7 minutes ago, Othen said:

Really? That would solve the mystery. Good information.

Alan

Yes 100%

29 minutes ago, rover220 said:

Yes 100%

Excellent. lichfielddriver should be very pleased at that. I'm guessing the reason is to lower the car and so improve aerodynamic performance (and so fuel economy) rather than to alter the car's handling.

 

Alan

Except its so low I have go the long way round to avoid speed humps, 67 miles twice a day instead of 2 x 64....

 

30 miles per weed x 39 school weeks..... 1170 miles per school year

Edited 15 September, 20205 yr by lichfielddriver

Rear springs are known to be soft and don't last much more than 60k on an estate. 

2 hours ago, lichfielddriver said:

Except its so low I have go the long way round to avoid speed humps, 67 miles twice a day instead of 2 x 64....

 

30 miles per weed x 39 school weeks..... 1170 miles per school year

Ah, I see. So were you trying to raise your motor car by fitting longer springs than came from the factory? I'm sure that would be possible (of course it is, lots of Superbs are built that way), but wouldn't you need to raise the front as well to suit? I don't know the answer to this one, but I suspect someone far more knowledgeable than I will.

Alan

3 hours ago, rover220 said:

Rear springs are known to be soft and don't last much more than 60k on an estate. 

... But surely the spring rate won't reduce with use, will it? I would tend to think the more likely scenario would be that the metal would work harden and be more prone to breaking - I don't know whether that is the case, and I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

 

I ask because my 2013 Elegance estate has done 67,000 miles with no noticeable diminution of the springs; I took them off to change the rear dampers last year and all was fine, so I refitted the same springs and have had no problems since. Are there any symptoms I should be looking for to indicate they are becoming worn?

 

Alan

Edited 15 September, 20205 yr by Othen
Correction.

26 minutes ago, Othen said:

Ah, I see. So were you trying to raise your motor car by fitting longer springs than came from the factory? I'm sure that would be possible (of course it is, lots of Superbs are built that way), but wouldn't you need to raise the front as well to suit? I don't know the answer to this one, but I suspect someone far more knowledgeable than I will.

Alan

Yes, yes you would but people don't want to hear that when it means buying springs and dampers for all 4 corners as well as a full alignment when it's done. When it comes to suspension you can't just mix and match and hope it'll work.

20 minutes ago, Othen said:

... But surely the spring rate won't reduce with use, will it? I would tend to think the more likely scenario would be that the metal would work harden and be more prone to breaking - I don't know whether that is the case, and I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

 

I ask because my 2013 Elegance estate has done 67,000 miles with no noticeable diminution of the springs; I took them off to change the rear dampers last year and all was fine, so I refitted the same springs and have had no problems since. Are there any symptoms I should be looking for to indicate they are becoming worn?

 

Alan

The metal fatigues over time, reducing the stiffness of the spring. Damper wear also reduces ride height as the seals on the gas cartridge wear out and let the gas escape. I've posted the ride height table several times across these threads if you have a poke around. If you're more than 10 mm off it's time for new parts.

Edited 15 September, 20205 yr by chimaera

34 minutes ago, chimaera said:

I've posted the ride height table several times across these threads if you have a poke around. If you're more than 10 mm off it's time for new parts.

... many thanks, I'll have a look for the table and check my car against it.

Alan

 

Addendum: I assume this is the table:

 

I think the first column would apply to my motor car (2013 Superb Elegance estate diesel), so the ride height should be 394.1 +/- 10 mm. I am guessing this is from the centre of the wheel hub to the top of the wheel arch when the car is unladen?

 

I have just measured my car and get 392mm both sides, which if I have measured the correct dimension seems fine. I used an ordinary steel tape, which I reckon I could read to +/- 2mm (I'm a surveyor by profession, so that is realistic). Is that measurement of the correct dimension, and is it precise enough (I suppose I could set up a laser level on a tripod if there was a requirement)?

Edited 15 September, 20205 yr by Othen
Correction.

PS (to the addendum): the original springs fitted are (after the table I found attached to the above):

 

PR Code: 0YE

Weight: 5

Colours: WOOOBr    (this is how I identified them)

Part #: 1K0 511 115 DE

Need these.... 

On 15/09/2020 at 13:07, Othen said:

Ah, I see. So were you trying to raise your motor car by fitting longer springs than came from the factory? I'm sure that would be possible (of course it is, lots of Superbs are built that way), but wouldn't you need to raise the front as well to suit? I don't know the answer to this one, but I suspect someone far more knowledgeable than I will.

Alan

 

The reality seems to be the springs fitted to the behemoth Superb are also fitted in Octavias and VW Golfs so not only is the Greenline lower as new, the springs are carrying a lot of weight and consequently the go soft

6 hours ago, lichfielddriver said:

 

The reality seems to be the springs fitted to the behemoth Superb are also fitted in Octavias and VW Golfs so not only is the Greenline lower as new, the springs are carrying a lot of weight and consequently the go soft

Good morn,

 

Understood - parts bin engineering is not unusual. I'm guessing the Greenline has the lower springs from the sports chassis to lower the frontal area a tad and so improve fuel consumption a bit - the downside is that it will cope with speed bumps and so on less well.

 

Chimaera makes a good point above that the front springs would have to be changed at the same time in order to correct the geometry of you decided to raise your car to standard height (and so cope with those pesky speed bumps better) - I agree with him. There is a McPherson strut arrangement at the front, so it may well be a case of changing more than just the springs to alter the ride height (I don't know, that was just conjecture on my part). I wonder whether you would think it worth the expense to change all 4 corners to get a 20mm increase in ride height for your motor car?

 

I can appreciate that the springs fitted to the Superb are closer to their design limits than when fitted to the Golf, and so may become less stiff with use - it might be worth measuring the ride height (see Chimaera's helpful table above) to see whether your rear springs have been affected. I checked those on my motor car and have found them to be well within the tolerance given, and so have decided to leave them well alone for the time being.

 

Getting back to your conundrum: I don't think it would be wise to fit standard chassis length springs to the back of your motor car without addressing the front at the same time - and that might be quite expensive (although far from impossible). I'd say (in my humble opinion) the best thing to do would be to replace the rear springs with new sports chassis items because that would be cheap (£50 for perfectly good pattern parts) and easy (DIY in 20 minutes/side with no special tools) - then see if that improves matters over the school run speed bumps.

 

I don't know whether that has been helpful or not (it was just an opinion, others more knowledgeable than I am may disagree); I have learned some things from this thread (such as the colour coding for springs and the correct ride height for my Skoda).

 

Good fortune,

 

Alan 

A lot of people also don't understand the role played by dampers (shocks) in controlling ride height. On higher mileage cars I would suggest that replacing dampers is a better first step than replacing springs when a car has sagged.

 

When I replaced the springs on my car last year, it only added back few mm to the ride height. Replacing the dampers added back around 10 mm though it was still low at that. Towbar and spare wheel are a bit much for weight range 6.

 

On the parts sharing topic, the part might be shared but it's likely to be doing a different job. A spring used for sports suspension in a Golf can become the comfort option in the bigger heavier Superb. As a design engineer I would say that these things are rarely as simple as they might look from reading through a parts catalogue.

14 minutes ago, chimaera said:

A lot of people also don't understand the role played by dampers (shocks) in controlling ride height. On higher mileage cars I would suggest that replacing dampers is a better first step than replacing springs when a car has sagged.

 

When I replaced the springs on my car last year, it only added back few mm to the ride height. Replacing the dampers added back around 10 mm though it was still low at that. Towbar and spare wheel are a bit much for weight range 6.

 

On the parts sharing topic, the part might be shared but it's likely to be doing a different job. A spring used for sports suspension in a Golf can become the comfort option in the bigger heavier Superb. As a design engineer I would say that these things are rarely as simple as they might look from reading through a parts catalogue.

 

Cant see how a shock absorber/damper changes ride height TBH, its the spring that dictates where the body sits above the axle surely?

 

Put a spring 3" shorter in and the car goes down 3" id guess.....the S/A will just ride from a different start point

 

On another note, folk have said taller springs would affect all the geometry, how does that work with airride suspension where the driver can select different settings?

 

 

2 minutes ago, lichfielddriver said:

 

Cant see how a shock absorber/damper changes ride height TBH, its the spring that dictates where the body sits above the axle surely?

 

Put a spring 3" shorter in and the car goes down 3" id guess.....the S/A will just ride from a different start point

 

On another note, folk have said taller springs would affect all the geometry, how does that work with airride suspension where the driver can select different settings?

 

 

There's a compressed gas capsule in the damper which behaves as a spring, alongside it's role in damping spring movement. Like I said, this stuff is more complicated than people think.

 

Air suspension systems that allow ride height adjustment work on all 4 corners to ensure that the vehicle rides at the correct height. Systems that correct the rear only will generally be set up to bring the car back to the correct ride height for that axle, which will be matched to the front.

The thing is, you cannot change the road-axle measurement (except by off road type lift kits or chassis mods), only the axle to floor pan measurement (via the coil or air bag)

 

Ill probably risk fitting replacement non-OE rear GL springs, £60 if I fit them, the car touches speed bumps front N/S and rear O/S, if it works for the rears ill get upgrdaed shocks and new front springs too

 

Pity Monroe doesnt still sell "load leveller" shocks (with its extra spring)

Edited 20 September, 20205 yr by lichfielddriver

47 minutes ago, lichfielddriver said:

The thing is, you cannot change the road-axle measurement (except by off road type lift kits or chassis mods), only the axle to floor pan measurement (via the coil or air bag)

 

Ill probably risk fitting replacement non-OE rear GL springs, £60 if I fit them, the car touches speed bumps front N/S and rear O/S, if it works for the rears ill get upgrdaed shocks and new front springs too

 

Pity Monroe doesnt still sell "load leveller" shocks (with its extra spring)

Road to axle measurement is meaningless in a car with independent suspension: there is no axle in the sense you're thinking of. What you're looking to do is adjust the distance between the underbody and the road. If you change the distance from hub centre to arch top, you will adjust where the underbody sits relative to the road. Changing the springs is not likely to make much difference if the car is on its original dampers and they're worn out. 2 new dampers are going to cost around the same as springs and are just as straightforward to fit.

6 hours ago, lichfielddriver said:

The thing is, you cannot change the road-axle measurement (except by off road type lift kits or chassis mods), only the axle to floor pan measurement (via the coil or air bag)

 

Ill probably risk fitting replacement non-OE rear GL springs, £60 if I fit them, the car touches speed bumps front N/S and rear O/S, if it works for the rears ill get upgrdaed shocks and new front springs too

 

Pity Monroe doesnt still sell "load leveller" shocks (with its extra spring)

I think that is a sensible way to go Lichfielddriver, the springs are really easy to fit yourself and may sort the problem.

 

Chimaera makes a good point about swapping the shock absorbers, and it would save you quite a lot of time if you did so simultaneously (you will have to remove the springs to for the new dampers anyway). I fitted Monroe replacement dampers to my car about two years ago (I had an advisory for the right hand one)  - they were not expensive and fitted perfectly, so I would recommend them.

 

Good fortune.

 

Alan

 

PS. If you do change the dampers then this thread may be of some small use to you:

 

 

The Monroe shocks and two sets of stretch bolts cost only £60, which I think was a bargain - if you did the work yourself you could change the springs and shock absorbers for £120 on Saturday morn and be finished by 10:00.

Edited 20 September, 20205 yr by Othen
PS.

Gas struts/shocks are reputed to give the best handling reducing bounce

 

We shall see