Guys,

 

I have a 2019 Skoda Kodiaq L&K 190 TDI DSG with a dealer retro fitted factory electrically swinging tow bar booked to be fitted 5th June. Before lockdown we started looking at twin axle caravans, now i'm a little worried that its too heavy for the Kodiaq. The dealer didnt check anything, just said, oh yes that will be fine, its a big 4x4.

 

The van is a twin axle with ATC but does come in at approx 1725 kg. From my calculation the Kodiaq weighs in at approx 1950kg with driver. This would give a ratio of 88% slightly above the 85% recommended, however the car will always be heavier with other people and luggage and there is a chance that the van could be lighter as the empty weight is approx 1550kg.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Max permissible towing weight for 190 TDI is 2500 kg with brakes.

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Max permissible towing weight for 190 TDI is 2500 kg with brakes.

 

No it isn't, see specs here  https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/specs/detail/?v=M159822   Remember also that this is the UK here, so we may have different towing laws to you.

 

With regard to the OPs question; The figure you should use is the kerb weight of the car which is 1720 kgs. The 85% recommendation of that is 1462 kgs.

You should not add the drivers weight or any other weights of items carried to the kerb weight of the car to boost the weight you think you can tow. That's just playing with figures and can be dangerous in practice when you're actually towing. 

Does, or will the caravan have a motor mover as that will add a fair weight to the MTPLM.

The 2000kgs maximum towing weight you'll see on HJs website is the figure that the car is physically capable of towing. It's not a weight they recommend that you should tow all the time. If I remember correctly (I stand to be corrected), it means that the car is capable of pulling away from a standing start on a 1 in 4 gradient (or similar)

Do not listen to the blasé advice the dealer has given you, speak to the people who know about these things and are trying to keep you and other road users safe.

e.g. https://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/helpandadvice/technicalhelp/datasheets/matching-car-caravan/

 

In my time of towing my own caravan, I saw many unmatched units on the road, and frankly, they can be bloody dangerous !!

I second what olderman1 said.

 

28 minutes ago, olderman1 said:

Remember also that this is the UK here, so we may have different towing laws to you.

 

Thanks, good to know.

 

I tow a lot. Usually about 1700 kg total weight with trailer, sometimes up to 2000 kg.

Was not a problem for my Superb II 170 TDI, also isn`t a problem for Kodi.

 

Remember that a caravan has its weight, but also a significant length and surface area.  Compared with a small heavy trailer (like a generator or something), a caravan has much more “leverage” on the back of the car, and much more reaction to sudden changes in wind or the pressure waves from lorries.

 

 

And another thing; I'm assuming that you have a 7 seater which comes with an 80kg noseweight capacity. Keeping within that limit is a legal requirement and is not a figure you can massage like towing limits. 

I imagine that a twin axle van would struggle to comply with that limit, although not carrying gas bottles in the nose storage compartment (if that's where they are) might help, but then you still have to carry the bottles somewhere.

My Kodiaq is a 5 seater with a 100kg noseweight limit and my caravan had an MTPLM 0f around 1475kgs and I had to be careful what I carried in the nose to comply with that 100kg limit.

If you want to stay legal and safe, getting your weights correct and finding out what you can carry, and where, can be quite a concise juggling act.

If like  many caravanners on the road, you are blasé about what and how you tow, remember that in the case of an accident, your rig could be checked for weights and safe storage and if you get it wrong, your insurance could be invalidated.

Some good points, but some errors in this thread. Looking at the current spec on Skodas website, the 2000kg towing limit is right. That is a legal value, you can't legally tow any more than that in the UK. In terms of what a caravan weighs and what you can tow, the MTPLM, which stand for the Maximum Technically Permitted Laden Mass and is what you have to make sure does not exceed the approved towing limit of your car. The caravan maker defines the MTPLM and there will be an approval label on the 'van that says what it is. If you were stopped and inspected, it's this value that would be used by those checking you out to decide whether you are legal or not.

 

Adding a motor mover, or anything else does not affect the MTPLM. It's a fixed figure defined by the caravan manufacturer. What adding a motor mover, along with anything else does, is mean that that you have less 'user payload' and it's amazingly easy to not realise how little of your own stuff like cutlery, your awning, clothes and so on you might be able to carry in the 'van without exceeding the MTPLM. This could see you having a problem with having an overloaded 'van when stopped, no matter the towing limit on the car.

 

But then, I say MTPLM is a fixed figure, but that's an oversimplification. Often, the caravan manufacturer will get a 'van approved with a particular MTPLM knowing that actually, technically, it's capable of having a higher user payload. But if they had it approved at that higher MTPLM, then many fewer cars would legally be able to tow it (because the MTPLM must never exceed the towing limit of the car). So for those people who have cars that can tow a van with a higher towing limit, they allow them to buy a new approval with a higher MTPLM that means they can put more stuff in the 'van without risking getting in trouble for having a 'van that is technically overloaded.

 

Noseweight limits are really important too as said. You can adjust the noseweight by how you load the 'van, but when the payload is so small on many, there's not a lot of wiggle room. What's really important is not to be tempted to put heavy stuff at the back of the 'van to balance it. This can act like a pendulum. We also make a point of draining the water system and toilet header tank. All our heavy stuff is in the car. 

 

We also have to think about things other than the legalities. Just because something is legal doesn't neccesarily mean it's sensible or safe. That's where the 85% 'rule' comes from. It's guidance based on averages, and I guess that's what you are asking in a way. It's based on 85% of the kerbweight, but that's yet another contentious issue. For many years this included the driver, and for many manufacturers it still does, but at some point Skoda changed to not include the driver. So to say you shouldn't include the driver is contentious, bearing in mind the 85% guidance is based on kerbweight including the driver. It's also guidance based on experience amongst other things in that an experienced tower could go higher. Again, that said, there are plenty of experienced people who are actually clueless and have no idea about things like driving conditions.

 

So, coming to the question. I tow quite a large, but single axle Bailey Unicorn Vigo MTPLM 1500kg. No problem towing it but I have to admit I felt the previous Superb 4x4 170 was actually a little more stable with the same 'van. I reckon it's to do with the height / suspension of the Kodi. Not a problem at all and would be quite happy to have moved up to one of the twin axle models with MTPLM of 1700kg.

What about additional stability of a twin axle over a heavy single? 

 

With regards to the 85% 'suggestion' I tow a 1420kg van with my Octavia estate, which according to the kerb weight of 1462kg works out at 96%. In reality its a stable match because I check the nose weight each time, load the caravan correctly, put heavier items in the car and drive like... I'm towing a caravan. 

 

I've seen a video of a LWB Nissan Patrol towing only a single axle van, lose control and overturn because it was traveling too fast. 

I have a 12 meter long single axle trailer. Done 140 km/h when overtaking, no stability issues, empty or loaded.

If you have a lot of maneuvering, two axles is downside.

15 minutes ago, linni said:

I have a 12 meter long single axle trailer. Done 140 km/h when overtaking, no stability issues, empty or loaded.

If you have a lot of maneuvering, two axles is downside.

 

In the UK, that would be illegal!  Maximum length of trailer for a towcar up to 3,500 kg is 7 m (plus the A-frame), and maximum towing speed is 60 mph (96 kph).

 

Incidentally, is the online advice available from the UK's main motoring organisations wrong?  The AA, and other websites say of the speed limits (irrespective of towing) for Estonia:  

• Outside built-up areas 55 mph (90 km/h) but up to 68 mph (110 km/h) on some roads

  during the summer.

Edited 25 May, 20206 yr by DaveMiller

Yes, we have different laws hre, but they vary from country to country.

Which is common, is length. 12 meters for trailer only and 18,75 meters for car and trailer.

Which is not common, is max speed. For example Estonia and Czech - 110 km/h. Most of mainland countries 90 km/h. Poland 70 km/h.

On 24/05/2020 at 16:59, olderman1 said:

And another thing; I'm assuming that you have a 7 seater which comes with an 80kg noseweight capacity.

 

That depends on the model year, some 7-seaters were increased to 100kg a year or so ago.

 

On 24/05/2020 at 19:15, lowedb said:

For many years this included the driver, and for many manufacturers it still does, but at some point Skoda changed to not include the driver.

 

Skoda provide two kerbweights, with and without the driver...

 

 

My Kodiaq has a kerbweight (with driver) of 1,793kg.

 

I tow a single axle Bailey Pursuit with a MTPLM of 1,374kg, this puts me at 77%

 

With its relatively small 1.4 TSI engine, manual gearbox and 250Nm of torque it tows really well...

 

Where does 1793kg come from? The 1.5 manual on your attachment has a max of 1689kg. 

 

My wife's Beetle has the same 1.4 TSI engine and it is nippy enough. I find it astonishing you're using it to move all that lot! 

In the early 90's, I borrowed this caravan for a week and took my two kids to the Lake District.  

The BX sailed up Lakeland passes with this on the back on only 90 bhp and 133 lbs-ft.  

I did get some incredulous looks in caravan sites, though.  😀

 

Edited 26 May, 20206 yr by Schtum

Many years ago and pre-marriage I did a bit of cycle touring around the UK and the continent with tent, sleeping bag, cooking equipment, clothing, cycle spares, food and water.

I'm guessing total weight (with driver) was around a 100kg  .

 

If you are pushing any of the towing limits, whether tow ball weight, caravan weight or total rig weight, then you might well be ok on the flat or at lower speeds but consideration should be given of the stresses of  more demanding terrain or speeds.

Personally I like a lot more safety margin than has been put forward by some. Consider the effects of having to brake suddenly downhill in Cumbria?

 

 

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Adding a motor mover, or anything else does not affect the MTPLM

 

 I didn't explain that bit very well did I.

What I meant was; adding a motor mover won't increase the MTPLM figure as you stated, but its weight is included in the amount you can load into the van, so if the mover weighs 30kgs, you'll have to leave 30kgs of beer at home 😉

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That depends on the model year, some 7-seaters were increased to 100kg a year or so ago.

 

That's interesting, I wasn't aware of that. How do you reckon they managed to achieve that after 3 years of telling us the max is 80kgs ?

 

Also, purely out of interest, where do you get your vehicle kerb weight from ?

I'm not too sure to be honest.

 

All models (at least those that are homologated) are now rated at 100kg, including the vRS which at launch was only 70kg.

 

Given that the 80kg to 100kg differences were directly related to whether the car was a 5 or 7 seater might suggest that the towbar design / strength hasn't changed, perhaps Skoda have simply decided that the chassis / suspension can support the extra weight? All guessing though I'm afraid.

 

The minimum kerb weight (with driver) for my Kodiaq (1,658kg - 1,793kg) was taken from Skoda's Pricing & Specifications brochure (which annoyingly they stopped producing in 2020) dated from when my Kodiaq was delivered (2nd quarter of 2018)...

 

On 26/05/2020 at 00:20, Swirly182 said:

Where does 1793kg come from? The 1.5 manual on your attachment has a max of 1689kg. 

 

My wife's Beetle has the same 1.4 TSI engine and it is nippy enough. I find it astonishing you're using it to move all that lot! 

 

My earlier attachment was to illustrate that Skoda provide kerb weights both including and excluding the weight of the driver, it was for the SE L and was from a relatively new brochure so not related to my car, apologies if this caused confusion.

 

My Kodiaq is a 1.4 TSI Scout, the specs (including the kerb weights) highlighted above.

 

The 1.4 TSI has 150PS, the same as the most common 2.0 TDI diesel engine fitted to the Kodiaq, albeit it has only 250Nm compared to 320Nm of torque, which arguably is more important (or at least as equally) as horsepower for when towing. Whilst steep motorway inclines do require some forward planning and a gear down change I am a steady driver, especially with a caravan on the back, and so the 1.4 TSI is more than ample to pull the caravan around at speeds under 60mph, but even more so at the more common speeds of around 40mph to 50mph.

 

Edited 27 May, 20206 yr by silver1011

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All models (at least those that are homologated) are now rated at 100kg, including the vRS which at launch was only 70kg.

 

 

Anyone who was looking to buy a tow car and discarded the Kodiaq on the grounds of its 80kg noseweight limit now have grounds to feel pretty miffed 😞

This article is quite informative and might well give sound guidance to the OP and anyone else who is new to towing.

https://blueskyrecreation.wordpress.com/2017/06/27/85-of-kerb-weight-law-guide-or-myth/

If anyone is just happening to now be looking at 1.4TSI Beetles, 

older ones came with 158 bhp (twinchargers) and newer 1.4TSI (turbos)

Yes I avoided the early 158s. However no one is looking at Beetles. My fault I think - I only mentioned ours that has the same engine as the Kodiaq towing nearly 1400kg! Makes me feel a bit over-powered pulling a 1420kg van with the 245 😄

Edited 27 May, 20206 yr by Swirly182

I'm tired of Skoda seeming randomly changing towing spec. My Kodiaq RS was rated for 2300kg @ 12% and 2500kg @ 8% then 2500kg for both, along with the aforementioned tongue weight changes. From what I've heard, nothing has changed with the car with those tow rating changes.

 

At the moment I have no idea what my car is supposed to be.