130PD engine in 110tdi?

[gilmo]

I currently have 2 mk1 octavia estates, a 110 and a 130 PD. I bought the latter 2 months ago (from a dealer!) and have been informed the sub-frame is rotten and it can't be driven. It's a PD130 6 speed and the engine is great, much better than the 110.

How difficult would it be to swap the engines so the 130 is in the 110?

 

thanks,

 

[KenONeill]

3 minutes ago, gilmo said:

swap the engines so the 130 is in the 110?

Not easy, although you do have all the parts. You need to swap the engine, gearbox, driveshafts, ideally the front brakes and hub carriers, all the engine peripherals including ECU, engine wiring loom, turbo, fans, manifolds, injection (they're different systems although the blocks are the same)...

 

If you mean the same thing as me by the (front) subframe, it would be way easier to take the good subframe out of the 110 and put it in the PD.

[gilmo]

Thanks for that.

There's a fair bit of rust under the 130 I have, the waxoil made it look better than it was when I bought it.

 

The main reason I wanted to go in that direction was the sunroof....

 

This is what I mean by subframe.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324581338706?fits=Model%3AOctavia&hash=item4b928e2e52:g:cTcAAOSw0fpgfnYS

 

TBH, I'd say a lot of the suspension components could do with being changed, front and rear.

 

Are the sus components common between the 2 models?

Wish bones, hubs etc

 

Is the 130 112 PCD wheels as opposed to the 110 on the 110?

 

I have the Haynes manual for the mk1 Octavia, and I wouldn't be afraid to start swapping suspension components but it doesn't specifically say that the manual covers the 130 car.

 

 

[KenONeill]

1 hour ago, gilmo said:

Are the sus components common between the 2 models?

Wish bones, hubs etc

 

Is the 130 112 PCD wheels as opposed to the 110 on the 110?

The front hub carriers, caliper carriers, calipers and discs are different, but will bolt up to the same wishbones and (physically, no promises on spring or damper rates) struts.

 

Both cars have the same 5x100 PCD. I may know more, but could do with knowing trim levels rather than just engine tunes (eg 110 Elegance rather than just 110).

 

I am relatively just down the road in Dumbarton if you want to arrange to meet. Have you opened up the PM system yet?

[KenONeill]

@gilmo OK, since we're talking 2 x Elegance with different engines (and gearboxes I presume), in different countries, you need to move a lot more than "just the engine" to swap engines in the cars. As up thread, the EMS, engine wiring loom, transaxle, driveshafts and front brakes are all different (calipers and disc size), but the front subframe is the same. Indeed, I'm surprised that one appears to have a sunroof and the other a solid roof. (BTW, all else being equal I'd rather have the solid roof because more headroom, conditional on both having Climatronic)

[gilmo]

Thanks Ken,

I'm leaning towards going home to fix the car and driving it back

 

Where in Scotland would one get new stretch bolts?

 

Also the 130 probably needs a ne exhaust. Are these common to other octavias/mkiv platform cars or specific to the 130 octavia (estate)

[KenONeill]

@gilmo

Yeah, replacing a subframe is way less work than doing an engine swap from a "conventional" TDi to a Pompe Duse unit.

 

Not sure you need stretch bolts, but the most likely place to source them around Glasgow is Henry's. As an alternative, there's good old Pistons and Components who're as old as I am or older.

 

As for exhausts, I've always lived near a good welder and/or rapid fit place so don't know off hand beyond that SMS in Dumbarton will be happy to help and don't supply c@rp.

 

 

[Schtum]

56 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

As an alternative, there's good old Pistons and Components who're as old as I am or older.

 

Are they still in business...?  I used to buy parts from them in Edinburgh in the mid 70's.   

[KenONeill]

2 hours ago, Schtum said:

 

Are they still in business...?  I used to buy parts from them in Edinburgh in the mid 70's.   

I checked literally minutes before typing that other message citing them because I wasn't sure...

[petrolbloke]

On 23/05/2021 at 19:56, gilmo said:

I bought the latter 2 months ago (from a dealer!) and have been informed the sub-frame is rotten and it can't be driven.

 

Slightly off topic but unless you've parked it in the sea then you should have some comeback against the dealer. How did you pay for it? Who informed you the subframe is rotten?

[gilmo]

 

20 hours ago, petrolbloke said:

 

Slightly off topic but unless you've parked it in the sea then you should have some comeback against the dealer. How did you pay for it? Who informed you the subframe is rotten?

 

No, right on topic my friend.

 

I did contact the dealer, but they don't want anything to do with it, say it was old and sold as seen. As far as I understand it should be servicable for 6 months under the consumer goods act 2015. At this point it's registered letters stating demands then a small claims court battle; it's on my to do list.

I have a note from a garage saying 'do not drive, dangerous rust', or words to that effect. 

 

I paid with visa debit

 

If anyone has similar a similar experience trying to extract money from a deal, I'd be keen to hear!

 

 

[gilmo]

Damage visable here

 

 

 

[petrolbloke]

Doesn't look good! Any more photos?

 

Private sales are "sold as seen", consumer rights laws apply to sales by dealers. IIRC cars sold dealers should generally be roadworthy unless sold as spares/repairs with disclosed fault(s).

 

Whether or not it's worth pursuing the dealer depends on a number of things:

• Likelihood of ever getting ££ back from them if it went to small claims and it turned out in your favour.
• Age & mileage of the car and how much you paid for it compared to the market rate
• The description of the car
• Whether you asked about corrosion and the dealer's answer(s)
• Whether or not the dealer knew about the fault & potential severity of it before selling it to you.
• How much you value your time and the potential stress of taking it further

A couple of other options:

• Contact your bank and request a chargeback.
• Leave the dealer some online reviews
• Contact citizens advice and any trade bodies the dealer is a member of

I think what I would do is source a clean second hand subframe and get it fitted to the 130. While you're there it might be worth doing ARB bushes and wishbone bushes as well.

[bigjohn]

On 25/05/2021 at 16:28, gilmo said:

 

I did contact the dealer, but they don't want anything to do with it, say it was old and sold as seen.

 

 

 

If sold from a dealer they are not allowed to say this so the law is on your side. You'd probably  win in a small claims court. - as to whether you get any money back though is another matter.

 

Before you consider replacing subframes / suspension etc check the condition of the rest of the body. Not much point fitting new subframes etc if what it attaches to is rotten. The good news is some can be great due to the original body tub galvanizing - subframes and suspension parts are not galvanised so they rot eventually. Check around rear suspension, sills, radiator as well.

 

The other issue is when that rusty you'll probably encounter loads of bolts/nuts/fitments you can't easily undue. Any captive nuts/fitments can be a real show stopper if they shear off.

 

Edited 27 May, 2021 by bigjohn