Hello to my fellow forum members. 

Hape you are all doing well during the pandemic. 

My felly lately developed a strange issue. 

When starting the car 1 out of 5 times the central locking will activate and lock all doors. 

Afterwards you can unlock them normally either by pulling up the driver's or the passenger's lock. 

What could it be? 

Is it factory with anti-theft alarm? Have you tried to turn off the alarm unit?

Edited 27 February, 20215 yr by Papez

8 hours ago, Papez said:

Is it factory with anti-theft alarm? Have you tried to turn off the alarm unit?

yes it is factory with laser line anti theft, i will check what happens if you deactivate the alarm, albeit the alarm works normally and battery is new

21 hours ago, Papez said:

Is it factory with anti-theft alarm? Have you tried to turn off the alarm unit?

So I made a vid with whats happening.
https://youtu.be/vOQgGieG1xU

Those things happen usually when excessive humidity is involved. By that I mean water in door actuators, or water in alarm/central locking unit. Any heavy rain or pressure hose wash lately?

Other than that it may be the alarm/central locking unit itself. Too sensitive or on its way out.

2 minutes ago, RicardoM said:

Those things happen usually when excessive humidity is involved. By that I mean water in door actuators, or water in alarm/central locking unit. Any heavy rain or pressure hose wash lately?

Other than that it may be the alarm/central locking unit itself. Too sensitive or on its way out.

Hi, today i conducted some more tests, when the car is cold, first thing in the morning nothing happens eveything is normal, if the car has run for 15=20 minutes then the issues start, humidity is quite high these days in greece but no heavy rain nor pressure wash.
Moreover the battery is brand new, but it started about 10 days after installing the battery so i doubt its related, all voltages check out.

If I remember correctly, the car alarm (Laserline 989) sends lock/unlock commands to the central locking unit of the car when the remote buttons are pressed.

Let's try to isolate the car alarm by switching it off. I am thinking of these scenarios:

• the car alarm started to fail and sends parasitic lock commands by itself (we all know those cars that start to blare out of nowhere in parking lots)
• the remote lock button makes contact "by itself" from wear, weak spring, whatever

If the issue persists after the car alarm is disconnected, the central locking unit and actuators need a service. Usually fail the objects that have moving parts.

If the issue is gone, you need to service the buttons of the remote or the alarm unit itself (can help with that)

Is there a switch in the centre console or elsewhere to lock/unlock the doors?

 

Could this have had fluid spilt on it or could its action be gummed up by belly button fluff?

 

Could you be placing your phone or something else on top of it?

55 minutes ago, RicardoM said:

the remote lock button makes contact "by itself" from wear, weak spring, whatever

The romote control is not the reason I has deliberately holding it in my hand and watching it. 

 

55 minutes ago, RicardoM said:

the car alarm started to fail and sends parasitic lock commands by itself (we all know those cars that start to blare out of nowhere in parking lots)

Maybe that is the issue but I m wondering why does it act up only if the car has run for a little while. 

And as I said first thing in the morning nothing happens after than that every start car locks itself 

Edited 1 March, 20215 yr by Thefeliciahacker

56 minutes ago, RicardoM said:

If the issue persists after the car alarm is disconnected, the central locking unit and actuators need a service. Usually fail the objects that have moving parts.

On that note how come the behavior based on temperatures the locks are far away from heat or what have you

54 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Is there a switch in the centre console or elsewhere to lock/unlock the doors?

 

Could this have had fluid spilt on it or could its action be gummed up by belly button fluff?

 

Could you be placing your phone or something else on top of it?

No there is no such switch only by depressing either the passenger's or driver lock down can you lock the doors 

4 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Maybe that is the issue but I m wondering why does it act up only if the car has run for a little while. 

Heat is the factor. But let's see what happens if you take the car alarm out of the equation.

27 minutes ago, RicardoM said:

Heat is the factor. But let's see what happens if you take the car alarm out of the equation

I have some time tomorrow will try

5 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

On that note how come the behavior based on temperatures the locks are far away from heat or what have you

 

But alarm unit is in engine bay and it's only component in cetral locking circuit connected to ignition, which is why I suggested it first.

Recently, I had to repair remote, because solder joints fell apart - your unit might have similar issue. Or seals might have failed and let moisture in.

Intresting news everyone after i turned the alarm on and off and let it activate one time the problem seems to have solved itself althoug i doubt that this was the issue to begin with i would like to take some measures to prevent it from happening again therefore im up for ideas

I didn't say to turn the alarm off and on. Even so, turning the alarm off and on equals to a reset. Why would you doubt it wasn't that the problem? I would not enter into details (for now) about the alarms but as a comparison, haven't you ever seen a computer that "hanged" in an uncertain state and you had to push the reset button?

You didn't tell us what happens if you turn the alarm off and LEAVE IT OFF. If the issue disappears then you know for sure it's the alarm that acts up. That would need to open it and have a visual inspection. Most probably you'll have to replace some electrolytic capacitors that got old.

7 hours ago, RicardoM said:

You didn't tell us what happens if you turn the alarm off and LEAVE IT OFF. If the issue disappears then you know for sure it's the alarm that acts up. That would need to open it and have a visual inspection. Most probably you'll have to replace some electrolytic capacitors that got old.

I did that, but obviously from my reply it wasnt clear, my father returned with the car hot and i told him to not turn it off I went turned off and on multiple times and all the times the issue appeared. Then I turned the alarm back off again started the car and no issue. Then i said to my self for experimentations sake, lets re-activate the alram, and hey presto the issue was not there anymore

3 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

I did that, but obviously from my reply it wasnt clea

Most probably that has to do with writing chat-style in one single long sentence, no punctuation, no capital letters at the beginning of a sentence, etc

3 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

i told him to not turn it off I went turned off and on multiple times and all the times the issue appeared

Now really... you call that a clear answer?

All I've asked was a simple thing. turn the damn alarm off and leave it off. By "off" I mean no power source to it. Or even better disconnect the connector from the alarm.

As a conclusion, although you had your doubts (not sure what they were based on) that it wasn't the alarm having issues in relation to sending parasitic lock commands to central locking unit, it was exactly like I suggested (Papez too indirectly). I have explained why that happened, why it could happen again, and how to solve the issue.

Ok lets make it clear,
Alarm was ACTIVE and the issue was present with the car hot.
Alarm got DEACTIVATED (via the key) and issue vanished with the car hot.

Alarm got RE-ACTIVATED and issue was not present with the car hot.
In any case I thought my replies were clear enough but it seems not.
So I will keep monitoring the issue and see if it happens again.
If it does its up for a recap.

1 hour ago, RicardoM said:

Most probably that has to do with writing chat-style in one single long sentence, no punctuation, no capital letters at the beginning of a sentence, etc

For this I apologize. 

On 03/03/2021 at 18:43, Thefeliciahacker said:

Intresting news everyone after i turned the alarm on and off and let it activate one time the problem seems to have solved itself althoug i doubt that this was the issue to begin with i would like to take some measures to prevent it from happening again therefore im up for ideas

 

If i had the same problem first thing i would remove the alarm fuse and his plug for a minute and after i put them as as they was i would turn the ignition key to ON.

I would consider this as an ''alarm reset" but if the problem was occur again then i would ask for an electricians advise because something could go wrong with the alarm's wiring,a short circuit,moisture,pins with dirt etc .

 

A friend of mine had a similar problem: no matter if he was on the traffic light or on the road when his elbow was pushing a little bit the door panel the central lock was activated as he was pushing the driver's safety pin down.

He didn't do anything to fix it but now he knows the cause so if this incident happens he knows the reason and does not get in panic.

Laserline 989SK alarm has a very convenient keyed switch to cut the power to it. No need to mess with any fuse.

 

 

Update. No issues after the reset. 

Also moved the antenna away from the power cable. As I thought the current spike on startup maybe was inducing some energy into the alarm parasitically triggering the central locking. 

Patrol Line car alarm

some models have a switch key too.

 

https://www.jzaballero.org/images/HPS 759.jpg

Edited 21 March, 20215 yr by D.FYLAKTOS

On 16/03/2021 at 20:12, Thefeliciahacker said:

Also moved the antenna away from the power cable. As I thought the current spike on startup maybe was inducing some energy into the alarm parasitically triggering the central locking. 

As an electronics engineer I am not sure about the physics behind your assumption. I know you love your car and you maintain it very well, but let's not misinform the forum fellow members.

On 22/03/2021 at 00:38, RicardoM said:

physics behind your assumption

Ok let me explain.
When the started engages there is a peak current draw. (Impulse type)
That causes a momentary voltage drop from the battery based on its c-v relationship,

Then the starter reaches steady state operation and current flow is pretty constant (not fully) therefore magnetic field strength does not vary with time.
But at the peak current draw the volatage drop and subsequent voltage recovery alters the magnetic field strength and may be able to induce a voltage spike across the antenna. This voltage spike triggers a specific part of the circuit causing it to lock.
A good example is fluorescent lights (the old type with the starter cap) if you had sensitive microphones in the area the voltage spikes (as they attempted to turn on) would be picked up as momentary impulses even if they mics were far far away. That is one of the reasons why you magnetically shield components and cables etc.
And given that my antenna was touching a power wire I find it very propable to parasitically trigger the locking circuit.