Which type of clutch/Flywheel

[eldrak21]

Hello everyone,

 

I have booked my car into getting the DMF and clutch changed over in a couple of weeks. The garage asked if I am providing my own parts or would I like them to provide, I stated them to provide however in some way I would prefer to shop around and see if I can get the parts on a better deal eg. EuroCarParts blackfriday deal or some such.

My query is, how do I find out the particular clutch and DMF that my car needs? ECP states there are two different types for my car. DMF coming in at either 240mm or 287 mm.

When I took it to a different  garage to query what I now know is the DMF failing they said they wouldn't know until they open her up. Is that the case or is it marked somewhere first?

I am also interested because I need the car and wouldn't like the garage to take longer than is neccesary eg, open her up, order parts, fit parts and all of this taking longer than a day. This garage isn't particularly local and is quite a trek to get to especially given my personal circumstances just now however they are half price of competitors and are very friendly/have a nice atmosphere. They are also customers to the business I work for I have have never felt they may rip me off.

 

I have checked through the owners manual but can't see any information.

 

Edit:  I have the 1.9tdi 2007 4x4 with 6speed box

Edited 24 November, 2019 by eldrak21

[alessio92]

I find that really odd. Every garage I've taken my car to hasn't had a problem with doing the clutch in a day. LuK is the brand you want though. Not sure about sizes, but if you go to Andrew Page or GSF and give them your registration, they should be able to tell you from your system?

[Vrsburnzy]

Your engine code should tell them what size clutch to use, historically 4wd vehicles have used the 240mm clutch, but without looking into it I couldn’t tell you for sure.

[david2014]

https://webcat.borgandbeck.com/Home                     these are useful for model & parts cross ref info.

[eldrak21]

10 hours ago, alessio92 said:

I find that really odd. Every garage I've taken my car to hasn't had a problem with doing the clutch in a day. LuK is the brand you want though. Not sure about sizes, but if you go to Andrew Page or GSF and give them your registration, they should be able to tell you from your system?

 

Thank you for the information. I think the garage mentioned that timescale as a just in case scenario. It's a Father and Son operation and I think they were planning on getting the car Monday, see what parts it needed then ordering them in which may take a day or three? It's a nice old school type of garage. There labour costs are pretty much half of competitors.

4 hours ago, Vrsburnzy said:

Your engine code should tell them what size clutch to use, historically 4wd vehicles have used the 240mm clutch, but without looking into it I couldn’t tell you for sure.

Thank you

 

1 hour ago, david2014 said:

https://webcat.borgandbeck.com/Home                     these are useful for model & parts cross ref info.

Thank you also

[alessio92]

On 28/11/2019 at 21:33, eldrak21 said:

 

Thank you for the information. I think the garage mentioned that timescale as a just in case scenario. It's a Father and Son operation and I think they were planning on getting the car Monday, see what parts it needed then ordering them in which may take a day or three? It's a nice old school type of garage. There labour costs are pretty much half of competitors.

Thank you

 

Thank you also

Re: timescale, if they're in a town where there's a Euro/GSF/Andrew Page or other supplier within, say, an hours' drive, they should be able to get them same day (that's normal service). But maybe if they're low on manpower it's just a safety net so they don't overpromise, underdeliver

[ruffday]

Depend where they are. I work in a Motor factors and being in a big city we can normally gat parts out to a garage within an hour of them ordering parts. If we don't have it then we pull from our warehouse which will add another hour as long as it is stocked.

LUK or Sachs are what we normally supply.

[928nic]

My old BMM 2ltr 4x4 clutch was a LUK self adjusting clutch and was a PITA when i had to remove it and reset it 😛 .
If its not installed correctly the clutch wont work as i found out when i did an engine swap to a 16v BKD lol

 

https://gyazo.com/60927a3ea7777c0b177db01ec76b2958

 

https://gyazo.com/7eb6cf4fcfcdb0ff243e89f9d1d246d0

 

https://gyazo.com/83cefb0364f9a2b8e6766af3c544869b

[eldrak21]

Thanks again all.

Well, this is a bit of an unusual situation....

I took the car into the garage today and left it with them. The reason for the timescale estimate was because they had not initially diagnosed the faults so they wanted time to check over the car, then order parts as/when needed then fit etc.

 

A bit of the back story:  The first garage I took the car to a long time ago could not diagnose the very loud rumbling noise coming from the rear of the car (sounding over the rear axle) when in 5th and 6th gear and only at a certain rev/speed range. I started reading through this & other forums to get some information as to what it may be. After reading, I guestimated it could be the prop shaft, a potentially very expensive fix.

 

To be certain, I took the car to the VAG specialist in the nearest town and left it with them. They phoned me later that day and said the noise is a buggered flywheel which is causing the vibration to run to the back of the car and be heard there. They also said the turbo is on the way out (turbo whine which I could hear a little of anyway, but only a little). They pointed out that the tester knew straight away about the flywheel as he could feel it in the clutch pedal. I was extrememley surprised but hey, they are 'specialists'. Thinking back now I don't think they done anything other than take of for a quick spin and then come back with the conclusion of a flyweel. For clutch, flywheel & turbo, this garage quoted £2600, almost as much as I paid for the car a couple years ago. Needless to say I was pretty shocked and feeling, oh ffs not another effing car!

 

Fast forward to the garage I left it at today. The people are one of our customers for the business I work for and I just queried out of curiosity many months ago about these potential problems. After chatting to them & feeling quite reassured by their manner I asked them to give me a quote for the above work which came back at roughly £1100 but using a recon turbo instead of new. There was a glimmer of hope that I could actually save the car. It is probably my favourite car I've had & it has been well looked after by the previous owner.

So, the garage phoned me back today to say they had removed the starter motor to get access to the clutch and could see that it looks in exceedingly good condition given it's done 190k. They think it may have been changed a few 10k's ago but judging from the massive folder of receipts I have from previous owner (who even kept lightbulb receipts from skoda garage) I can't see any info about a clutch change. They could hear the rumble when they test drove it. They also said they checked the propshaft bearings and everything seems fine. They also said there is only a very light misting of oil around the turbo and certainly nothing that indicates it's mileage. There is only the very tiny whine which they say is nothing to worry about. In short they are quite impressed by the condition.

 

So, I was passing through the area with the works van today and I popped into see if any further development. The owner said he has a suspicion that one of the engine mounts is actually needing changed and that could be the cause of the vibration felt at the back whilst in a particular rev/speed range. He said he suspects this as a similiar issue had occured recently with another car he was working on. He phoned up the VW group who stated that one mount in particular is prone to going so my garage ordered the part from Euro car parts (cheaper) which is being delivered & fitted tomorrow.

I have my doubts that it could only be a mount but I trust these people. They seem genuine, nice and fair.

If it DOES turn out to just be an engine mount then damn, am I going to be one very happy person! And if it is, then wtf to that VAG specialist garage! But, I shall wait and see!

 

Fingers crossed

 

Edited 2 December, 2019 by eldrak21

[eldrak21]

Hello all. I would like to update you all in case anyone else finds themselves in my situation.

 

The garage phoned today to say they had fitted the gearbox mounting which made a difference to the noise levels but its still there. The garage mentioned they will replace another mount and get back to me. So hopefully tomorrow everything will be good to go after another mount change

[928nic]

awesome  

[Gives-you-wings]

Fingers crossed for you. Any idea on part number for the engine/gearbox mount at all?

[eldrak21]

On 04/12/2019 at 21:40, Gives-you-wings said:

Fingers crossed for you. Any idea on part number for the engine/gearbox mount at all?

 

Thank you. I dont have the part number but I can ask as I need to take the car back to check something out.

There was a bit of a mixup with the garage in understanding what the problem with the car was.

Changing the mounts has resolved one issue which I thought was connected to 'the' issue I was taking the car in for to get checked so when I picked up the car, the problem is still there. I shall try to explain better.

Basically I am getting a loud rumbling noise coming from the rear axle area when I'm at 70mph in 6th gear and also, 30mph in 5th and 40mph in 6th. The specialist garage I took it too diagnosed the problem as a clutch & flywheel issue. It quite surprised me given the location and vibration only at certain revs/speed but they are a specialist so 'shrug'

The garage that done the work, who said the clutch & flywheel is fine, didn't concentrate on that loud rumbling noise as they were not properly aware of it. I had explained to them about that noise but they must have thought I was badly explaining the issue which caused them to change the mounts. When I picked up the car yesterday just after their closing time, it wasn't until I was a little distance away that I noticed a problem that wasn't there before. When driving slowly in 2nd gear (+ [prob 1st) when I take my foot off the accelerator there is almost a second delay then a thud/knocking noise coming from the gearbox/engine compartment. It's the same when I rev when still, there's a slight delay then a knock which is felt in the car.

I phoned them this morning and will take the car back tomorrow after work (they are not too close unfortunately) and I also explained to them in better detail about that loud rumbling noise. I suggested one of them join me in the car so I can show them that noise.

Regarding that rumbling noise I pointed out what was my original thoughts when first looking at the forums over a year ago, that it is possibly propshaft or haldex related issue. The guy from the garage said they went over all the prop & suspension components (commented how great condition they are for it's mileage and age) and said they couldn't find anything.

I can only speculate but the haldex system is now raising an eyebrow because..... *pause for breath*   the noise at 70mph only developed after taking the car in for a haldex oil and filter change a while back. The noise at the lower speeds were there before the change though.

It is confusing and I hope not expensive. I have had far too many cars fudge up on me and I want to keep this one. It's great condition for it's age, drives amazingly (apart from that rumbling), and I'm still paying off the loan for this plus the last car that fudged up on me.

If anyone can offer any insight as to the rumbling it would be greatly appreaciated

Also that knocking noise that has now developed

[Gives-you-wings]

Wow, thanks for the detailed response. Must admit, i have similar issues with my Scout, and that is on 170k. Drives great most of the time, but i have this banging some times that feels like it is right under my feet, as well as the rumble when the engine is labouring, say 40mph in 6th. Just assumed it was normal, as the engine was straining. Il wait and see what happens with yours first. Please keep me posted

[Anddenton]

7 minutes ago, Gives-you-wings said:

Wow, thanks for the detailed response. Must admit, i have similar issues with my Scout, and that is on 170k. Drives great most of the time, but i have this banging some times that feels like it is right under my feet, as well as the rumble when the engine is labouring, say 40mph in 6th. Just assumed it was normal, as the engine was straining. Il wait and see what happens with yours first. Please keep me posted

A rumble when the engine is labouring does tend to be flywheel related.

 

@eldrak21 I have heard before of garages draining the rear diff then refilling the haldex not realising these two items are separate - I do hope this isn't the case though......

[928nic]

1 hour ago, Anddenton said:

A rumble when the engine is labouring does tend to be flywheel related.

 

@eldrak21 I have heard before of garages draining the rear diff then refilling the haldex not realising these two items are separate - I do hope this isn't the case though......

I agree re the flywheel . my 4x4 does it too . I also had the clutch apart recently and it still does it (but drives 100%). I had to do the job (gearbox out) twice as i didnt realise the clutch was self adjusting , so i had to purchase the self adjusting clutch tool to reset it , what a PITA . lol

[Gives-you-wings]

7 hours ago, 928nic said:

I agree re the flywheel . my 4x4 does it too . I also had the clutch apart recently and it still does it (but drives 100%). I had to do the job (gearbox out) twice as i didnt realise the clutch was self adjusting , so i had to purchase the self adjusting clutch tool to reset it , what a PITA . lol

Yes, I tend to think that until it affects the actual drive, and gets worse, that it can stay as it is. Just a sign of the engine laboring, so change down a gear. Maybe its the Ostrich approach, but I can live with that. Its the clunk/knock that is more frustrating. Seems to go away when its wet out 

[928nic]

38 minutes ago, Gives-you-wings said:

Yes, I tend to think that until it affects the actual drive, and gets worse, that it can stay as it is. Just a sign of the engine laboring, so change down a gear. Maybe its the Ostrich approach, but I can live with that. Its the clunk/knock that is more frustrating. Seems to go away when its wet out 

Have you checked the lower most engine stabiliser ? it goes from the base of the gearbox side of the motor(engine) to the cross member at the steering rack. Its at a low enough point that if its raining it will easily get wet.
When i did my engine swap from BMM to BDK the motor rocks like all hell without it so maybe the bush is toast .  Theres 2 bushes one in the bracket and one on the cross member if i recall .
this is the bracket for ref https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Rear-Steady-Bar-Engine-Mount-For-VW-Jetta-1K-BXE-BKD-BVY-TDI-FSI-Auto-Manual/132549430931

[eldrak21]

21 hours ago, Anddenton said:

A rumble when the engine is labouring does tend to be flywheel related.

 

@eldrak21 I have heard before of garages draining the rear diff then refilling the haldex not realising these two items are separate - I do hope this isn't the case though......

 

Thank you. The garage said they checked the clutch and flywheel and found them to be in great condition so fingers crossed.

Draining the rear diff crossed my mind a long time back but as the garage had problems with the haldex plug I am sure that is not the case this time. Basically (it was a different garage not the one doing the work just now) when unscrewing the haldex filter a piece of metal came off which meant the garage had to using liquid metal to recreate the plug hole for the cap to screw back into. The garage had the car a few days for this until they were satisfied there was no haldex oil leak.

 

I popped into the garage today for a chat & booked the car in again for January. The mechanic is inclined to think that my deep rumbling noise is due to the silencer on the car. He says that because the silencer is rust free and has been on the car for 12 years he thinks that the plates inside have come away causing the vibration between certain speeds/revs.

He checked over the propshaft, suspension components, rear bushes etc and said the are in great condition for its age and mileage (190k) so is ruling that out.

He will also check the oil in the haldex system due to a concern I have from the last time I had the haldex oil & filter done by another garage.

[eldrak21]

The knocking noise that has since developed after the mount changes, the mechanic thinks could be the bushes on the front dog mount (I'd never heard of this part before )

He thinks that because the mounts were changed, the engine isn't moving the way it was when they were damaged so that knocking noise could be highlighting an issue that was also masked by the dodgy mounts.

 

He will check it out when I take the car back in January

[eldrak21]

21 hours ago, Gives-you-wings said:

Wow, thanks for the detailed response. Must admit, i have similar issues with my Scout, and that is on 170k. Drives great most of the time, but i have this banging some times that feels like it is right under my feet, as well as the rumble when the engine is labouring, say 40mph in 6th. Just assumed it was normal, as the engine was straining. Il wait and see what happens with yours first. Please keep me posted

 

No worries. I wasn't trying to be too long winded    I always wanted the scout but due to cost, I settled on the 4x4 instead. I love the look of the scout though

Hopefully it turns out to be the silencer or something simpler (and cheaper).

 

I'll keep you all posted when anything else happens.

 

Thanks all for your responses

[ruffday]

It might be worth looking at the tyres ref the rumbling noise. It has in the past been an issue with the way the tyres wear. Maybe try swapping wheels around front to rear or maybe another set of wheels if you could borrow a set. Might be way off but worth a look.

[eldrak21]

36 minutes ago, ruffday said:

It might be worth looking at the tyres ref the rumbling noise. It has in the past been an issue with the way the tyres wear. Maybe try swapping wheels around front to rear or maybe another set of wheels if you could borrow a set. Might be way off but worth a look.

 

Thank you but I have changed the full set of tyres already. The noise was there before hand on a full set on dunlop sport bluresponse and is the same on a full set of Michellin crossclimate+ The noise also goes away when I put my foot on the clutch at speed.

[eldrak21]

Hello all, here is a bit of an update to this ongoing saga - and it's still ongoing  😭

 

 

The flywheel is definatley not perfect as was suggested but the mechanic doesn't think it's worth changing at the moment. I think his reasoning is partly related to my cash flow as well as his general outlook.

The rear silencer is fine, that's not the issue.

 

 After picking up the car the mechanic advised that he found small bits of metal when he renewed the haldex oil (it's only done about 5 or 6k since the last haldex oil change) but he is sure that the haldex is not the problem. He topped up the rear diff oil and said it took about 100ml. He said the diff oil was quite smelly ( I actually forgot to ask him to change the diff oil but he is going to do so before MOT next month). He also pointed out that there was a little oil around the driveshaft seals.

He can't say exactly where that very loud rumbling noise is coming from and recommends to keep driving it until it gets worse and becomes easier to diagnose. I am not particularly in favour of this as for me, it has gotten a lot worse already!

The noise dissapears when I put my foot on the clutch and sometimes it's hard to have a conversation with someone in the back due to them not hearing me properly over the noise as it comes from the rear.

He reiterated that the propshaft bearings etc are good.

He knows I don't have a lot of cash to spare and is doing what he can to assist but I need to know whats up so I can better decide what to do! Yes the flywheel needs done which I would do but I am not inclined to do so if something like the rear diff is also needing replaced. I love this car, LOVE it and I want to keep it but realistically ....

 

Unfortanately my last car unexpectedally had problems which meant getting rid of it suddenly. I had to take out a loan to cover remaining finance plus buy another (this octavia) so for this car to now be in this position, I am a bit up ****'s creek.

 

If anyone can offer any suggestions it would be much appreciated 🙂

[Anddenton]

If the noise disappears when you dip the clutch then surely it's the DMF? All the rest of the transmission keeps turning so would keep making a noise?