Hi All, 

Back again with another problemo, was at work this evening, got into my car that I had driven just 2 mins ago, it cranked about 3 turns then just decided it didn't want to anymore. Tried to start again and no crank at all, no sounds

Popped my voltmeter on the battery, 12.5v, so ruled that out as an issue. 

When I turn the key to start, the headlights go out as usual and the fuel pump runs, so I don't think its a key / ignition type issue?

When rolled down the hill and bump started it runs fine, so I don't think its to do with the engine itself. 

When looking for broken fuses at the bus bar, there appeared to be none broken in a violent way.

On the solenoid is a black wire (about 10mm thick or so?) that doesn't look broken, but there was a connector point on next to it (towards back of car) that had no connector on it at all. I assume there should be one here, but its a bit of a mystery as to what should be going there. 

Having a look around I found one lonely red thin wire that was hanging loose that is on the main loom that runs around the battery, I can only assume that its supposed to live where the plug should be? 

Basically I have no idea and need a hand, looking around the internet there seems to be loads of threads, but none that seem to be quite what I have. 

 

Cheers for any help

Its a 1.2l htp 2003 mk1 fabia 

Put up a few pictures if you can

 

But sounds abit like the starter or connections to it

This is the solenoid wire, the one that usually snaps, arrow pointing to the point that it usually snaps. Sounds like yours may have done this? The plastic sleeve may have subsequently dropped off.

 

23 hours ago, whfabia said:

Hi All, 

Back again with another problemo, was at work this evening, got into my car that I had driven just 2 mins ago, it cranked about 3 turns then just decided it didn't want to anymore. Tried to start again and no crank at all, no sounds

Popped my voltmeter on the battery, 12.5v, so ruled that out as an issue. 

 

Battery 12.5 , off load. Meter most possibly DVM with impedance of  a lot of hundreds of ohms per volt, so it takes a few milamps draw. Best put it across battery when the starter is working. That way any HR between cells shows up as a low cranking voltage.

But ( and I agree that there is a problem with the wire to operate the solenoid), But another problem ,oft missed is a problem on the high current side of the solenoid. The contacts.

And the clutch.

Lets look at the sequence.

Key turned-

solenoid operates, pulling starter into flywheel, and at same time energising high current contacts to operate starter motor. ( if solenoid contacts are damaged, then starter does not get the energy to turn at max efficiency. )

Just a thought.

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks for your suggestions;

So after an hour and 20 mins of swearing and wrestling of the tiny wire and a massive crimpers I finally got it reconnected onto a new plug, conveniently I didn't have the right socket size for the battery holding box so I had to do it with it still in place. TLDR its fixed

Borrowed a meter for testing CCA from a friend and it was 3 below what it said on the battery

Took the positive off the solenoid and gave it a clean with some sand paper whist I was down there, when I have a bit more time I am going to extend the wire because by the looks of it its not the first time its come off, but all seems to be working for now but I need to make it more of a permeant installation to make it last as I can see it being tugged off if the engine moves to much, but we will have to see...

At least I can get to work again :)

Well done.

The main negative/ground/earth connection is also a good one to clean up if/when you revisit the area.

1 minute ago, Wino said:

Well done.

The main negative/ground/earth connection is also a good one to clean up if/when you revisit the area.

Is that the one just to the right of the starter (nearside), I took that off as I had a quad spanner in my rucksack that fitted so I gave it a clean as well. 

The plastic sleeve on the cable was also MIA, do I need to put something else over it to protect or nah? the cable seemed sturdy so I assume its specd for heat? 

From memory, the end that connects to the starter goes on the stud that is part of the top mounting bolt of the starter motor, the other end is on the chassis leg, just above the date in my picture.

 

The plastic sleeve over the positive lead connection is to prevent accidents as that cable is totally unfused, so a careless spanner on a car without the battery disconnected will cause a major spark, think arc-welding.

Edited 4 February, 20206 yr by Wino

20 minutes ago, Wino said:

The plastic sleeve over the positive lead connection

Oh I put that back on I meant the black plastic tube that goes over the signal wire. 

I used the stud to make sure that the starter wasn't bad by shorting them together and it spun 

Ah yes, sorry, I don't think that tube serves much purpose at all.

2 minutes ago, Wino said:

Ah yes, sorry, I don't think that tube serves much purpose at all.

Great, I was only going to steal some from the battery drain thing if it was. 

Now I'll wait to find out what that cars plotting to prevent me driving it, usually its something small like the handbrake getting stuck on, This is the first time its left me stranded 

If there's someone else about (the missus in my case, in a supermarket carpark), one of you (me)  can hold the broken off wire end against where it's supposed to be while the other (her) turns the key, and you can get it going.  Strict instructions not to stall it on the way home, even though I was following in my car behind!

On 04/02/2020 at 20:35, Wino said:

Well done.

The main negative/ground/earth connection is also a good one to clean up if/when you revisit the area.

I've always worked on a voltage reading across the solenoid to starter of 0.5 volts with the engine cranking. Any more and it's time to see if you can get the solenoid out and clean/ reverse the contacts/ contact plate. And again, another check might be from a good earth on the engine to battery negative, again with engine cranking . I've no figures, but I'd say 0.5V or less might be a good aim.

The aim of engine cranking is that in that condition the starter draws max current from the battery and ( by OHMS LAW) any drops are seen as at max.