Maybe the EU and the UK and USA should be just making the personal transport vehicle have to be as Efficient in there manufacturing and their functioning as possible.  The Euro 7 emission introduction is pushed back.   It really is about the lack of attempts at the Big manufacturers building smaller and lighter vehicles and still making profits.    As it is BMW are partnered with a Chinese Manufacturer for their BEV, that are for the EU and UK.   Not to have them selling cheaper, just built more cheaply and making more profits.  

26 minutes ago, EnterName said:

Interesting how "We're literally boiling the planet!!!" is somehow less of an issue when there are jobs at risk in an election year. 😄

Apparently we are NOT in an existential crisis after all. Who knew, eh?

It's all about keeping the gravy train coming, are we being gaslighted and falling for it? 

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

Maybe the EU and the UK and USA should be just making the personal transport vehicle have to be as Efficient in there manufacturing and their functioning as possible.  The Euro 7 emission introduction is pushed back.   It really is about the lack of attempts at the Big manufacturers building smaller and lighter vehicles and still making profits.    As it is BMW are partnered with a Chinese Manufacturer for their BEV, that are for the EU and UK.   Not to have them selling cheaper, just built more cheaply and making more profits.  

All of these global initiatives are all well and good if we can actually trust our neighbours not to harbour dominance for themselves over the rest of the World. Can we trust the likes of Putin, Jinping or Kim Jong Un not to stab everyone else in the back and hold the World to ransom over the raw ingredients. To say nothing about the various terrorists around the World.

 

UK has gas, oil and electric if we can be bothered to build the means of generation and enhance the grid, but very soon will not have a steel industry because we just too short-sighted to see the benefits of being self-sufficient as much as we possibly can, the same goes for defence.

Edited 11 May, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

24 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

UK has gas, oil and electric if we can be bothered to build the means of generation and enhance the grid, but very soon will not have a steel industry because we just too short-sighted to see the benefits of being self-sufficient as much as we possibly can, the same goes for defence.

leaving the above to one side we don't even have the ability to be self sufficient in feeding ourselves (or clothing ourselves)

Edited 11 May, 20242 yr by Winston_Woof

The UK does have gas, not lots to last for a few generations, and not for the greed of England. Same with Oil & Electricity.

Start generating enough for England and when there needs to be importations for England let customers in England pay extra, and for the cost of nuclear and cleaning up the Nuclear that provided electricity cheap enough for past generations. 

 

Get up your Small Modular Nuclear, the Pylons, the Substations, the Wind Farms and Solar.   

Maybe be a bit more efficient and even less wasteful and polluting. 

There was a vote swung for Brexit by voters in England.  Take back control then.   Spoil your own scenery and countryside and stop expecting the RoUK to do it on your behalf. 

 

Not only is the National Grid not UK owned, neither are the sea ports or shipping.

An island nation that might have cleaner air due to location yet has polluting electricity generating. 

Polluting Petrol Chemical plants, Refineries and Cracking plants. 

Less of those though, and soon no Energy Security, or Transportation Fuel Security.   What a state of a Nation.  England mostly. Lacking natural resources. 

 

PS

Westminster has sold the licences for Exploration and then getting out the oil and gas to anyone and everyone and it is their Oil & Gas to sell.

It is not the UK,s.  Then there is the Sea Bed that is the Crown Estate,s.  So money does come into the UK, to be spent wastefully often. 

Edited 11 May, 20242 yr by Ootohere

When this crisis was first known, probably back in the 1970's

 

If planning permission for all new buildings had insisted upon South facing roofs, solar panels and battery banks we would be self sufficient.

 

 

Yet we still don't do that today

Houses in England have been built to so poor standards and with a lack of insulation before and since the 1970,s.  They still are.

Decades of Billions spent on adverts and insulate home schemes, and 6 or 7 decades on there are homes not insulated from being built in the 50s 60s . 

These poor old people in un-insulated houses were young once, were they ignoring the adverts, grants etc, or was it just lots of these schemes were a con, job creation and wealth creation for directors. 

 

Then Westminster was busy ensuring that the Treasury and England would be sure of the wealth from the North Sea being theirs. 

The greed and lying and cheating is just how they roll. 

 

Edited 11 May, 20242 yr by Ootohere

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

The UK does have gas, not lots to last for a few generations, and not for the greed of England. Same with Oil & Electricity.

Start generating enough for England and when there needs to be importations for England let customers in England pay extra, and for the cost of nuclear and cleaning up the Nuclear that provided electricity cheap enough for past generations. 

 

Get up your Small Modular Nuclear, the Pylons, the Substations, the Wind Farms and Solar.   

Maybe be a bit more efficient and even less wasteful and polluting. 

There was a vote swung for Brexit by voters in England.  Take back control then.   Spoil your own scenery and countryside and stop expecting the RoUK to do it on your behalf. 

 

Not only is the National Grid not UK owned, neither are the sea ports or shipping.

An island nation that might have cleaner air due to location yet has polluting electricity generating. 

Polluting Petrol Chemical plants, Refineries and Cracking plants. 

Less of those though, and soon no Energy Security, or Transportation Fuel Security.   What a state of a Nation.  England mostly. Lacking natural resources. 

 

PS

Westminster has sold the licences for Exploration and then getting out the oil and gas to anyone and everyone and it is their Oil & Gas to sell.

It is not the UK,s.  Then there is the Sea Bed that is the Crown Estate,s.  So money does come into the UK, to be spent wastefully often. 

Exactly Westminster elite are so greedy for money that they have sold off the crown jewels, leaving just the NHS to go. 

 

We need to do take back control then so we actually own these essential services and allow farmers to grow food again. Paying them to do nothing is not an option. The other thing you mentioned was nothing but big fat lies and a smoke screen. The whole of UK is damaged, not just England. 

On 07/05/2024 at 12:15, lol-lol said:

 

Let stop both BS, Burning Stuff and Bull ****..

 

In other good news it has been said that TESLA Berlin is starting to make RHD model Ys. Yippy, should now be soon a grand or two off the RRP !!  

If TESLA would sell Model Ys Standard Range for less than £40k that would be great.  Still prefer Model 3 Highland looks but nice to have choice especially one might be thinking about carrying extended family and their kit ie prams etc.

 

 

Yet more evidence to the contrary, fleet sales are up slightly, private sales are dropping off like flies and the combined figure is far below those for 2023, and the source of the data for both of these claims is...SMMT 🙄

 

 

SMMT data for UK sales year to date for April and year up to end of April 2024.  Change over to BEV, and full Hybrids, has advanced quite slowly in the first third of 2024.

Diesels way down, now less than 7% of the overall market, Petrol down from approximately 57% to 56%, BEV sales up over 10K but as a percentage of sales only taking another 0.3% of the total car market, various reason I think mentioned below, and both PHEV and HEV increasing their share from below 20% to over 21%, steady progress, if not stellar, for the move to electrification   The guy in the video is a known click bait jerk who skews data, yes petrol sales are well up, but down as a percentage of total sales.

 

I would not even say I was disappointed or surprised with the SMMT data.  The start of 2024 had been financial tough for many businesses and for individuals and many EV buyers will be look at the SMMT data and considering what the car companies are going to need to do to hit their 22% mandated threshold for EVs.  Probably sell EVs at cost or below and/or load the cost of buying diesel, petrol and HEVs and PHEVs cars so that buyers look favourably on BEVs to get the new car sellers up to the 22% level.

Some companies have lots of BEVs coming to market in Q3 and Q4 of this year, Dacia and Renault particularly come to mind.  Many of us would like to see the cost of financing come down and hopefully this period of high borrowing costs will start tailing off soon.  Our similar sized economy over the channel ie France, has already far exceeded 22 % EV sales.         

Be interesting to see how the Dacia Spring sells, and Renault 5 EV and even the new MG3 which look a HEV bargain and well quick for the smallish price. 

   

 

You cannot get away from the stats that say 572,791 vehicles sold out of 679,822 have an internal combustion engine. 84% and less than 10% of those need plugging in.

 

There is a way to go to win enough over to a full BEV

Quite possibly not.

But the Manufacturers have to First Register the number of Zero Emission from tailpipe vehicles as of this year and the coming years of they will be penalised on the ICE vehicles sold / first registered so not be selling them.

 

Time will tell.    It is a mess of Government making.  

4 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Quite possibly not.

But the Manufacturers have to First Register the number of Zero Emission from tailpipe vehicles as of this year and the coming years of they will be penalised on the ICE vehicles sold / first registered so not be selling them.

 

Time will tell.    It is a mess of Government making.  

 

They will be penalised on the ICE vehicles sold and add it into future prices If they cannot offset enough by buying credits from other EV manufacturers

We will see what we see.    Que sera sera. 

1 hour ago, Stonekeeper said:

You cannot get away from the stats that say 572,791 vehicles sold out of 679,822 have an internal combustion engine. 84% and less than 10% of those need plugging in.

There is a way to go to win enough over to a full BEV

 

Yes only about one in six new cars are pure EVs and then lust over one in 5 is HEV or PHEV, but as the note says the SMMT are counting Mild hybrids as if they were full petrol.

 

Certainly in this warm weather, whilst the BEVs actually get up to, and even beyond, the advertised range those Mild hybrid, HEV and PHEV are also doing significant parts of their journey in EV mode, as a video I posted above of a Clio etech it is doing most of its journey in EV mode.  Its little 39 litre tank it occasional sips from, in combination with the electric propulsion will take the vehicle 500 to 600 miles on that little fuel tank.

 

Britain is being a bit of a laggard in the conversion to EV vehicles compared to most other European countries as well as China and many Asian countries and  there are some excuses for that ie wanting RHD cars which come to market later than LHD ones for example.  The move to EVs is expected to drop oil demand by 5M barrels a day, good for air pollution but possibly bad for some oil producers as Saudi can make a profit at something like $20 a barrel, the UK and many other oil producers require the price to be at least 3 times that.

 

Personally very excited about what deals will be on offer on BEVs so that manufacturers hit their 22% mandate.  In this warm whether enjoying my MHEV doing mid sixties mpg, Clio etech is doing mid seventies mpg at the moment and BEV is easily capable of over 200 miles.  Likely to be spoilt for choice for the September Reg, even cheaper TESLAs, super deals on Renault 5 or Megane e.  Just a same we only get part of the ranges of cars as manufacturers do not think it worth to do the full range for Ireland and UK. Is what it is. Exciting times we live in.         

 

@lol-lol, I can't see how he can skew figures, he can only present the figures as they are reported and he shows his sources on the video.

The industry will do what ever necessary to maintain it's profits. if it means pre-registering BEVs to meet the numbers, they will do that if it's cheaper to sell them with a discount to reduce the number of fines.

 

 

Whatever way it's done the costs will be passed on to the Public somewhere

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Yes only about one in six new cars are pure EVs and then lust over one in 5 is HEV or PHEV, but as the note says the SMMT are counting Mild hybrids as if they were full petrol.

 

Certainly in this warm weather, whilst the BEVs actually get up to, and even beyond, the advertised range those Mild hybrid, HEV and PHEV are also  (1) doing significant parts of their journey in EV mode, as a video I posted above of a Clio etech it is doing most of its journey in EV mode.  Its little 39 litre tank it occasional sips from, in combination with the electric propulsion will take the vehicle 500 to 600 miles on that little fuel tank.

 

Britain is being a bit of a laggard in the conversion to EV vehicles compared to most other European countries as well as China and many Asian countries and  there are some excuses for that ie wanting RHD cars which come to market later than LHD ones for example.  The move to EVs is expected to drop oil demand by 5M barrels a day, good for air pollution but possibly bad for some oil producers as Saudi can make a profit at something like $20 a barrel, the (2) UK and many other oil producers require the price to be at least 3 times that.

 

Personally very excited about what deals will be on offer on BEVs so that manufacturers hit their 22% mandate.  In this warm whether enjoying my MHEV doing mid sixties mpg, Clio etech is doing mid seventies mpg at the moment and BEV is easily capable of over 200 miles.  Likely to be spoilt for choice for the September Reg, even cheaper TESLAs, super deals on Renault 5 or Megane e.  Just a same we only get part of the ranges of cars as manufacturers do not think it worth to do the full range for Ireland and UK. Is what it is. Exciting times we live in.         

 

 

1. That is why i don't understand why the target wasn't reducing the number of ICE sold to a percentage. Rather than increasing pure ev

 

The industry could probably get pure ICE vehicle sales down to 10% very quickly using MhEV and Phev, if the government hadn't included them in the ban too, and would have reduced the Nations emissions sooner.

The way they are doing it people will hang on to old cars longer.

 

2. The UK will probably make a big claim of being Carbon fuel producing neutral when that happens and continue to import.

@Stonekeeper Exactly.  Nail on he\d.

 

Knock £10,000 of them. Give them out on much cheapness to Emergency Services, Local Authorities etc etc. 

 

But that can only go on so long and then Used vehicles values drop like a stone.

 

The Manufacturers like VW Group as 'BANKERS.  Financial Establishments selling finance, buying their own products and leasing.them.

Dealerships and the Motor Trade require the turn over and making money on cars 2 or 3 times in their life.

 

Time will tell. 

Edited 12 May, 20242 yr by Ootohere

Whilst new cars have been in short supply they have been able to get away with the notion that you can buy half a car, paying over four years then expect someone else to buy the other half.

 

That will not hold water for much longer.

 

The GFV's of cars in agreements are soon going to reflect the true depreciation as the Battery tech improves.

 

They talk of "lifetime as 10 year 100,000 miles".

 

We still have many cars on the road pre 2014 are the new Cars not that good. Or are Cars going to have to be Reborn after ten years because of the powertrain.

 

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

 

 

Britain is being a bit of a laggard in the conversion to EV vehicles compared to most other European countries as well as China and many Asian countries 

 

 

 

Just as well we (in the UK) haven't got a (mass)  car industry that would be adversely impacted by trying (and failing)  to hit the artificial targets set by the Government in regards to zero emission  vehicles (not Electric Vehicles).......................................

"China has become the world’s largest producer of electric vehicles (EVs) in a short space of time and, while its footprint in Europe is only small at the moment, its vast pace of growth and ability to scale up quickly means Chinese EVs will become a much more familiar sight on our roads in future.

It’s expected that 10 new Chinese brands will launch in the UK by the end of the decade, offering an wider choice of vehicles to fleet managers and company car drivers."

 

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/features/chinese-car-brands-set-to-take-the-uk-fleet-market-by-storm

There are tariffs coming on the vehicles / materials from outwith the EU / UK. 

Loads of cheap BEV,s from China, France or Romania are all good for some.  

Many will not want them.  Like those on here not getting any kind of BEV.

Not that many have even 20 years driving careers left anyway.  THey might never want to be in a BEV, but their last journey might be in the back of one. 

 

 

There is no issue for those that want to run diesels 10 years old and more. Just maybe do not go into low emission zones.

Millions of cars on the roads can stay as long as people want them.

There are less than 1 million BEV,s on the roads in the UK and there will be more year on year and some will be getting scrapped / crashed.

 

Those that own the vehicles currently leased are the people that need to get money in.

These Financial Institutions have pension fund money in them and people savings money as well, as do the car manufacturers and parts manufacturers.

 

If the Labour Party are in power they can not organise a pith up in a brewery and bettery than the bunch in power can now.

 

There will be winters of discontent, and car manufacturers left in the UK with employees striking. & transport / trains as they are now or worse.

It looks like we are going back to the 70,e soon enough. 

Maybe even an oil crisis.   

Get on your bikes. 

Edited 12 May, 20242 yr by Ootohere

29 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

@lol-lol, I can't see how he can skew figures, he can only present the figures as they are reported and he shows his sources on the video.

 

The chap just seems to be reading The Times article.  The Times does not come across to me as particularly knowledge or indeed analytically good.

24% BEV was an over optimistic prediction by anyone for 2024 unless manufacturers passed on the price drop of Lithium and LiFEP04 battery cells which they probably cannot as it is the battery producers ie BYD, CATL or are enjoying the much lower lithium prices and selling the batteries, along with LG, Panasonic and others and making better margins as the car companies probably had contracts on price for months or even a year or so ahead.

 

The figures do speak for themselves, BEVs inched up another percent in the overall, MEVs and PHEVs did well.  SMMT stats do not split out MHEVs like my Arkana, which barrels along the road in coast mode with the ICE off and the hybrid system powering the car's steering, lights etc.  Not using any fuel, largish C segment car turning in consumption of about 4.5 litres ie a gallon for every 100 km ie 62 miles, cracking due to it MHEV system and apart from the good mpg it gives me a tenner off car tax, good news, but it appears in the stats with full non, not even mild hybrid. Aim is to significantly reduce the burning of oil which BEV, HEV, PHEVs and some petrol cars which are MHEV, probably quite a significant percent I would reckon are, and in diesel with a bit of MHEV too. Oil receipts are £0.3B down, over 1% down which means pollution is down to, despite the UK's increase in population.

 

Heading the right way slowly and cheaper electricity in combination with more expensive fuel, currently circa £1.50 a litre I see, will continue to drive the conversion over to EV, full or partial driven cars, as people realize just how much cheaper using an EV is.   

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hmrc-tax-and-nics-receipts-for-the-uk/hmrc-tax-receipts-and-national-insurance-contributions-for-the-uk-new-monthly-bulletin#hydrocarbon-oil-fuel-duty

Hydrocarbon Oil (fuel duty)

Hydrocarbon Oils receipts for April 2023 to March 2024 are £24.8 billion, which is £0.3 billion lower than the same period last year.

  

 

 

 

     

58 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Personally very excited about what deals will be on offer on BEVs so that manufacturers hit their 22% mandate.  In this warm whether enjoying my MHEV doing mid sixties mpg,

I actually cannot see how a MHEV can be beneficial, they are not capable of being driven for any distance whatsoever under battery power, the motive power always comes from the ICE part of the car. The only advantage that a MHEV can offer is that can allow for increases use of stop/start system when the car is stationary in traffic as the special generator/starter can send 12V from the generator to a Lithium-ion battery when regen is employed to allow the Lithium-ion battery to power the starter rather than the normal LA battery, thus the S/S system is more likely to kick more often than the S/S on a normal ICE car. 

 

Stop/Start system only normally come into their own in city traffic, so on a decent run, such as I did today, Chelmsford to Old Warden Airfield, the car was not stationary once until I arrived and parked up, thus if my car was a MEHV, today it would have been no better than a pure ICE. In reality, for the most part they are ICE  and only help slightly in city traffic with loads of time spend stationary.

 

Incidently, I achieved 60mpg today and I was not crawling along trying to hypermile at all, I was doing the national speed limit where ever possible, otherwise, I was doing the posted speed limit where indicated of 20/30 or 40mph as posted.

 

All your questions answered

HOW IS A MILD HYBRID DIFFERENT TO A STANDARD OR PLUG-IN HYBRID?

 

CAN A MILD HYBRID VEHICLE DRIVE ON ELECTRIC POWER ONLY?

No. The power to move the vehicle comes from the internal combustion engine.

 

WHAT ARE THE COMPONENTS IN A MILD HYBRID POWERTRAIN AND HOW DO THEY WORK?

Nissan's Mild Hybrid powertrain consists of a 12v Lithium-Ion battery to provide additional power while the engine is stopped. This is connected to a Belt Driven Starter Generator, allowing for two way power transfer between the engine and battery.

As a result the frequency of the start/stop system is improved, engine stop durations are longer and the ability to stop the engine before the vehicle comes to a complete stop (Xtronic only).

 

WHAT IS THE WARRANTY PERIOD FOR THE MILD HYBRID COMPONENTS?

Edited 12 May, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher