Running discussion - experiences, tips, equipment, motivation, etc

[Gerrycan]

I'm not sure how many runners there are are on Briskoda but but instead of hijacking Mac's diary I thought I'd start a general discussion area for runners.

 

My journey:

I was mis-diagnosed with arthritic knees in my late teens and advised to give up many of the physical activities I was engaged in to avoid potential replacements in my thirties.

Discovered cycling in my late twenties, bought a decent bike with toe-clips, suitable gearing and a high cadence fixed up all the knee pains I experienced each Autumn. I became a bit of a cycling fanatic, cycling the 10 miles into London to work each day and a keen European cycle tourer.

Came to Australia and in my mid-thirties I got into running through involvement with a short corporate team triathlon, I was a necessary addition to the team as I had the bike which everyone used. Everyone in the team each did a 300 metre swim, 8 kilometre cycle and a 2 kilometre run in succession.

Before the event I did a 2k run, my first in years, and it nearly killed me. I swear I was coughing up blood which was a bit of a shock for someone who thought they were aerobically fit.

My run in the event itself was a joke as I put everything into the cycle part (it was what I did after all) and then suffered cramps when I tried to run from lack of transition training. I was overtaken by grannies pushing their shopping trolleys from an adjacent supermarket (seriously).

 

SO I got into triathlons for a few years until work and family commitments got in the way of training for the three disciplines and I turned to running as the most time efficient way of retaining some fitness.

I should add that my previous dedication to only cycling had caused bad back problems and I was also diagnosed with osteoporosis. However, running improved my (previously) weak stomach muscles and provided the weight bearing exercise I needed to reverse my bone density issues. Back problem fixed.

 

My doctor, optician and dentist tell me I am in good condition, but always with the caveat, "for my age".

When I do the occasional Parkrun (mostly when away on holiday) I may win my age category but there is often someone, one or two age categories older, sometimes female, who does a better time. I am competitive but I was never athletically gifted and know the enormous gulf that exists to the truly talented.

 

A 'beep test' is a shuttle run between two points 20 metres apart at incrementally faster times to recorded beep tone. It is brutal.

I did one the other day and the disappointing result was indicative I need to mix up my training a lot more to offset natural muscle loss from ageing and improve my anaerobic capacity.

I've got in a comfortable and repetitive running routine (rut) of just going out a few times a week.

 

My tip for the day:

I get athletes foot (tinea pedis) fairly regularly and I always hated the chemist creams but someone put me onto regular applications of simple methylated spirits and it is no longer a problem for me. Apply early as soon as you get that itch, as the alcohol stings a bit on an open wound. One of my casual jobs brings me into regular contact with elite athletes, a young professional football player I spoke to suffered a really bad secondary infection from his tinea that required medical treatment, antibiotics and missing a few games, so it can get serious if left unattended.

 

 

Edited 28 October, 2021 by Gerrycan

[mac11irl]

@Gerrycan 

 

fair play for starting your own discussion  it may well draw in some more members too

it reads like youve had a pretty athletic life that just always had something in the way. i know exactly how that feels.. but youre pushing on to keep improving which is the most important part.

 

re the the tip for the day - ive never suffered from it, but swmbo tends to get it almost chronically. non of the otc creams do a thing to it, rexkon its all total snakeoil tbh. so ill be asking her to try your tip

 

[Gerrycan]

'Athletic life' is a bit of a stretch but I like to think I have remained active, necessary because most of my working life involved relatively sedentary office jobs.

 

My son is a very active and fit firefighter and having to wear heavy firefighting equipment in hot Australian weather means his boots are a fungal heaven but says using methylated spirits has kept it under control. Hopes it works for your wife, it usually takes two or three days before noticeable improvements. You can substitute rubbing alcohol but they will both sting on application if the wounds are raw. I think it is effective because apart from the antiseptic effect it dries the area between the toes as it evaporates.

[Gerrycan]

Running Shoes:

 

There are kids that can run over the stony beach at Brighton like it was sand and others who look like they are walking on broken glass. Needless to say I fell in the latter category.

This meant that my running prowess at school was considerably hampered by the standard issue school plimsoll (of the time) which consisted of a thin plastic base with a semi-breathable artificial shoelace-tied cover. In my case they were cripplingly bad.

 

Years later my seminal moment was buying a pair of then very fashionable Reebok runners. That is so long ago that they still featured the British flag prominently on the box.

They felt like slippers and at last running did not hurt! Best shoes I have ever bought and lasted for years but later editions were cheapened down so I jumped brands

 

For many years of running I was an Asics devotee but increasing prices and another apparent quality reduction means I have become an agnostic.

Literarily "If the shoe fits, at a reasonable price, I'll wear it" 

 

I do have foot problems with classic symptoms of mild plantar fasciitis, the first few footsteps in the morning are always pure pain and reminiscent of my youth on Brighton beach.

I did have a major flair-up of the condition a few years back, which side-lined me, and did everything to avoid surgery (anecdotally only 50% success rate) and I found that using a low heel running shoe on grass rectified most of the issues. The brand was Merrill and I found their last in that shoe suited my foot profile really well, unfortunately that model has apparently been dropped from their range.

 

I buy a Neutral shoe (I am not quite flat-footed) with a wide fitting to avoid pressures on my arthritic big toes (self inflicted with a bad landing attempting a somersault dismount off gymnastic rings) and currently favouring New Balance and Brooks. Whoever has the best sale prices at the time. I am fussy but cheap!

 

One thing is for sure, even though I have had a few running induced injuries (foot fracture, both Achilles tendons, sprained ankle over the years) my feet are a lot better now because I have persevered with running than if I had just given up.

My wife and I manage to walk a few kilometres barefoot along the beach most days, needless to say it is a sandy beach

 

Edited 2 November, 2021 by Gerrycan

[Gerrycan]

Inspirations and perhaps a warning:

 

While I admire the performances of elite athletes the fact that they have always been so above anything I can dream of attaining I have never really found them to be motivational.

I'm a sucker for stories of what Australian's call "battlers". Achievers despite adversity, little support or others expectations.

 

Classic example was the inaugural running of the Melbourne to Sydney Ultramarathon in 1983 with a then massive $10,000 prize. It attracted some of the world's best athletes most of whom were in their 30's, and also a 61 year old local potato farmer called Cliff Young who signed up still dressed in his work clothes and boots.

To be honest he did not look 61, more like 70+ and apparently it took a bit of persuading for the organisers to take his entry seriously.

At the start the other athletes flew off into the distance and he shuffled off after them to a fair bit of disbelief and  ridicule from press and spectators.

But Cliff had a plan, when the other runners stopped to rest at night, he did not stop but just shuffled on with just two hours sleep each night, sometimes less.

Long story short he won the 875 km run by 10 hours and broke the old record by a couple of days. He did not know about the prize money and chose to share it evenly with the next five finishers keeping none for himself. 

 

When he was 75 he attempted the 16000 km run record around the circumference of Australia to raise money for charity but had to pull out after 6520 km because his only support crew member fell ill and had to go to hospital.

 

He died when he was only 81, and I guess that is the warning that sometimes you can overdo it, but his story still inspires me that age is not an excuse to stop a sensible running/exercise routine.

[Gerrycan]

I mentioned in @mac11irl's running and bike diary that I had tried to adopt a more natural running style to overcome the bad postural habits I had developed over time.

Seems to be working reasonably well for me although it is still something I have to concentrate on maintaining, it is not natural yet and I can easily lapse.

I had an initial 30 second improvement on my 5km circuit which I was able to largely maintain, and rather excitingly there was a further 30 second improvement which may be a bit of an outlier for a while but there is a definite trend for the better.

I really would like to get back to 5 minute kilometres, and the 6 seconds a km I need is going to be the difficult one.

It only represents about a hundred metres improvement but according to the online reading I have been doing the best thing I can do at my age is some additional strength work.

Not my favourite activity but I will see if I can fit some in, you know to test the science.

Edited 16 November, 2021 by Gerrycan

[Gerrycan]

Have to work over the next few days and it is quite physical so I kept my 'strength' session short but was still shaking with the effort at the end.

Started with BEEP test which is shuttle running between two points 20 metres apart to a recording with increasingly short time between 'beeps').

Starts with a slow 10 laps of around 8kph, then the next 10 laps at 9kph and then each 10 laps it increases by .5kph (I think that's right). Very popular with sporting organisations and the armed forces for a fitness measurement .

 

I did one about 3 weeks ago and was happy to achieve 7.1 (1 lap of the 7th speed increment) in windy conditions but today was pretty ideal and I got to 8.1. 

This time I remembered my heart rate monitor and apart from how I felt I know there was nothing left in the tank as my heart rate peaked at 191. I can run 7km and not feel as shattered after only 7 minutes of the beep test. Did a few pull ups, push and sit ups after.

 

The general formula for maximum heart rate is 220 minus your age (which would make me 29 years old, which I most definitely am not) but it is only a guideline and it will depend on your general level of fitness whether it is appropriate. Scandinavian research has confirmed that the fitter you are the higher your max heart rate can be over the formula but it also works the other way if your fitness is initially poor.

Anybody engaging in exercise as a beginner should get a medical check up first (never a bad thing anyway as you get older) and get qualified fitness instructor advice for an appropriate exercise regime.

Start off light and build condition gradually, don't be afraid to listen to your body when it tells you it has had enough.

Edited 17 November, 2021 by Gerrycan

[Gerrycan]

My Garmin Vivofit 2 that I found on the beach about 6 years ago has slipped off my own wrist (seems a certain poetic karma in this) and I am now in the market for a cheap  and effective replacement.

There is a Vivofit 4 that looked ideal at a mere au$79 until I found that this later version could not be linked to a heartrate monitor. I mean what the ....?

 

Shortlist so far is:

Fitbit Charge 4 at AU$179 with heat rate monitor, GPS and various other bits, including that it can monitor my menstrual cycle (apparently)

Fitbit Charge 5 at $269, similar features but with colour touch screen and enhanced heart monitor to ECG status (I am getting old)

 

Garmin Venu SQ at AU199 looks a good option too.

 

Anybody with personal experience of any of these or other suggestions? I'm not too interested in the full smart watch thing and I don't listen to music on a run.

[J.R.]

I have had a Garmin Forerunner 235 for about 3 years and am quite pleased with it, it's the ability to save your runs and 24 hour data of heart rate, steps, aerobic effort, sleep etc to a smartphone that I like, the watch alone can only give limited data which my eyes can't read anyway.

 

The battery is getting old now and needs charging once a week.

 

Several others in my running club have Garmin watches and are happy with them, most of them luddites and technophobes like me.

[mac11irl]

@Gerrycan lotta reports online of fitbits that start cocking up the distance measurements. including just the smartphone app... i wouldnt touch one of them...

[Gerrycan]

There do seem to be a few issues with Fitbits reported and it turns out they are owned by Google  and I think they already have enough information about me.

 

I did have a TomTom gps watch a few years back and that was good up to the point the buttons failed after about three years. and there were lots of similar online complaints about that unit, usually in a shorter timeframe. Three years seems to be about the operational life for these watches.

My Polar heartrate monitor is about 25 years old and still going strong with button cell replacement  every 2 years or so, but I'm not keen on the chest transmitter as I find them a bit restricting.

 

Probably going for a Garmin, probably the $200 unit and hope it lasts well beyond the 1 year guarantee. 

Bonus is that it is made in Taiwan and not China, I try to avoid products from the latter as much as possible for a number of ethical and distrust issues.

 

May wait until after Christmas though as I'm working everyday up to Christmas so no running and based on previous experience the price will drop.

Thanks everyone for comments

[J.R.]

When I have run in competitions, semi-marathons and one marathon (bailed through injury at 32km) I hit the start button when passing under the start line on my Garmin, there were KM markers along the course and my watch would always beep within a few yards of all of them, sometimes before, sometimes after, at the end of a 21km semi it was rarely more than 50m out which I found amazing.

[Gerrycan]

17 hours ago, J.R. said:

When I have run in competitions, semi-marathons and one marathon (bailed through injury at 32km) I hit the start button when passing under the start line on my Garmin, there were KM markers along the course and my watch would always beep within a few yards of all of them, sometimes before, sometimes after, at the end of a 21km semi it was rarely more than 50m out which I found amazing.

I mentioned I had a GPS watch for about 3 years and I had similar impressive results. When looking close at the mapping of the run it even accurately showed which side of the road I ran on, even the footpath.

However there is a domestic use algorithm and a commercial/military version and the difference is the former is accurate to within metres and the latter is centimetres.

It is particularly obvious when looking at reported height. When I ran along the beach tideline the vertical variation could be more than 10 metres and particularly amusing when it showed up when canoeing as it was never that rough out there.

 

Over longer distances it all averages out to very good accuracy. Same in a car, gps where speeds are inconsistent at crawl pace but far more accurate at speed

 

Kudos to you for doing marathons, it is not something I think I could do. When I run I really perspire and over 7 km I can lose about 1kg in weight or 1litre of sweat and I'm not sure I could drink 4 litres of water during a 42 km run. When I did Olympic distance triathlons I found hydrating on a bike a lot easier.

Also I've known a few former keen marathon and ultra marathon runners and I am a little perturbed at the high instances of knee and hip operations many have incurred.

[J.R.]

I did one or two semi marathons a year, never ran any further, I trained properly for my first marathon (Lille) for my 60th birthday but had injuries while training which I forced through, they came back with a vengeance on the marathon and I had to join the van with the other cripples.

 

I never tried again and have barely run at all since the confinement, when I do it will be starting from scratch again with a 10kg handicap.

 

The watch is still very usefull for monitoring my heart rate, intensity minutes, sleep etc.

[Gerrycan]

Any activity you enjoy is good for you, it doesn't have to be running.

My wife is nearly 60 and just doesn't have the knees for running but still enjoys a brisk 10km walk around the local lake. She walks faster than I do and I have trouble keeping up  .

Her physio has recommended more cycling for muscle development support for her knees which is something we used to do a lot, but we are both working a lot more lately than we really planned for or wanted at this stage in our lives.

I consider I am lucky that most of my casual work involves a lot of movement and I'm not stuck behind a desk and computer like my wife is. Been there, done that!

 

[Gerrycan]

At the annual family Christmas present distribution my wife passes me a small wrapped gift from her boss. Somewhat mystified, I opened it to find it was my lost Garmin Vivofit!

I knew I had probably lost it between some big gymnastic mats when assisting loading them onto a few trucks after a big competition set down, and somehow it was found and returned to the office.

Still tempted to upgrade after all my research and my son has given me his now unused Samsung Smar****ch with integrated GPS and heartrate monitor to try. Apparently he has found a Garmin more suited to monitoring all his athletic activities, especially as it can be linked to a more accurate chest heart rate monitor.

 

Confession time: I have sinned by not running for two weeks due to a very heavy workload leading up to Christmas and then a bit of a reaction to my booster jab. I should be able to get something in over the next couple of days though.

[Gerrycan]

The planned post Christmas run did not happen due to more work and then a possible Covid infection which is eventually present in most of Australia but they lost my PCR test so I will never really know if I did. Being triple vaccinated symptoms were minor, if indeed it was covid.

Long story short, I ran  5km the other day after nearly four weeks and boy did it hurt. I cannot believe how much condition I have lost.

Ran again today and my calves were complaining loudly at my decision. Conditions were ideal early, sunny, a cool 18 C, and little wind and enjoyable.

I run about 20 seconds a kilometre slower and I wonder how long it will take to get some of that time back. I cannot even use the excuse I had put on weight.

 

Just goes to show that even doing up to 30k steps a day at work shifting stuff doesn't keep you match fit.

 

Edited 9 January, 2022 by Gerrycan

[mac11irl]

18 hours ago, Gerrycan said:

Conditions were ideal early, sunny, a cool 18 C, and little wind and enjoyable.

 

18 degrees is cool.... what an Aussie interpretation of the weather thsts a decent summers day here!

[Gerrycan]

3 hours ago, mac11irl said:

 

18 degrees is cool.... what an Aussie interpretation of the weather thsts a decent summers day here!

Yeh, it's all relative though. It got up to 24 degrees later in the day, which is pretty cool for the time of year.

Today the wind has a more Northerly component bringing the heat from the interior so 35 degrees max and only dropping to 24 degrees overnight.

The temperature does not worry me too much except when there is also direct sunshine, it can be rather intense. Good for the PV panels though  

 

I did more early morning walking and swimming today which has markedly reduced the calve pain. I'll see what tomorrow brings as my casual work has been cancelled due to general fear of the expanding covid infections persuading people to avoid big events. Funnily enough not just government mandated restrictions.

[Gerrycan]

Managed to string together a few runs but conditions have been warm, so today got out early enough to get some shade from seafront housing as I ran.

A fairly determined effort got back 45 seconds of the 1:30 I lost form my 5.3 km run so I think it I can continue my  3 run per week routine I should hopefully get back the remaining missing minute in the next month.

 

However, speaking with my son tonight about running and he was describing how taking a slower pace with his fireman colleagues during their training runs has increased his enjoyment of running.

Made me realise I may be getting a bit hung up on my times and should try and 'smell the roses' a bit more.

Reminds me of when I used to travel round Australia for work and I liked to go out for a run to explore country areas and major interstate cities. Times and distances were not really important and I really used to enjoy them, even when I got a bit lost, as I have got a truly lousy sense of direction.

Probably the best way to regain that feeling would be to go out on my normal run without a watch (h/r monitor, gps).

Not sure how I'd cope going cold turkey without instrumentation though  

Edited 16 January, 2022 by Gerrycan

[Gerrycan]

I am not running without my watch yet but I am certainly running slower, but really not by choice.

You may even have noticed that two days of the Women's Ashes series was rained off in Adelaide as some parts of the state's more remote parts received record breaking falls.

Rain in January is very rare here and the ensuing hot and humid tropical weather has not made it easy for me. I have always perspired easily but I lost 1.2 kg in weight on my 5 km run today and that would have all been sweat, about 1.2 litres of it. 

Annoys me a bit that most other runners I see out do not perspire anywhere near as bad as I do.

 

SO I have googled about sweat rates and associated sodium loss and it seems there is a huge variation in both between individuals.

A five fold variation in sweat volume has been recorded and salt concentration can vary between 200mg and 2300mg of salt per litre, although the concentration is largely determined by genetics.

Seems that low sodium levels can promote heavy perspiration and very patchy performances and there are a few other symptoms I've exhibited.

 

Our national diet recommendations recommend only 3 grams of salt a day, and I have long preferred a low salt diet, so much so that when I eat out and have a really salty meal I can get a sort of hangover and bloated feeling (only one glass of wine honest). On a general level it has worked well for me with acceptable blood pressure reports but I think a few more grams of salt might be a good idea just at the moment.

[Gerrycan]

No casual work due to Covid so I've been running more frequently but the hot humid weather has made it less enjoyable, and my times are quite poor.

However there is a break in the weather for a couple of days and while it is a bit windy the cooler weather is really welcome and the times have improved somewhat.

Funny how you never get back the all the time downwind  that you lose going into wind.

[mac11irl]

i read your post about the sweating and found it very interesting... in my younger fitter martial arts days i would break a sweat but nothing like the rivers that flow out of me these days.

and its not just when running, i mean its like my body says "oh your doing a thing, we better keep you cool". doing stuff isnt even a smidge challenging physically, and yet im gettin sweaty.

 

my diet is quite low in salt overall. i tend to not use much of it when when cooking, barely any tbh. its partially down to that idea that too much salt is bad for your heart and theres a not great heart history on my mothers side, so ive always been aware of my intake and cut it down as much as i could.. so, yeah, my sodium levels may actually be low thus the sweating issue. may have to look at that 🤔 

[Gerrycan]

On 08/02/2022 at 19:42, mac11irl said:

i read your post about the sweating and found it very interesting... in my younger fitter martial arts days i would break a sweat but nothing like the rivers that flow out of me these days.

and its not just when running, i mean its like my body says "oh your doing a thing, we better keep you cool". doing stuff isnt even a smidge challenging physically, and yet im gettin sweaty.

 

my diet is quite low in salt overall. i tend to not use much of it when when cooking, barely any tbh. its partially down to that idea that too much salt is bad for your heart and theres a not great heart history on my mothers side, so ive always been aware of my intake and cut it down as much as i could.. so, yeah, my sodium levels may actually be low thus the sweating issue. may have to look at that 🤔 

 

I've read that 90% of people will experience high blood pressure in their lives and, as you said, that is mainly attributed to over consumption of salt in our diet so I think you have the right approach but it is not real easy to work out what is right.

My paraplegic sister was in hospital a few weeks back and apparently she was told she was over hydrating and her subsequent low sodium levels were causing her problems. You really cannot win.

I can't find an easy way to test your sodium levels other than through a professional blood test. There's nothing like a simple ***** tester for blood sugar levels that the diabetics have. 

I have not had a medical check up for a couple of years so I think I'll make an appointment and they usually do a pretty thorough investigation of senior citizens including blood and ecg. The downside is all the shave points for the ecg attachments looks a bit weird, or I just shave my chest and the wife can't stop laughing when she looks at me.

 

Cooler, low wind day today and a much better run than in the hot weather, with a semi-respectable average 5:15 per km. I might have to give up on the hope of ever getting back to down to flat 5's ever again though.

[Gerrycan]

Not specifically running but I have to comment on viewing a 20km walk which is not something I have done before.

It is always incredible seeing elite athletes doing their thing, their technique, and stride rate is almost mesmerising. Conditions were remarkably good for the event being cool, clear and calm, which you would expect early in the morning but never guaranteed locally at this time of year.

The leading guys averaged near 15kph, that's four minute kilometres, for the whole distance and to my uneducated eye the eventual winner was going a bit better than that in the final stages.....walking!

The organisation was very slick as there multiple events for different distance, sex and age groups which were all finished within a couple of hours.

The other thing that impressed me again was the level of mutual support and friendship between the competitors after the races, for both those who achieved at junior ranks and those who DNF due to physical issues or penalties. 

 

Edited 15 February, 2022 by Gerrycan