Thank you so much for that. It’s certainly echos my contra argument, ie keep the ice. 
spent a few months driving it like an ev, stopping at chargers. Seeing the queues and thinking do I really want that. 

home charging coupled with low tarrif/solar is key to making the maths work. A local run around Zoe van was an early thought. But to do battery and solar is an extra 15k. It all begins to feel like an expensive game to get “cheap” motoring. 
 

I suspect there will be a return and a flurry in a few years. I also suspect deadlines for no new ice will slip, or there will be a lot of imported 100mile cars.

No worries. I read this thread this morning and your contra argument was hitting the nail on the head as to exactly why I’ve gone back, so I had to update on my sale asap !

Luckily I’ve had a good year out of the experience and the money I put into it is back for me to get a vehicle for “cash”.

The government is going about a move to EVs in completely the wrong way. Banning new ice cars from 2030 won’t do anything except turn us into a version of Cuba where instead of 1950s and 60s cars there will be 2010 onwards vehicles being repaired and run for decades.

 

 

Edited 25 November, 20223 yr by classic

Lord Brownlow and others are far too invested into EV's/ Subscription. 

Then there is land, property development and maybe more building out of cities that the 'smart money' & the like of peers and politicians have vested interests in . 

 

Plebs will be driven off the roads if they think they can run ICE vehicles since they had Air Bags as standard well, easily 1970's into 90,s.

then emissions or other items can catch out newer ones..

Too many cars have out of date ones fitted. (they can legislate)

MOT and Insurance changes can do what politicians want & get cars scrapped.

 

Keeping them out of cities, towns and even villages will not be that difficult.

 

Scrappage & incentives for those that might already have money and tough luck if you have not.  Just like help with Home Improvements / energy saving.

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/environment/2022/11/25/ultra-low-emission-zone-will-be-expanded-london-wide

 

Edinburgh.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-63701218

http://www.eva.scot/news/article/plans-for-europes-largest-ev-charging-hub-in-edinburgh-office-development

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 25 November, 20223 yr by toot

On 25/11/2022 at 15:53, classic said:

Think hard before trading in a decent ice car for an ev. In my opinion pre touchscreen/lane assist etc etc ice cars are going to become very valuable and personally I’m getting back on that train before it’s too far out of my station.

Unfortunately I’m in a position as a private owner where the ev car I bought 16 months ago now costs considerably more to operate so the numbers don’t add up anymore.
Somehow, it seems due to Covid, Putin and The Tory Government my income is being outstripped by inflation and I found myself in the bizarre situation where I have no idea what my electricity, gas and mortgage are going to be in 6 months but right now I do know my Enyaq is worth the same as I paid for it. This is despite having 25k on the clock.
In fact it is worth thousands more than I paid for it, but it’s trade price was actually £500 more, so accounting for interest on the pcp Ive run it for over a year and walked away for practically nothing.
Things as they are I decided to cash out and will be back in a fossil/ice asap.
When I got it, with cheap electricity and occasional free charging at work, there was about £100 a month cost to me over running my petrol octavia which was closing in on 100k miles, I was happy to pay this as a premium for having a nice car which had no tailpipe emissions.
Now, charging on rapids costs as much as buying fuel. Charging at home was still ok for me but my fixed energy deal ends in May 23 and will multiply by an unknown factor. Fixed mortgage deal ends next year as well…

 

Was it solely the public charge points cost/availability that turned you off ?

Looking at getting into an EV myself, currently having from a nice (but relatively thirsty) ice.

My journeys would 99% be a case of drive out and back well within the range and charge car at home all the time.

Any longer journeys could be completed in the wifes fossil fueled jalopy 😄

At current fuel and leccy costs, this will be half my petrol costs.

Also no VED for 2 years mot for that period plus and a car under warranty should anything go wrong.

Granted the outlay negates all of that, but its more a case of the monthly bills would be much more appealing, after all there is no logical or financial justification for ever buying a new car  

Edited 5 December, 20223 yr by Mr Grump

Remember there's EV specific tariffs you can use to make monthly cost vastly cheaper.

 

I'm on fixed 1 year electricity tariff, 7.5p/kWh for 4 hours overnight and 35p/kWh other times. ends next July. This allows me to go on 200 miles day trips for less than £6.

At 7.5p/kWh EV costs ~2.5p/mile for me.

At 10-12p/kWh current available tariff, EV costs 3.3-4p/mile.

There will always be off-peak pricing for there will always be peaks and troughs in electric demand. Batteries are well placed to capture that at lowest possible price.

 

I'm averaging 15.6p/kWh for my electricity usage.

Yes my provider doesn't have ev tarrifs but I can move to an offpeak low rate that is  23 .5 p for 7 hours at the expense of a daytime rate that is 3p more than current one rate.

Working my usage, my day use would cost me £11 per month more, but save me £5 per full charge at night.

2 hours ago, Mr Grump said:

 

Was it solely the public charge points cost/availability that turned you off ?

Looking at getting into an EV myself, currently having from a nice (but relatively thirsty) ice.

My journeys would 99% be a case of drive out and back well within the range and charge car at home all the time.

Any longer journeys could be completed in the wifes fossil fueled jalopy 😄

At current fuel and leccy costs, this will be half my petrol costs.

Also no VED for 2 years mot for that period plus and a car under warranty should anything go wrong.

Granted the outlay negates all of that, but its more a case of the monthly bills would be much more appealing, after all there is no logical or financial justification for ever buying a new car  

I justified the new ev based on my 20k plus miles per year so fuel saving was most of the monthly payment. Once the electricity cost (public rapid) was as much as putting petrol into a 45 mpg car then the numbers didn’t add up anymore and the time and inconvenience of rapid chargers started to grate.

If you are out and back from a home charger on a reasonable tariff then it is great (although even that is now expensive). I previously had no pcp car payment, I bought 3 year old cars and ran them until 10 years old saving up over the 7 year ownership to buy the next car. The fact I could effectively cash out of the Enyaq finance, and get  the money back I had used for my deposit to buy another car outright, was too good an opportunity to pass up.

I think if you want an ev and the sums work then go for it. Longer journeys, and I went the length and breadth of the country in mine, are not straightforward though, the infrastructure isn’t great in some areas.

 

 

Edited 5 December, 20223 yr by classic

Doh, i really really never thought that the motor was in the rear. 

No idea why i never considered there was no propshaft.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 24 December, 20223 yr by toot

Healthy competition but at what price to the consumer.

 

 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/id3/355043/new-2023-volkswagen-id3-gtx-electric-hot-hatch-latest

 

 

I've been thinking a Born might be a better replacement for the ID.4 than an ID.3. Same car but with a better interior from what I've read. I'm finding the versions and specs impenetrable though....