I think I'd rather have - https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/usa/jeep/gladiator

 

 

 

 

On 17/02/2020 at 20:48, silver1011 said:

£45,240 for a Land Rover Defender 90 S, from the company that flogs us the woefully unreliable Discovery Sport and regularly languishes down at the bottom of the reliability tables?

 

Na, you're alright thanks...

 

 

You'd expect reliability from Toyota but I had 3 Prados break down in 2 weeks in Kuwait!

In fairness that SWB Land Cruiser is no looker either.

There aren't often many people around to admire the exterior...

 

 

But then the benchmark at the time wasn't high...

 

I dunno the defender is so far off the modern norm that I think it looks good.

 

The Toyota does look pretty bland. They used to be interesting for their hugeness, but I think every other car has grown so much now that the LC just looks biggish now.

Sorry but I still can't wrap my head around just how expensive they are.

 

My personal experience of them is as a workhorse on site and no way in hell would we be paying the amount they are asking for them for that sort of role.  I know they've gone up-market but I think that move has taken them away from their core market...

@skomaz 

How much were they paying where you worked to buy a 110 Station Wagon,

or just 90 Pickup or Van or a 110 Pickup or Van?

 

 

My experience of Land Rovers is the the Utility Companies have paid more than that for many years to the Special Division and converters for their vehicles, 

and many companies spend very large amounts hiring them and leasing them, and that includes Police Forces when they are caught out in winter.

 

People often have no idea what a basic, 90,110, 130 or 150 actually cost, and what they were once you added some spec in the way of options.

Cost without VAT and with VAT added.

https://engine710.com/sales/

 

https://engine710.com

 

 

 

 

Edited 10 June, 20205 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

Can't remember what we were paying off-hand but it wasn't anywhere near the price of the new one as ours were basic steel 90 /110 hardtop vans as that was all that was needed.  No fancy gear in them on them or attached to them.  If they got stuck rolled then we got a back-actor to get them out.

 

From memory people were already moving away from the Defender on site as basic transport to something cheaper - like L200s (£21k) or D-Max (£21 with a truckman top £17k without).

Many like farmers, game keepers, builders etc moved away from Defenders to Pickups that could tow what they needed to tow and give some comfort as dual use vehicles. 

To carry 4 people or more in a Defender needed more money  spent to get them.  

As to rolling a Standard Defender, they did not survive that very well in most cases and repairing was costly.

 

If people want or need a Defender they can just go buy one, then try keeping it out of the hands of toe rags that want to steal it.

http://strathearnengineering.com/sales.html

 

Edited 11 June, 20205 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

I suppose one of my queries with the new defender is how they can be modified to do the sort of roles the old one did - ie how do you fit a hiab / cherry picker to a monocoque chassis as there are no ladder chassis rails???  and how do you fit stabiliser legs?

 

I'm not a vehicle engineer but the stuff I've seen available for the new Defender thus far are generally 'lifestyle' type additions, or 'trekking' additions as opposed to the stuff needed to do a job.

19 minutes ago, skomaz said:

I suppose one of my queries with the new defender is how they can be modified to do the sort of roles the old one did - ie how do you fit a hiab / cherry picker to a monocoque chassis as there are no ladder chassis rails???  and how do you fit stabiliser legs?

 

I'm not a vehicle engineer but the stuff I've seen available for the new Defender thus far are generally 'lifestyle' type additions, or 'trekking' additions as opposed to the stuff needed to do a job.

 

Maybe they've just given up that market to pickups.

Land Rover were supposed to be doing a Basic New Defender 2 / 3 Seater Van  and maybe Pickups.

Well they are not doing them now.

As it is they might well have been limited in the UK to the Speed Limits that apply to the weight of Light Commercial as my SWB Shogun Commercial is.

 

The Ladder Chassis Grenadier with BMW engines being built by INEOS might well be what is bought as a Light Commercial Workhorse.

They are being Road / Offroad tested now.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 11 June, 20205 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

I  had a 1990 Defender, it looked great but wrecked my back and at 6`5" jammed me in like a sardine.

Most new LR`s now seem to suffer from lots of glitches, so the new one will never be for me.

 

5 hours ago, davedetecting said:

I  had a 1990 Defender, it looked great but wrecked my back and at 6`5" jammed me in like a sardine.

Most new LR`s now seem to suffer from lots of glitches, so the new one will never be for me.

 

 

Yeah - leg and knee room was never great and the wheel always felt jammed up against your chest but they were good fun (we used to fight over the keys to the 90 because it was great for doing drifts in the loose stuff on site   😉

Chatting to a neighbour who has been furloughed for the last 3 months and finally went back to work for Sturgess Land Rover and he currently has a 20 plate New Defender parked outside his house. It's very imposing.

I did the configurator for a new Defender. Mine came in at over £60k.

 

TBH if I thought the depreciation wouldn't be too bad I'd be tempted, it's grown on my quite a lot. 

 

Oh and the £2k road tax is pretty offputting too.

Edited 17 June, 20205 yr by Aspman

20 minutes ago, Aspman said:

I did the configurator for a new Defender. Mine came in at over £60k.

 

TBH if I thought the depreciation wouldn't be too bad I'd be tempted, it's grown on my quite a lot. 

 

Oh and the £2k road tax is pretty offputting too.

£60k for a Defender 🤯, I can`t see many farmers spending that to get a 4x4.

I think I would wait for a while as I am sure there will be lots of electrical gremlins ready to spoil your purchase.

I know someone who bought a new Disco Sport and the first car was replaced as it was so unreliable and the replacement has allowed him to try out all the dealers loan cars - it has had so many problems.

 

@davedetecting 

You maybe need to get about more around the countryside and see farmers with New Range Rovers and other rather expensive vehicles.

Or go visit a Land Rover dealership and see the New Defenders prepared for hand over to the new owners.

They might not all tow a Cattle Trailer or horse box with them for work but someone on the farm or in the family will be driving them.

Dominic Cummings is a Slipper Farmer, maybe his father is a farming farmer and there are many the same around the country who are actively getting their income from being Wind Farmers.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/17830289.dominic-cummings-hypocritical-eu-farm-subsidies-says-mp

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-37503895

 

Edited 17 June, 20205 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

6 minutes ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

@davedetecting 

You maybe need to get about more around the countryside and see farmers with New Range Rovers and other rather expensive vehicles.

Or go visit a Land Rover dealership and see the New Defenders prepared for hand over to the new owners.

They might not all tow a Cattle Trailer or horse box with them for work but someone on the farm or in the family will be driving them.

Dominic Cummings is a Slipper Farmer, maybe his father is a farming farmer and there are many the same around the country who are actively getting their income from being Wind Farmers.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-37503895

 

Not many farmers over here (NI) buying RR or new Defenders. I am out on farm land every weekend and all I see are L200`s and Rangers.

I hope the new Defender proves more reliable than the Discos.

@davedetecting

They are not stupid, they are not advertising the money they have. 

Like some in Scotland, they know the price of everything and the value, and do not make it easy for the HMRC.

?

Are there no Farmers around where you go that are also Owners of Energy Companies as well as actually farming and owning or leasing Teslas, or ones paid not to farm for the sake of conservation?

There were plenty that did well out of the Energy Grant Scheme in NI. 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38301428

 

VAT makes a big difference to Business users, and for some that have plenty money coming in the accountant advises when to spend and be seen spending, and get receipts, and when to buy and when to borrow or lease.

 

There will be those that buy the Workhorse that can take passengers and is no more expensive than a Lifestyle Double Cab Pickup or a Comfortable Commercial 4x4 VAN with 2 seats cost.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 17 June, 20205 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

I know about vat and accountants as we have our own business.

I don`t ask questions about their personal wealth and don`t care what they have stashed away.

I am lucky to be allowed on their land to detect.

1 hour ago, davedetecting said:

Not many farmers over here (NI) buying RR or new Defenders. I am out on farm land every weekend and all I see are L200`s and Rangers.

I hope the new Defender proves more reliable than the Discos.

In our street today a tough looking Ranger and new Defender. I would buy the Ranger if I retire to Kenya.

The New Pickup's & vans are going to be from the Coupling of Ford & VW. 

http://parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/news/2019/ford-vw-van-pickup-alliance-confirmed

 

 

33 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

In our street today a tough looking Ranger and new Defender. I would buy the Ranger if I retire to Kenya.

I Like pickups and had a Hilux and a Ranger.

The Ranger bounced about like a pogo stick and needed a lot of weight in the back to settle it, the Hilux was much more comfortable and wasn`t bouncy.

I would love a drive in the new Defender but wouldn`t be buying one due to all the electrical problems LR`s seem to suffer from.

I would rather get one of these;