EV owners:

I know nothing about EV insurance, but I'm guessing that a complicated, fast accelerating car is likely to be expensive to insure.

What's your experience?

Edited 8 August, 20214 yr by Gizmo
Title edited: more than just insurance info required.

40 kWh Leaf and now ID.3 Tour. 
 

No dearer than a 170CR 4x4 Yeti L&K (£247)

That seems reasonable.

They might be fast accelerating but not all are given that quick 0-62 mph by the manufactures and that is helping keep the insurance group low.

Some heavy lumps are not that quick anyway, and they are limited as top speed.

 

Some get pretty cheap insurance for EV's but then that is true with ICE vehicles.

New EV's are pretty loaded with 'safety features'.   That might reduce accidents, but increase repair costs.

 

The market gets to know what the actual risks are and the cost of repairs.

http://whatcar.com/advice/owning/are-electric-cars-more-expensive-to-insure/n18043

http://drivingelectric.com/your-questions-answered/53/are-electric-cars-expensive-to-insure

 

The ID.3 is 7 seconds 0-60, so hardly what you would call slow, yes is limited to (IIRC) 100 mph, but who really drives quicker in the UK?  
 

I also got a quote for a Polestar 2 (0-60 in 4.5 seconds was still £250 ish. 
 

8 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

They might be fast accelerating but not all are given that quick 0-62 mph by the manufactures and that is helping keep the insurance group low.

Some heavy lumps are not that quick anyway, and they are limited as top speed.

 

Some get pretty cheap insurance for EV's but then that is true with ICE vehicles.

New EV's are pretty loaded with 'safety features'.   That might reduce accidents, but increase repair costs.

 

The market gets to know what the actual risks are and the cost of repairs.

http://whatcar.com/advice/owning/are-electric-cars-more-expensive-to-insure/n18043

http://drivingelectric.com/your-questions-answered/53/are-electric-cars-expensive-to-insure

 

Ooh! That What Car article has highlighted a point I'd thought about before but failed to consider in this post: Stealing an electric car without simply grabbing it onto a low-loader can be a tricky prospect.

That said, stealing one for bits might be a very lucrative business. (God bless those poor Honda Jazz owners trying to hang onto their catalytic convertors.)

Edited 7 August, 20214 yr by EnterName
corrected typos

1 minute ago, Gizmo said:

The ID.3 is 7 seconds 0-60, so hardly what you would call slow, yes is limited to (IIRC) 100 mph, but who really drives quicker in the UK?  
 

I also got a quote for a Polestar 2 (0-60 in 4.5 seconds was still £250 ish. 
 

That seems really cheap for the Polestar.

Makes me wonder how insurers will manage to reconcile that price with the high costs for ICE cars?

I guess it comes back to the theft resistance of EVs.

This article talks about charge cable theft, which is something else I hadn't thought about.

https://www.leasefetcher.co.uk/guides/electric-cars/electric-car-charging-cable-theft

 

I really know so little about EVs, and there's a load of stuff I don't know I don't know, too.

0-60 often looks so much quicker & sounding better than the 0-62 mph times given.

Like with my car 0-60 7.6 seconds and 0-62 8.1 seconds. (I have Draggy so know what it can actually do, empty, loaded, on hot roads or cold roads)

 There are EV's that are slugs or just given poorer figures to help with insurance.

 

Then there are cars from the factory with really crap ECO tyres that spin and then the ESR / TC comes in. 

Amazing what better grippy tyres can do and put TC off so no power cut is happening.

 

PS

Cables lock in most cars if the car is locked and tethered cables or your own cable used to charge AC are different matters.

 

Models come in different flavours, different performances and with different insurance groups.

Edited 7 August, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

I guess the market will sort itself out eventually, though I do seem to recall Peugeots seeming to be under-grouped when it came to insurance in the 1990s.

Not sure why that was, but they just seemed to be cheap cars to insure relative to equivalent vehicles from other marques.

Maybe EVs will be favoured by insurance companies.

That said, the accident avoidance tech and theft-resistance of EVs will probably pull prices down.

But I do wonder what the 2nd-hand market will look like in a few years.

IDK, but I'm guessing most EV owners have them on contract, then dump them after 3-5 years before the unknown and possibly big bills start creeping in.

(Apart from Teslas, which from all the grumbling videos on YouTube seem to start going wrong from date of purchase. )

Worth taking Dragy with you when borrowing a demonstrator or just driving something and see what the truth is compared to the manufacturers figures.

Well worth it to see what VW / Audi give compared to say a Skoda or SEAT that might have the same drivetrain but is lighter.  'Honesty is not always their policy.'

Norton has red-flagged Dragy for some reason, so I'll look into that before installing it.

But I agree that manufacturers figures for their cars can be some way off reality.

 

This article caught my eye, it's quite an interesting read, from an EV fleet perspective.

https://global.lockton.com/gb/en/news-insights/managing-the-risk-of-electric-fleets

The author raises the issue of electrical safety tests & limited availability of repair shops for EVs leading to increased repair times and therefore increased repair costs.

I think once the uncertainty dies down when more data is available, things will become clearer.

That can't be too far off, with the big surge in EV sales over the last couple of years.

They really are mainstream now, no more the novelty.

Edited 7 August, 20214 yr by EnterName
Link added

My local council should not have much issue with repair times or accidents etc, the cars are more often sitting around doing nothing.

Others that have fleets allow car clubs or just the hire of vehicles when they are going to be unused otherwise.

My local Council will likely say Covid is why they can not do this, but then they never did it pre covid times.

 

Lots of low mileage EV's from all around the UK that are never raced or rallied & leased cars will be back in trade in the next few years.

Many do hardly any miles and certainly have not been doing in the past 18 months.

Then there are lots of Motability owned EV's that will be back in the trade in 3 years or less. Motabilty are doing amazing offers and they can because the Manufacturers want as many First Registered as they can to meet the Low Average C02 numbers needed to save them millions.

Edited 7 August, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

7 hours ago, e-Roottoot said:

Then there are lots of Motability owned EV's that will be back in the trade in 3 years or less. Motabilty are doing amazing offers and they can because the Manufacturers want as many First Registered as they can to meet the Low Average C02 numbers needed to save them millions.

These are two very interesting points I hadn't considered.

The used EV market is going to be very interesting in a year or two.

 

Thinking ahead, I think dealers will have to come up with some tempting offers for used vehicle buyers to overcome buyer hesitation, and balance that against the risk of high depreciation for used EVs.

From my own perspective, the prospect of buying a used EV is filled with uncertainty.

As ignorant as I am, I still fancy myself as someone who is able to buy a decent ICE car, and avoid a duff one.

This (perhaps misplaced) confidence is because I've been driving ICE cars for getting on for 40 years, and I am familiar with them.

I know how an ICE car sounds when it's healthy, and I know how it sounds when it's not. Likewise I know the way they should drive, what the exhaust smoke should (or nowadays shouldn't) look like, mayo in the oil, discoloured coolant, etc.

 

But there's clearly so much I don't know about EVs, that I really wouldn't know where to start.

Pulling random imaginary worries straight out of the air:-

How would I know if the regenerative braking on the front offside wheel is knackered? How much does it cost to put right?

How would I know if the battery or a motor is on the way out? How much would that cost to put right?

How do I tell if an EV has been thrashed?

How can I tell if an EV has been "clocked"? (Can you even clock an EV?)

 

I think there's a big EV learning curve for anyone who tries to buy their car as a well-informed choice.

Not only are there things I don't know about EVs that I'll need to learn to buy on with confidence, but there are certainly things I don't know I don't know about EVs.

Just as a random worry, how would I know if there's an issue with the battery cooling system? It's only by chance I even know that EV batteries have cooling systems, and I don't know if that's common to all EVs.

Goodness knows what I'd need to look for being covered by warranty for an EV!

Given how clueless/dishonest car salesmen are about EVs, the opportunities for plausible deniability on outrageous lies about EVs are considerable.

 

I think a lot of people will be fine, because they'll just go an buy a car they like and the chances are that they'll have little to no trouble with it.

But I suspect that for a lot of grumpy old sods like me, who view things like GPFs & KESSY with a good deal of cynical suspicion, buying their first used EV is likely to be a troubling challenge.

Regen braking works with the motor regening / retarding the speed. 

My brake discs are red with rust as i hardly ever use the brakes and neither does the car when i am using the regen to slow the car.

The Battery life at a period of time is covered by a guarantee, different years for different manufacturers and pecentage of battery after so many years, like 8 years.

 

Many clueless salespeople of new and used EV's around. 

Even ones that are driving them as their daily, and need do nothing other than charge them at their work place so know little about the charger network.

Little about much to do other than drive the demonstrator for 3 months / 3,000 miles and keep it looking good for when it is sold as an 'Ex Management car'.

 

 

 

You need to be aware of cars that do not have CCS rapid charging because of the age or type.

Not all need it if they just want to charge at home or work and maybe do low miles. Or if on trips know charging will take longer.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 8 August, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

Re. Servicing or battery repair or replacement.   (We know many cars do not have paper Service Books anymore.)

Main Dealers, Independent Specialists, Mobile Maintenance people.  More trained techs are about all the time. 

Now Collages are doing the courses and even working with Main Dealers or Motor Groups in their area getting apprentices trained or people up-skilling.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/481729-ev-service-costs

 

3 year old vid.

 

 

 

 

Just to add, my Leaf costs about the same as my Octavia, both in insurance and cost to purchase. Leaf is 1 year younger.

 

For servicing, Leaf handbook just says need to change brake fluid and pollen filter. So I DIY'd them myself and I've never spent a penny servicing the Leaf at any garage (after PCP free servicing deal ran out a few years ago).

 

 

6 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Just to add, my Leaf costs about the same as my Octavia, both in insurance and cost to purchase. Leaf is 1 year younger.

 

For servicing, Leaf handbook just says need to change brake fluid and pollen filter. So I DIY'd them myself and I've never spent a penny servicing the Leaf at any garage (after PCP free servicing deal ran out a few years ago).

 

 

Free servicing sounds pretty sweet.

FWIW My ID.4 is costing almost the same to insure as my Karoq 2.0Tdi 4x4 did. I think the ID.4 is about £10 a year more. So far the increased PCP cost has been offset by fuel savings, so its costing broadly similar to run / own.

So let's say I'm me (which I am) and I decide I'm going green and cheap and buying an EV.

How do I tell the difference between a good EV and one that's got some expensive problems not too far off?

A good EV, this means different things to different people. To me, who already have EV for local runabout and looking to replace the roadtrip Octavia, it means having access to good charging network and able to quickly cover long distances efficiently. So I look at an EV specialist reviewer's data for his extensive 1000km challenge (the 1000km tab) .

 

One that may have expensive problems? EV specific manufacturer warranty generally go for 8 years. So you only need to worry about whether the vehicle you are looking at is a lemon in the general car sense.

 

 

Although for second hand buying, check the brakes, if driven gently, the brakes are used so little it might corrode. The EV powertrain is mostly maintenance free and problem free for the lifetime of vehicle. Some may require coolant change or reduction gear oil change on similar interval as ICE timing belts. So even when buying old, there's less of a chance to get a lemon because it hasn't been serviced properly.

 

Another thing is I would prefer NOT buying showroom cars. All the Leaf's I've see at Nissan dealers (while using their free charger or servicing) are kept at <10% battery charge, similar to how they store ICE cars. But problem is, Li-on battery prefer to be stored at around 50% for longevity.

Personally i would not change a 2019 TSI for a EV unless there are reasons to like Business Use, Low Emission Zone driving etc or you need to be changing cars.

Buying as a 2nd car is a different thing.

 

I was thinking of getting a bigger EV with more range and only having one vehicle that would suit my needs, MPV or Estate required that can have a tow bar.

Now i have changed my mind and do not think i might even get another EV when my car from Motability goes back in 2 years.

 

In Scotland the EV Charging will need to improve greatly in 2 years. That is not just more chargers but the proper maintenance of the public use ones there are.

Even ones you pay at can be out of order and you get no reply on the phone from CPS or even the Shell / BP setup.

Thank goodness there are InstaVolt chargers about.

 

Between Thursday and Sunday i reported 5 CPS operated chargers that were out of order by the Fault Site.

That was because the Call Centre was not working. 2 of those have been out of order for weeks. 

 

Only the Edinburgh Park & Ride charger has been Flagged on ZapMap & PlugShare are out of order, the others have not been, but then i find many people never report faults to the provider or even log in and out of chargers on ZapMap / PlugShare to assist other users in knowing if they are working or might have issues.

Same experience with public chargers here.

 

Yesterday, I drove 30 miles, the Leaf at 50% in mild summer weather should comfortably do the 30 miles with a few percentage to spare, it had 55% when we set off, so at least 10% when get back. Got there with 30% remaining, I thought "it's plenty" and didn't queue for the sole rapid at Morrisons. On return, wind and rain picked up and percentage dropped quickly. I was forced to visit a rapid charger, this is where the fun began:

1. Two Ecotricity rapids, both were not available on their app. Electric Highway is being upgraded after recent buy-out, so this is to be expected.

2. Detour off route and visited the Shell recharge, single charger, guy in a old Renault van says he needs 40min more.

3. Shell recharge a few miles further, contactless doesn't work, charger isn't on their app. Phoned and helpline lady said use another app, the app couldn't let me proceed to start a charge. Thankfully the helpline was active during Sunday and the lady remotely started a free session for me.

 

So I visited grand total of 4 charging locations, 5 chargers, only the last one wasn't occupied or broken, but still unable to provide a charge as advertised. I just charged for 10min, only needed a tiny bit to get home, but was home 1 hour later than expected and my son was cranky from being hungry and close to his nap time.

 

 

EV as second local runabout makes a lot of sense, allowing you to do high percentage of your miles on electric and save loads of money. But EV as only car and rely on the public charging network? Now is still too early. For England, at very least wait until GridServe have finished upgrading all Electric Highway chargers and there's more than a handful of rapid charging hub forecourts. Single chargers are totally unreliable and unacceptable just 9 years away from 2030.

42 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

Personally i would not change a 2019 TSI for a EV unless there are reasons to like Business Use, Low Emission Zone driving etc or you need to be changing cars.

Buying as a 2nd car is a different thing.

Sorry if I was unclear, I won't be getting rid of my Octavia for about a decade, unless an unforeseen issue arises.

 

8 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

EV as second local runabout makes a lot of sense, allowing you to do high percentage of your miles on electric and save loads of money. But EV as only car and rely on the public charging network? Now is still too early. For England, at very least wait until GridServe have finished upgrading all Electric Highway chargers and there's more than a handful of rapid charging hub forecourts. Single chargers are totally unreliable and unacceptable just 9 years away from 2030.

This is really useful advice for people thinking of moving to EV as their main vehicle.

50 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

Between Thursday and Sunday i reported 5 CPS operated chargers that were out of order by the Fault Site.

That was because the Call Centre was not working. 2 of those have been out of order for weeks.

Presumably this is down to technical faults, not vandalism?

I've no idea what vandalism of charging stations is like, but I'd assume it's going to be on a level with public phones. The "worse" the local area, the higher the vandalism.

I can only imagine the chaos to a local area determined vandals could cause.

I'm guessing theft of expensive parts from charging stations might become more common, in time.

Edited 9 August, 20214 yr by EnterName
Turned first sentence into a question.