Fuel consumption.

[Gerrycan]

On 20/04/2020 at 05:05, Kole said:

This is my best run. Never thought i could go any lower than 4.5 l/100kilometers which became a regular consumption. This was a combined open road and cross city trip. There was lots of traffic since it was a very busy Monday.

Couple of overtakes and air con being used in intervals. Mostly light foot accelerations in towns and using engine braking for gliding before coming to a full stop.

 

No slip streaming and no hills, mostly level roads no downhills. Car is an SEL manual 1.5 TSI with a 24E patch for 'rooing. High octane premium gas and factory Hankook 17 inch tyres were at 2.5 bar pressure.

Perhaps it can go even lower than this 66 mpg stat. Ironically I was driving via Sport mode. Will try the same route with Eco mode next time I get the chance. Adaptive cruise control was on for 90 percent of the drive set to 80 kph (legal limit).

 

That is a very good result even allowing for possible display optimism.

The fact you achieved that average speed with a 80 kph max says that the conditions were near ideal for economy (heavy flowing traffic = slipstreaming benefits) + good economy driving techniques 👍

One thing that does surprise me a bit is that you say your manual car has adaptive cruise control fitted? Not sure how that would work in traffic?

[gSvrs]

well 10k now

still only  getting 40 to 47 mpg 

had car since sept on 69 plate 

[gSvrs]

On 01/03/2020 at 17:46, gSvrs said:

Thats may be the vag diesel  "scandal "

can't wait till garages to open then I can 

order my car  and get out of the oil slug

[vizer]

Just past 10000 km, average on my 1.5 dsg is 29 mpg, mostly 15km distance to work.

[Ootohere]

@vizer  Is that a US gallon or an Imperial gallon?

[vizer]

It is converted online from 8,1 l/100 km.

[Ootohere]

@vizer   So 29 US MPG. 

& not Imperial (British) MPG.

 

 

Edited 1 May, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[shyVRS245]

Our Karoq 1.5TSi manual SEL has done 24,400 miles now and last 4 commutes of 27 miles has shown the 50 litre tank will give over 550 mile range. Overall averaging 45mpg.

[Ootohere]

@shyVRS245   That is 'The range'.  550 miles if you used the 50 litres would be 50 mpg.

& That is man maths. 

50 litre tank and takes more than 50 litre. 

so do you fill with 45 litre or 45 ish litre to get to the overall average 45mpg?

[vizer]

Roottootemblowinootsoot

Thank you for explanation!

 

27 minutes ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

@vizer   So 29 US MPG. 

& not Imperial (British) MPG.

 

 

 

[shyVRS245]

6 minutes ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

@shyVRS245   That is 'The range'.  550 miles if you used the 50 litres would be 50 mpg.

& That is man maths. 

50 litre tank and takes more than 50 litre. 

so do you fill with 45 litre or 45 ish litre to get to the overall average 45mpg?

The 45 is the current maxidot figure but actual fuel bought so far this year over 1,725 miles 180.34 litres 39.67 gallons for actual 43.48mpg.

[shyVRS245]

14 hours ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

@shyVRS245   That is 'The range'.  550 miles if you used the 50 litres would be 50 mpg.

& That is man maths. 

50 litre tank and takes more than 50 litre. 

so do you fill with 45 litre or 45 ish litre to get to the overall average 45mpg?

Just for George.

[Boghopper]

I've had my 1.5TSi DSG since early December, it was a demonstrator with 450 miles on the clock that I bought after my BMW 225xe was written off when the car next to it in the supermarket car park went on fire.

Now up to about 4800 miles and so far have averaged 47.4mpg on a mixture of A-roads and single track with most journeys incorporating my 35 mile commute. That's been fairly consistent since around two weeks into ownership when I decided the DSG gearbox isn't particularly bright and now mainly use it in semi-auto, prior to that it was more like 44mpg. Changing from winter tyres at the end of March made no difference to consumption but I'm expecting a modest improvement as the weather warms up, in this area it's been dry and windy but not really gone over 10c yet.

[Rockinghorse]

Thanks for depressing me once more. More and more people are posting mpg's in high 40s and even high 50s but  I can only dream of those figures. When the current crisis is over  my Karoq will be going.

[OldKaroq]

9 hours ago, Rockinghorse said:

Thanks for depressing me once more. More and more people are posting mpg's in high 40s and even high 50s but  I can only dream of those figures. When the current crisis is over  my Karoq will be going.

 

I don't think high 40's and high 50's is a realistic expectation, for a petrol engined unareodynamic SUV. Mine has managed about 38mpg overall, which is fine. Fuel costs are negligible compared to a vehicles depreciation. Its worth it to me - my wife Fabia is a great car, but rowing the manual 6 speed gearbox is a pain when its possible to have the change done for you. 

 

Edit - sorry Rockinghorse, I assumed your car had the DSG! It doesn't does it? 🤐

Edited 18 May, 2020 by OldKaroq

[shyVRS245]

Well I've managed to keep the wife away from her beloved manual Karoq 1.5TSi for a month now and it's managed 452 miles so far with 100 miles left so approximately 50mpg. Long term is showing 47.1mpg on maxidot.

[croquemonsieur]

Interested in what you say Boghopper about driving the Karoq DSG in manual mode and getting significantly better consumption.  A little of that may be due to 'running in' I suppose.  When leaving things to the DSG alone, were you driving in Standard, Eco or Sport mode?  Any advice on using the gearbox in manual mode - I've not ventured into using this - sounds like the DSG isn't all that bright, as you say.

 

I do like the way my 1.0 Technology DSG Karoq engine/gearbox combination drives - the box is mostly very smooth except for the well known less-than-perfect starting from standstill.  Unlike my previous DSG Yet,i it wants to stay in as high a gear as much as possible, even to the point of almost sounding as if it's labouring on uphills (I think that's actually the 3cyl resonance mode), but in such circumstances I put the gear lever into sport, which actually makes driving a little more interesting.  I get 44mpg overall too, after 5,750miles from new, maybe I could also be doing better in manual mode.

[Ootohere]

10*oC is a lovely temperature for Turbo engines.   Warmer weather might well be nice, but cooling oil in hot weather uses energy / fuel.

Nice cool air going in.

No defrosting required, heated screens, heated mirrors etc, & if driving more than 10 miles the coolant and engine oil is getting up to temp and running efficiently and the DSG in what ever mode the driver chooses does its job.

Manual downshifts are nice, but the DSG is not that stupid as to know when to change up gears for efficient fuel economy.

 

Comparing a 1.0TSI DSG and a 1.5TSI ACT / DSG really is like comparing apples and pears. 

[Boghopper]

8 minutes ago, croquemonsieur said:

Interested in what you say Boghopper about driving the Karoq DSG in manual mode and getting significantly better consumption.  A little of that may be due to 'running in' I suppose.  When leaving things to the DSG alone, were you driving in Standard, Eco or Sport mode?  Any advice on using the gearbox in manual mode - I've not ventured into using this - sounds like the DSG isn't all that bright, as you say.

 

 

When I test drove the car it was in Inverness and along the A9 and A96, all seemed fine there, but on single track and twisty A-roads where I live I was surprised at how often and how far it changes down with only gentle throttle application at maybe 30 - 40mph. It could be doing this on a downhill or when I'm just feathering it along to the next passing place so in these sorts of circumstances I can see what's coming next but the car is following an algorithm and assuming I'm doing something like accelerating away from a roundabout.

Regarding Eco, I have two quite long descents which are both at the national speed limit 😉. In Eco the car will disengage the drive but keep the engine running which takes fuel, I prefer to hold it in 7th which means no fuel is injected to keep the engine turning but I might still need to touch the brakes to keep the speed down so using the engine braking isn't wasting energy in these circumstances. On short descents Eco does seem to be beneficial.

In general I find in Standard mode the DSG holds onto each gear for longer than I would like, and in Sport it's even worse. The selling point of this engine is that maximum torque is available from 1400 - 4000rpm, I don't make the engine pull a high gear at max throttle from low down and in fact even in semi-auto the box will shift down if you try that, but I rarely go over maybe 2800rpm and will feather it along at 1500rpm in a higher gear in some parts of my journey. Overall I guess I'm often a gear higher than the car would choose and make the next up change a second or two earlier, particularly when I know I won't be accelerating further.

Sport mode just seems to hold onto each gear too long, similarly in Standard mode the kickdown response is just awful! Has anyone else seen the box shift so low that it instantly red lines the engine?! Then there's a ponderous change up to a more appropriate gear and all the while the engine is gulping fuel but going nowhere. For overtaking in semi-auto I select a gear that gives about 3500rpm, foot down then as soon as I'm clear flick it up to 7th or the appropriate higher gear, the whole process feels smoother and is definitely more efficient.

Worth noting I'm in the far north of Scotland, driving conditions here are very different from urban areas, with virtually no traffic lights or roundabouts. However the DSG in auto mode is like cruise control, a reasonable driver making the decisions will always get better fuel consumption and/or performance because they can plan ahead and always be in the most appropriate gear.

 

 

[Ootohere]

@Boghopper

I drive the A9 and more so the A96 regularly.

You should maybe read up on 'Coasting Function'  and fuel used.  I think you might just have the wrong end of the stick.

The engine is still running, but 'Coasting' was not introduced to actually use the same or more fuel as when the gears are engaged and it does not.

 

I get better fuel economy going ever the A93 & A939,  and that is using 'Coasting' & 'Sport' in TDI's and TSI's with DSG's.

S does hold the revs longer, that is the point on great roads, and bends and climbs.

On those roads i change down manually and flip back across to D for upshifts, and sometimes i go to back to S and go between D & S.

 

There is so much choice, and you can try each way of driving on the same routes and over time find what actually gives the highest range rather than looking at the 'average'.

 

You have 6 gears in 'S' and 7 in 'D'.

 

Loads of threads on it in different sections of BRISKODA.

Different models have 'Coasting' available differently.

Where just available in 'ECO' i think is pretty useless.  It is not just about saving fuel,  but driving the same routes and spending less can be nice.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/470440-coasting-to-save-fuel

 

As it was with 1.5TSI's and 1.0TSI's and a DSG it is clear now that VW set them up to get the WLTP / RDE figures they wanted so hence for RDE2 they are being discontinued and it is going to be 1.0 & 1.5's with DSG having to be mild hybrids.

They will play the game as long as they can to have the C02 g/km low during tests.

 

 

 

Edited 19 May, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[croquemonsieur]

Thanks for those comments Boghopper and Offski, still absorbing much of the content.  My 1.0 DSG Technology is actually quite a lowly model with some irather nice additional features over the SE, but happily keeps the 17" wheels.  I doesn't actually have the StandardEco/Sport switcheable driving option, but interesting to read what you say on top of previous comments by others in various threads, though do wonder if it's worth having.  I suspect Boghopper you drive in a more spirited manner to me on ordinary roads - I'm much too lazy to try to go on the limit and maybe more content with what the car decides - I'm not what I'd call slow though, but do tend to go with the flow when there's significant amount of traffic.

 

I do agree that the kickdown response is ponderous - only tried once when overtaking a slower car in what was for me a tight spot.  An anxious moment, but then the car pulled away really fast - ridiculously so for a 1.0 with biggish body.  After that I tried and got comfortable with the pulling back into S with the gear selector lever (the D & S thing as Offski puts it) and then the car is then surprisingly and for me sufficitiently responsive for overtaking and quick getaways and also as I said before, useful for avoiding the slight but annoying engine boom that occurs 1500-2000rpm when working harder on uphills.

 

Maybe as Offski says, I'm comparing apples and pears, but my gearbox does seem to behave a bit differently to the 1.5, if anything wanting to change up too soon and it stays in top on downgrades - unlike my previous Yeti and all former conventional autos that would all change down in that latter circumstance, far too readily for my liking,   I will try again to get familiar with manual changes.  I fiddled with the steering wheel manual switches after that anxious overtaking incident noted in previous paragraph, but was unsure if or how I got back into standard auto mode (old monkeys, new tricks syndrome perhaps) - then tried the D & S thing, which is so ridiculously effortless and gives me the responsiveness I need on occasions and for me makes driving a bit more interesting & enjoyable.

[Ootohere]

The 1.0TSI 3 Cylinders are what they are, they have to get the car about which is no light weight and also achieve some economy and still get low emissions under the WLTP certification.

Not something the Yeti had to with a 1.2 TSI / DSG and hence that engines were discontinued as the 1.0 TSI DSG's are going to be.

 

It is not quite true that there is 'no replacement for displacement'.   

Ford can do 1.0 petrol 3 cylinders with 130/160 ps.

 Toyota have a 3 cylinder 1.6 petrol turbo for the GR Yaris with 257 bhp. 

[shyVRS245]

Had to put some fuel in the wife's Karoq today, she actually needed to use it for work. In the last 4 weeks I've kept the battery nicely topped up by putting 468 miles under its tyres which used 41 litres at a cost of £40.96. First time I've paid under £1 per litre since 2003, who would have predicted that when we invaded Iraq to save the World from WMD's. Just under 52mpg was the actual tank average.

[Ootohere]

Others were paying under £1 a litre in 2009 & 2015 for Unleaded and in 2016 diesel was under £1 a litre.

[croquemonsieur]

Root - maybe the 1.0 has to work fairly hard for its money, but it does well in combo with the DSG and does it quietly, smoothly & pretty economically most of the time.  Not quite the get-up-&-go of my old 2.0 Saab 9-5 auto but definitelymore responsive than my previous to that BMW E39 2.5 5 series auto for general driving, if not having its ultimate performance.  At least as roomy as both those cars and much more economical & actually quieter.  A bit more responsive than the 1.2 DSG Yeti too when using D & S.  Yes it has the slight drawbacks  common to all 3 cylinders, but the nicest one I've been behind, out of the BMW 1.5 in 2 minis, Ford 1.0 + other 1.0 VAG installations in Fabia & Citigo.

 

It's a shame the 1.0 DSG is already discontinued, but a 1.0 Hybrid sounds attractive.  Yes the Ford 1.0 has very impressive power, but in my sister in law's last generation Focus, it's not a particularly refined nor economical engine - motoring correspondents like it cause it's gutsy, sporty and a bit noisy maybe - doesn't the 160hp version rely on battery hybrid assistance to get there in the Puma at least, or are you talking about something else.