digit PIN/SKC Dialog in VCDS.

You must enter the following Information:

• 7-digit SKC that the Dealer retrieved for your exact Immobilizer ID Number.
• Date on which the 7-digit SKC was retrieved by the Dealer.
• Workshop Code (WSC) for the Dealer that retrieved the SKC.
• Importer Number for the dealer that retrieved the SKC.

The 7-digit SKC is useless without the other three Items.

Unlike the Factory Diagnostic Tools, with VCDS, the same PIN can be used for a particular Car at any Time in the Future, as long as you keep track of the PIN, along with the Date on which the PIN was retrieved by the Dealer, the Dealer's Workshop Code (WSC) and the Importer Number.

 

What else needs to be done after Keys are matched?

On most Vehicles the Immobilizer is separate from the Remote Controls, so these would need to be matched separately and Details for these Procedures can be found on the Model specific Pages of our WIKI. An Exception to this Rule are those Vehicles with Keyless Access and Start (KESSY), for those the Remote Controls are usually being matched automatically together with the Immobilizer.

 

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[Ben2019]

Well, I'm lucky as I said at the start my car is a 2006, The locksmith had two machines with him one was an Advanced Diagnostics top end model which read the cluster pin code (impressive bit of kit). He checked with Hinkleys over the phone and they advised using Vag.Com commander to get it sorted out which he did not have in the van. (unfortunately most locksmiths tend to use industry made locksmith tools and not automotive tuning and diagnostic tools).

I have the pin from the cluster and have contacted Skoda for the pin codes from when the car was made, as it was one of their garages that sold me the car I don't think they will quibble about supplying them. Also approached them to quote for reprogramming using their system in case there is nobody local who can do it.

Just a question of wait and see.

[Ben2019]

OK BIG step forward today!

Yesterday I had a really nice guy from Gelautomotive came out to pair the ECU and Instrument Cluster, The ECU just didn't want to play ball, we tried both ECU's, confirmed that the one the seller had said was the original wasn't and that ECUTesting didnt do such a good job of testing it. (I'd asked them to confirm the vin no in the ECU matched mine, they said it did, we found out yesterday it didn't)

In short after a couple of hours out in the dark, the ECU was not communicating, so both ECU's went off to have the details from the other original swapped to the replacement 'original'. 

Was told it would be a couple of days but I had a really great surprise this morning when they rang and said its done and they would be out by 12 to fix it in.

Turns out the original ECU that came with the car was a brick, totally fried, no data could be got from it.

They managed to get a virgin software that programs the ECU as if it was brand new and reflashed that into the ECU replacing the corrupt files.

ECU fitted to car, key in the ignition and the engine started. Immobiliser didnt kick in! Problem solved I have a running Roomster!

I cannot recommend Gelautomotive enough, they came out to me even though I was out of their normal area. They really pulled out all the stops to solve the problem and got me back on the road.

They got the replacement keys to be recognised by the immobiliser and start the car but we needed to get the locksmith is coming out again to reprogram the key fobs to the central locking frequency.

My only jobs now are to get the electric windows working now and the rear wash wiper sprayer, may be a quick fix but not sure.

[Bunsen]

Ben, well done , you have beaten me to a result !

The imfo you started with and initial fault diagnostics was bang on then ...No Vin Code in ECU ( for your car) .. so that needed fixed .. and sounds like it needed re flashed (hard memory wiped from eprom)? to allow your car details ..Vin , and pin code to be entered.

Also engine maps etc..

 

I am still taking baby steps with mine ...more time researching all the new electronics .. and how not to break them while testing ..

 

I bought the official Skoda manual on line for £8  to check what relays do what ..earth point locations .. battery test procedures..

It also describes maintenance re-set light procedures using dash clock button and buttons on end of wash wipe stalk.. 

(4 or 5 methods depending on age /model ).

 

I have tested relays under dash ..(including X relay that cuts load to non essential electrics on starter operation, including installing jumper test lead on pin 5 to see voltage dip  to 10 or 11 volts and return to 12.6v ) all are good..

I am still waiting for replacement dash ( with Immobiliser) ,, emailed seller ,,no response ...PIA.

On the positive side Two brand new keys arrived today ,, unused original Skoda parts.. plus two new blank blades to cut to my car..

 

Pulled the Can Bus convenience unit from under dash .. that was dry .. all contacts clean ..no burnt smell

 

Re windows ..I changed my OSF window motor that filled with water at the start of my issues, for good measure I changed the master window switch in that door too ...

 

Got all the windows up and down on all doors on their switches ... but master would not control them ... then stopped working ...disconnected and charged battery ,,, windows worked again  then stopped again !

 

I know about the design that if motor overloaded it trips out and then re-sets ...may be associated to this function, but why all windows..

there is a window lock button in middle of master door switch .. the master is brand new TPS part.. light on the lock worked properly ..  

 

On your car common window faults :-

 Pop the door electric feed rubber bellows off the a pillar by pressing down and back  ..if you look in side you will find cracked insulation or snapped wires ..common on fabias.. mine were cracked so used two pack epoxy to encapsulate the two affected wires ..

you can buy heat shrink soft solder bullets that I find make a very neat reliable repair when cable snapped ...

 

To take your door trim off (to check for water in window motor / Control Module)  mine had to pop inner door handle trim .. remove screw top and bottom of handle location ...two screws bottom edge of door... grab bottom LH RH of door and yank out ...then push up.. to release two clips in top edge ..and trim edge hooked in to rubber .. Motor controller plastic electric connectors are very brittle ...if motor is dry ..fill gaps in connectors with your favourite silicon grease ..Vaseline etc ( worked well for 45 years   on my winter motorcycles keeping water out)

 

 

 

Factory manual identifies tow electric box under drivers seat on MY14 ,, so as I have tow kit I will check this out for water ingress ..Carpets were soaked when my windows opened themselves .. so I think pull this unit and dry it see if that helps issues (don't see why it could all driving lights work well. Excepting the fact it will be plugged in to the can bus. 

 

I think I will also need to run a 40 m long power cable to my car and  leave a heater over night to dry it out !

 

I have looked at your Coding guys website and he looks like he has all the right factory tools /links ..I will give him a call and see what he can do for my car ...( when the dash panel / immobiliser arrives ) ..

I have AA homestart / recovery  could get car uplifted to him if he has confidence in a fix..

 

 

 

 

[PD_Roomster]

Great news! I don't think you need software to program the remote side of it unless there were too many remote fobs already allocated to the car. That used to be the case anyway. Also, I thought the remote side was already working too, from an earlier post? You could just swap over the remote fob part of the keys that work if that’s the case.

 

Id read that the virgin software was how you did the immobiliser off function on the ecu. Is the immobiliser key/car symbol extinguished now, once it’s running, or is it still blinking?

[Ben2019]

Hi,

I have one original key which works, two generic replacement keys which were cut and programmed to be accepted by the immobiliser so they will start the car but the transmitter needs to be tweaked to do the central locking. The locksmith told me it was the correct type of key but apparently he needs to do something to get the buttons to be recognised.

 

The virgin software enabled the ECU to pair with the immobiliser as if it was new from the factory, it learned the instrument cluster codes when connected and the ignition was turned on. The immobiliser light is now behaving normally and go's out when the key is turned in the ignition.

 

Have found out where two out of the four loose screws I found go and have a suspicion where the other two go. The last mechanic to work on it before me must have had an off day because the comfort unit is skewed in its mounting bracket. It looks like someone just shoved it in there. Unfortunately one of the securing tabs broke off when they did this. It might account for the windows not working so have to check it out along with a few other possibilities.

I'm definitely learning more about the Roomsters build everyday.

[Bunsen]

Ben  persistence pays ...Result today !

After leaving a radiator in the car for a month to dry it out ( after lifting soaking carpets and removing electrics to dry in side house) ..I previously installed new drivers door motor and winder switch due to water ingress , repaired insulation at door hinge..

Turned ignition on today ..still Imobiliser killed engine and no start lights ..

Went through fuse block today working fuses in and out and flexing wires feeding it ..and dash came back to life ...( under dash fuse block) 

Started and ran without Imobiliser killing it.

Checked window operation that had all stopped working ... Everything back up and running as it should ..

 

Did not change instrument cluster or any other modules... Drying car out before getting at it again was my main worry .

[Ben2019]

That's really good news.

I've put a few dehumidifier bags in the car to dry it out as it feels damp but that could be the weather.

 

I'm still trying to get my car sorted out, only have the spare key remotes to match and the electric windows to sort out.

Thankfully the EGR light has finally gone out, I used a can of Wynns to clean it then gave it a good in situ clean by hand.

I did try something on the audi forums to get it to go out (taking the instrument cluster fuse out and putting it back in) but it only caused the airbag light to come on.

I did upgrade the battery to a Varta with greater amperage, best thing i've done to date as it starts with no hesitation even when cold (its been between 2 and 3 degrees here of late) so that's a bonus.

 

The first problem with the keys is a good lesson. Never buy the cheap chinese ones from ebay. The ones I got new turned out to have faulty transmitters, they cycled up and down frequencies not just transmitting on one. In the end I bought two second hand skoda keys with the same transmitter part number, turned out cheaper as well, all you need do is replace the transponder chip and blade.

 

I'm definitely going to invest in vcds at some point, it'll give me a heads up before its MOT.