Octavia Scout Mk3 Rear Suspension

[Admiral777]

Кстати, я проверил крепления передней стойки (спасибо вам и сайту Autodoc), и оказалось, что эти крепления для A5 (6N0412249C) и A7 (6N0412249E) взаимозаменяемы!

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/spidan-chassis-parts/14701246

Это может говорить о том, что пружины тоже взаимозаменяемы?

Edited 30 June, 2022 by Admiral777

[Carlston]

17 hours ago, Admiral777 said:

I thought to put either these 1K0511115CT or these 5Q0511115AN.

 

You have 5Q0511115AN rear springs on your car already. These are the stiffest Octavia MK3 Scout rear springs.

 

The Octavia MK3 Scout 5Q0511115AN rear spring has the same specification as the Octavia MK2 Scout 1K0511115CT rear spring.

 

I've listed the below springs soft, medium, and hard so that you can see the hierarchy.

 

The hard spring is about 10% stiffer than the soft spring, whereas the medium spring is about 5% harder than the soft spring. So they are actually quite close in stiffness.

 

Octavia MK2 Scout rear springs that are equivalent to Octavia MK3 Scout rear springs

Soft

1K0511115CR is the same as 5Q0511115AL (Wire Diameter 12.5mm, Length 378-380mm, Outer Diameter 114-115mm, Weight 2.4-2.45kg)

Medium

1K0511115CS is the same as 5Q0511115AM (Wire Diameter 12.75mm, Length 382-383mm, Outer Diameter 117mm, Weight 2.6kg)

Hard

1K0511115CT is the same as 5Q0511115AN (Wire Diameter 13mm, Length 382-383mm, Outer Diameter 117-118mm, Weight 2.75-2.8kg)

 

Edited 30 June, 2022 by Carlston

[Carlston]

3 hours ago, Admiral777 said:

By the way, I checked the A-pillar mounts (thanks to you and the Autodoc site), and it turned out that these mounts for A5 (6N0412249C) and A7 (6N0412249E) are interchangeable!

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/spidan-chassis-parts/14701246

Does this mean the springs are also interchangeable?

 

The top bearings for the front shock absorbers on the Octavia MK3 Scout have OEM part number 5Q0412249E.

 

5Q0412249E

2

5Q0 412 249 E

deep groove ball thrust bearng

2

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/octavia/oct/2016-753/4/411-411002/#2

 

Top bearings for front shock absorbers with OEM part numbers 6N0412249C and 6N0412249E aren't correct for your car.

 

Edited 30 June, 2022 by Carlston

[Admiral777]

5 hours ago, Carlston said:

Верхние подшипники передних амортизаторов с номерами OEM 6N0412249C и 6N0412249E не подходят для вашего автомобиля.

So, springs from A5 will not work either, and you need to install a spring from Kodiaq, as you recommended?

[Admiral777]

Ты был прав, как всегда. Это подшипники от А5 и от А7. Пружины действительно не подходят.

 

 

 

Edited 1 July, 2022 by Admiral777

[Carlston]

7 hours ago, Admiral777 said:

You were right, as always. These are bearings from A5 and from A7. The springs don't really fit.

 

For your Octavia MK3 Scout to be so much lower than a facelift Octavia MK3 Scout, maybe someone has fitted standard ride height springs before you purchased the car. Either that, or your springs/shock absorbers are simply old/sagging/worn-out, etc. and simply need replacing.

 

Edited 1 July, 2022 by Carlston

[Admiral777]

And what rear springs can you recommend for installation with 5Q0411105DR?

[Admiral777]

What about this: https://www.autodoc.co.uk/eibach/13828886 ?

[Carlston]

5 hours ago, Admiral777 said:

What about this: https://www.autodoc.co.uk/eibach/13828886 ?

 

The link shows Eibach R10494 rear springs that match 1K0511115CS (which is the same as 5Q0511115AN). 

 

Your Octavia MK3 Scout left the factory with 5Q0511115AN rear springs, so this isn't a modification.

 

I haven't seen any longer/stiffer rear springs that will fit your car.

 

Matching 1K0511115CS or 5Q0511115AN rear springs to 5Q0411105DR front springs may cause your car to look like a speedboat, ie. a front end higher than the rear end. As well as having an unladen front ride height about 10mm more than your standard 5Q0411105HS front springs, the 5Q0411105DR are about 10% stiffer. In use, these 10% stiffer front springs will compress less when going over bumps in the road, so if you hit a big bump this could result in the front body height being about 25mm higher compared to the standard 5Q0411105HS front springs.

 

There was an engineering company in Birmingham, England that can make custom springs. For example, the Mini Moke uses Mini parts but is lighter so needs custom springs are needed.

 

Mini Moke (based on original Mini parts, but lighter so needs custom springs as the original Mini springs are too hard)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_Moke

 

If you could find a company that makes custom car springs, then show them a new 1K0511115CS or 5Q0511115AN and ask them to make you a custom spring 10mm longer in uncompressed length and with a wire diameter 0.5mm thicker, ie. 13.5mm wire diameter instead of 13.0mm wire diameter. All other specifications the same, such as outside diameter and number of coil turns. As you can see from the Eibach R10494 listing, the 1K0511115CS or 5Q0511115AN rear springs have 8.8 coil turns. This would then modify your rear springs in a similar way to the front springs when going from the standard 5Q0411105HS front springs to the 10% stiffer and slightly longer 5Q0411105DR front springs.

 

If you don't carry much weight in the back, then the standard 1K0511115CS or 5Q0511115AN rear springs will feel relatively stiffer, compared to how they feel with a heavy rear load. You may then find that fitting the stiffer 5Q0411105DR front springs matches the standard rear springs. For example, when there's no rear load in an estate car you will often notice that the rear end is higher than the front end. This is so that when you do add load in the back of the car, the car doesn't end up looking like a speedboat, ie. with the front end higher than the rear end. 

 

Octavia MK3 4x4 Scout Rear Springs

1	5Q0 511 115 AL	coil spring		2	PR-1JB+0YC
(1)	5Q0 511 115 AM	coil spring		2	PR-1JB,0YD
(1)	5Q0 511 115 AN	coil spring		2	PR-1JB+0YE

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/octavia/oct/2016-753/5/511-511010/#1

 

1K0511115CR is the same as 5Q0511115AL

 

1K0511115CS is the same as 5Q0511115AM

 

1K0511115CT is the same as 5Q0511115AN

 

Edited 2 July, 2022 by Carlston

[Admiral777]

19 minutes ago, Carlston said:

если вы наткнетесь на большую неровность, это может привести к тому, что высота передней части кузова будет примерно на 25 мм выше по сравнению со стандартными передними пружинами 5Q0411105HS

Will it continue only at the moment of contact with the unevenness? Will the car straighten out after driving over bumps?

[Admiral777]

22 minutes ago, Carlston said:

По ссылке показаны задние пружины Eibach R10494, соответствующие 1K0511115CS (то же, что и 5Q0511115AN). 

The Eibach R10494 has 1 turn (8.8 vs 7.8) more and is 4mm longer. Will this somehow affect the height of the rear of the car when installed with springs 5Q0411105DR?

[Carlston]

11 minutes ago, Admiral777 said:

Will it continue only at the moment of contact with the unevenness? Will the car straighten out after driving over bumps?

 

Yes, the car will straighten out after you hit the bump.

 

The point I was making was that if you have to drive over a bad road, you need to consider more than the unladen ride height, but how much the springs will compress when hitting those big bumps in the road.

 

So a 10mm increase in unladen ride height might seem small, but if the spring is now 10% stiffer the in use ride height of the car's body will be a lot more than 10mm, eg. maybe 25mm if you hit a big bump. This 25mm improvement is due to the 10mm increase in unladen ride height that you start with, and also the reduced compression of the suspension due to the 10% stiffer spring. Hence a 10mm increase in front ride height, combined with a 10% stiffer spring, gives a lot more than a 10mm improvement when hitting big bumps in the road.

 

Edited 2 July, 2022 by Carlston

[Admiral777]

But the stiffness of the spring will allow you to maintain the same handling? There will be no buildup?

[Carlston]

15 minutes ago, Admiral777 said:

The Eibach R10494 has 1 turn (8.8 vs 7.8) more and is 4mm longer. Will this somehow affect the height of the rear of the car when installed with springs 5Q0411105DR?

 

5Q0411105DR is a front spring and has 4.8 coil turns.

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/eibach/18259219

 

The Eibach R10494 is a rear spring and has 8.8 coil turns.

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/eibach/13828886

 

Front and rear springs don't need to have the same number of coil turns, and usually don't.

 

Edited 2 July, 2022 by Carlston

[Admiral777]

3 минуты назад, Карлстон сказал:

(8,8 против 7,8

I compared with 5Q0511115AN. And I wanted to know how do you think the rear mounted Eibach 10494 would fit with the front mounted 5Q0411105DR.

Edited 2 July, 2022 by Admiral777

[Carlston]

6 minutes ago, Admiral777 said:

I compared with 5Q0511115AN.

 

Most 5Q0511115AN rear springs show 8.8 coil turns.

 

There is one incorrectly labelled spring on autodoc, the Suplex 30034 spring which isn't a 5Q0511115AN spring.

 

You can tell the Suplex 30034 isn't a 5Q0511115AN spring because it is too short, too light, and the wire diameter is too thin.

 

Edited 2 July, 2022 by Carlston

[Carlston]

13 minutes ago, Admiral777 said:

I compared with 5Q0511115AN. And I wanted to know how do you think the rear mounted Eibach 10494 would fit with the front mounted 5Q0411105DR.

 

If you don't carry much weight in the back of the car, you may find that the 5Q0411105DR front springs and the 1K0511115CT or 5Q0511115AN rear springs are a good match.

 

However, if you carry a lot of weight in the back of the car, ie. a heavy load, you may find that the rear springs are too soft and low to match the front springs.

 

If this is the case, you may have to look at custom rear springs to better match the 5Q0411105DR front springs.

 

Edited 2 July, 2022 by Carlston

[Admiral777]

14 минут назад, Admiral777 сказал:

Ok

 

Edited 2 July, 2022 by Admiral777

[Admiral777]

5Q0411105HR instead of 5Q0411115DR?

Edited 2 July, 2022 by Admiral777

[Carlston]

12 minutes ago, Admiral777 said:

5Q0411105HR instead of 5Q0411115DR?

 

5Q0411105HR is softer than the standard 5Q0411105HS front spring. It's better to fit the standard 5Q0411105HS front spring, rather than the softer 5Q0411105HR front spring.

 

You can see in the chart below that 5Q0411105HR has build code L30 and 5Q0411105HS has build code L31. This is a hierarchy, and shows how the springs relate to each other. Although not conclusive, this is confirmed by reference to the specification of the springs that match the OEM part numbers of these springs.

 

5Q0411105HR has a wire diameter of 12.75mm

 

5Q0411105HS has a wire diameter of 13.0mm

 

Octavia MK3 Scout front springs

(1)	5Q0 411 105 HR	coil spring 1 paint mark 1 paint mark	grey violet	2	PR-L30
(1)	5Q0 411 105 HS	coil spring 1 paint mark 1 paint mark	grey blue	2	PR-L31

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/octavia/oct/2016-753/4/411-411030/

 

Edited 2 July, 2022 by Carlston

[Admiral777]

I am very grateful to you for your assistance and for your professionalism and patience. You helped me a lot.

[Admiral777]

20 hours ago, Carlston said:

Если бы вы смогли найти фирму, которая делает автомобильные пружины на заказ, то покажите им новую 1K0511115CS или 5Q0511115AN и попросите сделать вам пружину на заказ на 10 мм длиннее в несжатом состоянии и с диаметром проволоки на 0,5 мм толще, т.е. Диаметр проволоки 13,5 мм вместо диаметра проволоки 13,0 мм. Все остальные характеристики такие же, как внешний диаметр и количество витков катушки.

Maybe do the same with the front?

[Admiral777]

21 час назад, Карлстон сказал:

Однако, если вы перевозите большой вес в задней части автомобиля, т.е. большая нагрузка, вы можете определить, что задние пружины слишком мягкие и низкие, чтобы соответствовать передним пружинам.

Мне кажется, если подбирать пружины, то, что вы сказали, то лучше всего, чтобы это была продукция одного производителя. Кроме того, они должны быть примерно в том же состоянии физических характеристик, что и исходные, с этой возможностью увеличить клиренс. Я думаю, что они будут:

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/eibach/13829054

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/eibach/13828886

Carlston, did I draw the right conclusions? Am I on the right track?))

Edited 3 July, 2022 by Admiral777

[Carlston]

7 hours ago, Admiral777 said:

Мне кажется, если подбирать пружины, то, что вы сказали, то лучше всего, чтобы это была продукция одного производителя. Кроме того, они должны быть примерно в том же состоянии физических характеристик, что и исходные, с этой возможностью увеличить клиренс. Я думаю, что они будут:

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/eibach/13829054

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/eibach/13828886

Carlston, did I draw the right conclusions? Am I on the right track?))

 

You've linked to 5Q0411105DQ and 1K0511115CT.

 

5Q0411105DQ is about 5% stiffer than 5Q0411105HS, and 1K0511115CT is the same as 5Q0511115AN.

[Admiral777]

1 hour ago, Carlston said:

а 1K0511115CT такой же, как 5Q0511115AN

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/eibach/13828886 4mm longer than 5Q0511115AN and I thought the length could compensate for the stiffness in case of hauling a load. Is not it so?