So I have finally had to do what I was trying to avoid.  Odo has nearly clicked 69k miles. Mixed urban and longer runs.  I've had car last 35k miles so highly unlikely it has been done, and no signs of inlet manifold or charge pipes having every been removed before.

 

Waiting for the injectors to come back after cleaning and testing.

 

Hopefully put it back together on Friday. Fingers crossed.

 

It wasn't as bad as I thought it might be. I went very slow and watched a few videos before hand.   The worst bit by far is the inlet manifold nose bracket the M10 Spline is a nightmare to reach.  Not looking forward to that on re-assembly.....

 

 

 

 

Well done!  How long did it take?

 

Im waiting for a slot at R-Tech for it to get done!

3 minutes ago, Awesam said:

Well done!  How long did it take?

 

 

Well. I have not yet re-assembled!  

 

So far.

 

On 1 day probably about 3 or 4 hours disassembly then 2 hours or so cleaning.

 

Today another 1 hour cleaning (i'm much better at it now). Throttle body cleaned as well but that was nothing like the valve or ports.

 

Re-assembly? Hopefully 2 hours.

 

But if you have done it a few times that would come down a lot. As I am working on a drive and that includes jacking up car, removing undertray, climbing underneath and back out and back under whilst scratching head... Repeat. You get the idea!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol so leads me to think ive made the right choice!  Ive done >100,000 miles so mines definitely need cleaning.

 

Would be interested to know if there is an improvement in the drivability/response from the engine after it. 

Yes, will do. I am expecting a bit more throttle response. And smoother cold start driving.

 

Maybe fuel economy back up a little would be good too!. It has seemed to get worse lately.  Main reason for undertaking this work is that when cold, under very light throttle, I can detect a slight miss until the engine warms up a bit.  Didn't throw any codes and it only started in the last month or so. 

 

Seems quite consistent with the carbon clogging of the valves and ports symptoms. Finger crossed after all the trouble and the injector clean and tests it will be gone...the fault symptom that is....

 

Edited 25 November, 20205 yr by TheClient

I can see you have the same issue as mine. Would be interesting to see if it sorts it out for you!

Edited 27 November, 20205 yr by bspman

Update 1:

 

The injectors didn't arrive until midday Sat, so pushed things back a little.

 

Injectors all cleaned and passed all tests (leak down, resistance, spray pattern before 2 good 2 Fair, after 4 good). 

 

Re-assembled. Only broke 3 plastic bits in the job! 1 - a small release tab on one of the electrical connectors but it still click locks ok. 2 one of the nipples on the port dividers that fit into the holes on the inlet mani gasket. 3 - on leg on one of the plastic stand off stands for the injectors.

 

After a fair bit of cranking and some key cycles / door opening closing it eventually fired up.

 

Did an oil and filter change.

 

All seems good now.   Throttle control response under light throttle definitely improved.  A road / motor way progress I did not notice a lot of difference tbh.

 

I am hoping the cold start light throttle miss and rough idle will be gone. Will report back after a few mornings.

 

Also hoping that the fuel economy might get back to levels of a year or two back. But to early to report at this stage.

 

 

 

 

 

Well done!

How much did it cost for the injector clean?  Did they change the seals aswell?

 

Too bad the uprated injectors for the CCZ engine are so expensive.

Edited 30 November, 20205 yr by Awesam

Thanks for an interesting write up, a job for me too next year once it warms up a bit!

 

Out of interest, what method did you use for cleaning the valves (And any chemicals used)

 

Thanks

Dan

2 hours ago, Awesam said:

Well done!

How much did it cost for the injector clean?  Did they change the seals aswell?

 

Too bad the uprated injectors for the CCZ engine are so expensive.

 

http://www.injectorcleaning.co.uk/post.htm

£108.95 incl. return special delivery.  Did by mail order. They seem to have done a decent job, they use ASNU gear.

 

Yes, they changed the Orings and the combustion chamber seal, which you are supposed to need a special tool for.  The repair kits with seals and some other bits and pieces like the plastic 3 legged stand off that I broke are £12 a pack from VW (and you need 4no.)! 

 

What are the uprated units - Golf R / S3 units?

 

 

 

Edited 30 November, 20205 yr by TheClient

42 minutes ago, brown_d9 said:

Thanks for an interesting write up, a job for me too next year once it warms up a bit!

 

Out of interest, what method did you use for cleaning the valves (And any chemicals used)

 

Thanks

Dan

 

No problem. When I started last Monday, it was quite mild here, but by the time I was refitting on Saturday it was a lot colder on the hands and more difficult to work for long periods on the drive!

 

I used a stainless dental pick set I bought of Ebay and it was really very good.  I got 95% of contamination off with the picks and scrapers. The thing that also really helped was a workshop vac.  I used it dry, and instead I just used it to vacuum out all the debris periodically, as I cleaned valves / ports.

 

To finalise each port clean, I gave one or two goes with Mannol 9873 Intake valve / EGR cleaner. Used sparingly.  And wiped out the intake ports and valve stems to clean off some of the remaining contamination.  That stuff is potent though.  I used less than a can for the whole job. I have two left as I bought 3!

 

You may want to wear a respiratory mask. Or at least limit exposure as I tried to.  It evaporates off in pretty quick time but I mopped up with shop rags to get all the remaining sludge out.

 

Need to remember not to work on intake ports that have valves open, rotated engine on 24mm crank bolt to alternate.  I stuffed shop rags in everything I left open, like the other ports not being cleaned, injector holes,  intake pipework.  As I tend to drop  screws and bolts and tools and one mistake makes a lot of dismantle time or worse, if you don't notice!!

 

 

 

 

The GEN 1 EA888 TSI (CDL, BYK etc) can take the S3 injectors but the GEN 2 EA888 (CCZA, CCZB etc..) can not.  

 

The cheapest I've seen a set of 4 uprated injectors is 700 euros, they are usually at 1000 euros+. 

Edited 30 November, 20205 yr by Awesam

56 minutes ago, Awesam said:

The GEN 1 EA888 TSI (CDL, BYK etc) can take the S3 injectors but the GEN 2 EA888 (CCZA, CCZB etc..) can not.  

 

The cheapest I've seen a set of 4 uprated injectors is 700 euros, they are usually at 1000 euros+. 

Beyond my budget! Are they better durability or better as in performance for remapped cars stage 2+ etc? 

For stage 2+.  Ive got a K04 conversion sitting at 345bhp.  I had to get the turbo rebuilt so i push the spec to a 380bhp which should be good enough to push 400bhp.

Which i believe the standard injectors should be able to handle.

3 hours ago, TheClient said:

 

No problem. When I started last Monday, it was quite mild here, but by the time I was refitting on Saturday it was a lot colder on the hands and more difficult to work for long periods on the drive!

 

I used a stainless dental pick set I bought of Ebay and it was really very good.  I got 95% of contamination off with the picks and scrapers. The thing that also really helped was a workshop vac.  I used it dry, and instead I just used it to vacuum out all the debris periodically, as I cleaned valves / ports.

 

To finalise each port clean, I gave one or two goes with Mannol 9873 Intake valve / EGR cleaner. Used sparingly.  And wiped out the intake ports and valve stems to clean off some of the remaining contamination.  That stuff is potent though.  I used less than a can for the whole job. I have two left as I bought 3!

 

You may want to wear a respiratory mask. Or at least limit exposure as I tried to.  It evaporates off in pretty quick time but I mopped up with shop rags to get all the remaining sludge out.

 

Need to remember not to work on intake ports that have valves open, rotated engine on 24mm crank bolt to alternate.  I stuffed shop rags in everything I left open, like the other ports not being cleaned, injector holes,  intake pipework.  As I tend to drop  screws and bolts and tools and one mistake makes a lot of dismantle time or worse, if you don't notice!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good man, thanks very much.

Was thinking about going down the walnut blasting route but iI just cant quite bring myself to go for it, im gifted at making a mess! :-)

 

Just ordered 3 cans of it from Ebay, was only £8 something for X3 400ml cans so more than enough!

lol I would love to do it myself however unfortuanately I'm not gifted with much spare time due to a not so understanding wife!

My wife was a little critical about not having the car for 6 days, especially when Sat came around and it was still jacked up on the drive! I had the excuse that I was waiting for the injectors to arrive back, but the extra time meant I could spread out the cleaning a bit.

OK, Update 2:

 

Driven the car this week, starting in the mornings, it has got a lot colder.

 

The cold light throttle missing has gone. Result.   The occasional rough idle where you could feel the car rocking has gone.  It is much smoother and responsive to drive when cold and also under light throttle or the combination of the two.

 

I did not think the wife would notice. But I have sold her short. She said "I just thought it was my driving but it is a lot smoother...", Yes, when the car is not missing and stuttering..... But she would not notice that.   it was quite subtle just felt jerky...

 

Not driven far enough for any conclusions on fuel economy but hopeful it returns to that of the past.

 

How did you get on removing the ridiculous intake manifold support bracket? That thing nearly broke me 

21 hours ago, Rjg said:

How did you get on removing the ridiculous intake manifold support bracket? That thing nearly broke me 

Yep. It was probably the most painful part of the job. Removing and reinstalling the support bracket.

 

Well, I used the spline on a socket with an articulated universal joint connection.  This worked perfectly except for dimensions were so tight to the coolant lines (I had loosened the fastening brackets) as you undid the Spline bolt the socket universal joint would start to foul the coolant lines but I perservered.

 

I did not even remove the bolt or the bracket as a part of the job, I left it hanging.  Then on re-assembly those coolant lines were in the way again but  I perservered.

 

A shorter universal socket connection or Spline bit or removing those hard coolant lines would certainly help. Not enjoyable.

 

 

A bit of thread necromancy - before deciding to get everything opened up - I considered my injectors being potentially being gummed up. 

I added some forte injector cleaner with a full tank of vpower and took it for an italian tune up.

There is a definite improvement with the cold misfire (less often) but it definitely feels more pronounced when it does happen.

 

Using a heavier foot for now when coolant isn't up to temp.

My injectors weren't terrible. They didn't look terrible when I pulled them. The tests pre-clean reported 2 x good 2 x fair.  After 4 x good and the flow was a lot better matched after cleaning.

 

The core problem was definitely the intake ports and intake valves gunked up. Mine is so much better when cold temp driving and idling now.  No more shuddering, missing and vibrating when idling!  I didn't really notice it getting worse over time, apart from slightly higher fuel consumption but then the rough cold driving just occurred and never went away a month or two before I undertook the cleaning.