1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

WTF, even my 2 litre diesel only emits 119 gm/km and you're only talking of 1.6 litre engine.

 

Only current VAG wiesel car of this sort of format is the wonderful SEAT Tarraco, so good VAG do not even bother to sell in the UK from I have seen but it was put to VCA for cetification.   According to VCA the 2 litre 110 Kw engine ie 150 hp CR wiesel engine gave CO2 figures of 142 or 144 gm Co2 depending on the model.

MPG average of 54.

What is the point of such a car unless you are towing ???/

 

 

2 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Regarding MHEV driving on electric power. It can move short distance at low speed on electric. That's how they get better fuel economy than pure ICE vehicles and that's why all new vehicles really should have this magical addon to help reduce fuel consumption.

 

The manufacturer's response is actually saying where the power comes from. 100% of it comes from ICE burning fossil fuel. It is not saying the vehicle is incapable of moving on battery power.

On this point, I have to disagree with you all until you can produce actual hard evidence to the contrary. I have had a mild hybrid Nissan Qashqai for a couple of months, only had about 700 miles on the clock, and that could not and did not move at all under electric mode. What they do, do is, provided there is power stored in the battery, greatly enhance the acceleration on pull away, and that enhancement is very pronounced between a car that has been driven long enough to have built some charge and a car that has just depleted the stored energy after a couple of snappy accelerations when the snappiness disappears because the power has been used up and needs some regen to build the capacity again. 

 

This is the difference between a mild hybrid and a full hybrid, mild has a smaller battery and motor and uses regen to charge battery, then uses that stored energy on acceleration, similar to a F1 car with KERS. A full hybrid has a bigger battery and is capable of powering the car on its own upto a certain level and then beyond that level the engine kicks in to provide electric power to the motor and also recharges the battery, as soon as speed, battery charge level etc are right, the engine stops and the battery alone powers the car. 

27 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Only current VAG wiesel car of this sort of format is the wonderful SEAT Tarraco, so good VAG do not even bother to sell in the UK from I have seen but it was put to VCA for cetification.   According to VCA the 2 litre 110 Kw engine ie 150 hp CR wiesel engine gave CO2 figures of 142 or 144 gm Co2 depending on the model.

MPG average of 54.

What is the point of such a car unless you are towing ???/

 

 

Well in the words of Peter Stefanovic, imagine his surprise when he learns that the car is sold here in the UK. Here is UK link Meet our large SUV, the SEAT Tarraco | SEAT prices start at £33,450 and its their version of the Skoda Kodiak and the VW Tiguan. 

Edited 13 May, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

19 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Well in the words of Peter Stefanovic, imagine his surprise when he learns that the car is sold here in the UK. Here is UK link Meet our large SUV, the SEAT Tarraco | SEAT prices start at £33,450 and its their version of the Skoda Kodiak and the VW Tiguan. 

 

Cannot remember ever seeing one and I car that fugly would stand out. 

One in 5,000 UK registered cars is a Tarraco, wow.  

I will look out for them, see if better or worse in the flesh.  Looks like they sold 50-ish in 2022 and 2023....

https://www.howrareismycar.co.uk/seat/tarraco/

 

 

42 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

On this point, I have to disagree with you all until you can produce actual hard evidence to the contrary. I have had a mild hybrid Nissan Qashqai for a couple of months, only had about 700 miles on the clock, and that could not and did not move at all under electric mode. What they do, do is, provided there is power stored in the battery, greatly enhance the acceleration on pull away, and that enhancement is very pronounced between a car that has been driven long enough to have built some charge and a car that has just depleted the stored energy after a couple of snappy accelerations when the snappiness disappears because the power has been used up and needs some regen to build the capacity again. 

 

This is the difference between a mild hybrid and a full hybrid, mild has a smaller battery and motor and uses regen to charge battery, then uses that stored energy on acceleration, similar to a F1 car with KERS. A full hybrid has a bigger battery and is capable of powering the car on its own upto a certain level and then beyond that level the engine kicks in to provide electric power to the motor and also recharges the battery, as soon as speed, battery charge level etc are right, the engine stops and the battery alone powers the car. 

Ah yes. You are right. I confused mild with full hybrid. I was thinking of full hybrid.

 

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

Petrol cars get their engines up to temperature quicker as we know.

 

Not true in terms of combustion and hence emissions, petrol engine have to run an enriched mixture for several miles after a cold start whereas a diesel engine runs a normal stochiometric ratio as soon as compression ignition is sustained without glowplug intervention, a few seconds in most cases, its why diesels will always beat the pants of petrol engines for economy on short cold start urban journeys which are very bad for the planet using either fuel.

 

"As we know".......... some know different, its definitely true that a diesel engine which has far less thermal losses will take longer to get warmth from the heater but even that is massively better since the VAG sliding sleeve water pumps and auxiliary coolant circuits, on the coldest of days I could drive 8 miles in my MK1 Octavia and only get full heat and normal operating temperature after giving it the beans up a hill, the Yeti its about 2 miles and is putting out significant heat after 1 mile.

 

Yes emissions will be higher until the Cat and/or DPF reach operating temperature but I doubt there is any significant difference between the fuels in that regard and the emissions system on the petrol engine cannot operate until the cold start enrichment has ceased and the engine is running at Lambda 1.

 

Your EV's have no such problems and are as clean on a 25m drive as on a 250km one.

13 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Agreed, but if you explore the link I posted to Renault Arkana MHEV, you will see a completely different mode of operating to what you say yours does. The MHEV does even exist in the 2024 model line up, only offers E-Tech full hybrid. Renault Arkana E-Tech full hybrid - 5-seater sport SUV seems to describe how yours is behaving, looking very much like a full hybrid. You'll need to scroll down a few pages and you will find an animated graphic with the power coming from either the battery to the motor, or from the ICE to the battery and then to the motor.

 

Nissan juke hybrid

 

 

@J.R.  In this real world of TDI,s and TSI,s now & Euro 6 on an ambient of 0*oC it might be 6 miles or more before the coolant gets to an Indicated 90*oC and another 15 miles until the engine oil is at an indicated 90*oC or so.   & do less miles or just that and stop, and do a return journey from a cold start and crap efficency.

Now with the TSI,s with Cat & GPF it can be a whole different kettle or worms or can of fish getting the coolant ad engine oil up to temperature and an efficient running engine.

Then there is the MIld Hybrids with the ICE running and the take off from the start on the battery.

PHEV,s might do the 20 miles and the engine never start until it is time for the return journey and the ICE might fire up and be efficient enough. 

 

Diesels as they are now are not really cold start, short hop stop and start runners and efficient fuel or emission wise. 

If they were then the manufacturers could have carried on punting them for City Cars, for around town delivery vehicles. 

 

VW / Audi were going with Diesel Hybrids and Audi have them.

That was what the Endurance Racing Diesel Hybrids were all about, and the factories built to build the Diesel Hybrids.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 13 May, 20242 yr by Ootohere

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

 

Not true in terms of combustion and hence emissions, petrol engine have to run an enriched mixture for several miles after a cold start whereas a diesel engine runs a normal stochiometric ratio as soon as compression ignition is sustained without glowplug intervention, a few seconds in most cases, its why diesels will always beat the pants of petrol engines for economy on short cold start urban journeys which are very bad for the planet using either fuel.

 

"As we know".......... some know different, its definitely true that a diesel engine which has far less thermal losses will take longer to get warmth from the heater but even that is massively better since the VAG sliding sleeve water pumps and auxiliary coolant circuits, on the coldest of days I could drive 8 miles in my MK1 Octavia and only get full heat and normal operating temperature after giving it the beans up a hill, the Yeti its about 2 miles and is putting out significant heat after 1 mile.

 

Yes emissions will be higher until the Cat and/or DPF reach operating temperature but I doubt there is any significant difference between the fuels in that regard and the emissions system on the petrol engine cannot operate until the cold start enrichment has ceased and the engine is running at Lambda 1.

 

Your EV's have no such problems and are as clean on a 25m drive as on a 250km one.

This is one of the reasons why I used to have to go into the bus depot earlier on freezing days to get the buses running for a while before passengers were allowed on them. The engines, once started run perfectly fine and smooth, not lumpy like the gas or petrol engine does until they are warm enough to run without the enriched mixture.

 

Because diesels also run cooler, it was common practise to run buses for a while in the workshop after a rebuild without any cooling fluid in them, because it used to take so long to fill them and bleed the system as they heaters on the top decks and the engines were on the lower deck, that you did not want to have to fill, bleed and then drain it all down again if the engine still had problems.

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

This is one of the reasons why I used to have to go into the bus depot earlier on freezing days to get the buses running for a while before passengers were allowed on them. The engines, once started run perfectly fine and smooth, not lumpy like the gas or petrol engine does until they are warm enough to run without the enriched mixture.

 

Because diesels also run cooler, it was common practise to run buses for a while in the workshop after a rebuild without any cooling fluid in them, because it used to take so long to fill them and bleed the system as they heaters on the top decks and the engines were on the lower deck, that you did not want to have to fill, bleed and then drain it all down again if the engine still had problems.

Luxury.

When I worked at Cardiff Bus we had to start our own busses and just bloody freeze lol

6 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

Luxury.

When I worked at Cardiff Bus we had to start our own busses and just bloody freeze lol

Haha, this was back in the 60s early 70s when they were run properly and were nationalised. 

28 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Haha, this was back in the 60s early 70s when they were run properly and were nationalised. 

Cardiff Bus has been 100% owned and run directly by Cardiff Council from 1902 right to the present day.

The arrowed are the sort of ones I drove in the mid to late 90's

EDIT L-R Leyland Lynx, Optare Metrorider , Volvo Aisla (front engined and kin hot in the summer)

Edited 13 May, 20242 yr by Winston_Woof

I never fill with coolant before initial running of a rebuilt engine petrol or diesel.

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/05/13/ethiopia-shows-us-just-how-fast-the-transition-to-electric-mobility-can-happen-in-africa/

Quote

So, in just 2 years, locally assembled EVs and imported EVs have added almost 10% of Ethiopia’s current total ICE vehicle registrations!

 

10% of all cars in Ethiopia is now an EV. I think the previously mentioned ICE ban was only a few months ago. So people were buying EV's before the ban came in.

 

When the economic works, people will adopt themselves. UK could do with public information campaign on EV home charging cheapness.

4 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

UK could do with public information campaign on EV home charging cheapness.

... and rationalisation of public charger networks (so you don't need multiple cards/apps), as well as better maintenance of public chargers - see regular posts by @Ootohere of chargers not working or hogged by long-term parkers.

7 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

... and rationalisation of public charger networks (so you don't need multiple cards/apps), as well as better maintenance of public chargers - see regular posts by @Ootohere of chargers not working or hogged by long-term parkers.

Indeed, perhaps also a public information campaign on difference between en-route rapid charging and AC destination charging.

 

There's a lot of low hanging fruit, easy-win right now. People with driveway can charge at home but not getting EV's.

The Public Charger issue might be worse in Scotland than in RoUk due to SWARCO / Charge Place Scotland and maintenance of some of the 32 local authorities chargers and the Administration of Charge Place Scotland run by SWARCO. 

Also BP Pulse Chargers and their maintenance of chargers on their network and as part of CPS / Local Authorities. 

 

PS

I am about to call CPS yet again to see why my e-mails are ignored other than an auto reply that they will look at them in 48 hours.

2 weeks and no call or e-mail contact from them.  I want a payment refunded that should never have been taken.

 

PPS

Got through quick on phone today.

Supposedly will be sorted out. They have caught up with the cluster **** that had people locked out of accounts, info lost, over charges etc. 

Edited 14 May, 20242 yr by Ootohere

I called CPS on 3 May, got refund through on 9th. Then yesterday, someone finally looked at my Email that was sent on 25th. The Email didn't quote my later Email, so I guess their system just looks at one Email at a time, chasing Emails are looked at separately, wasting more time. 

 

 

Down here, London and surround area, public charging infrastructure is not so bad. Hubs appearing everywhere: a Osprey hub just 5min away from my parents in Welwyn Garden City. There's also a huge Gridserve hub being constructed at the A1M Stevenage junction. Luton now has 16 Tesla V4 open-to-all. South Mimm service now have 60+ DC rapid chargers. 

 

I can keep just 25 miles in my MY (10%) and drive in any direction able to reliably quickly charge up. IF emergency happened after draining the battery earlier in the day. It's not too dissimilar to unplanned emergency in ICE car. Of course, difference is in the morning there will be more than enough charge to not need using public infrastructure. 

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/05/13/ethiopia-shows-us-just-how-fast-the-transition-to-electric-mobility-can-happen-in-africa/

 

10% of all cars in Ethiopia is now an EV. I think the previously mentioned ICE ban was only a few months ago. So people were buying EV's before the ban came in.

 

When the economic works, people will adopt themselves. UK could do with public information campaign on EV home charging cheapness.

Going by what I have learned about the vast majority of the vehicles on the road / dirt tracks in Ethiopia and people's standard of living, I have trouble in believing this claim. They even have trouble in providing even the basics like a reasonable railway.

Edited 14 May, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

There's a lot of low hanging fruit, easy-win right now. People with driveway can charge at home but not getting EV's.

There needs to be some serious thinking about why this is the case and there are many reasons.

There is more help being offered to get people in EV,s in the USA in the way of tax credits.  But for EV,s assembled in the USA.

43 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Going by what I have learned about the vast majority of the vehicles on the road / dirt tracks in Ethiopia and people's standard of living, I have trouble in believing this claim. They even have trouble in providing even the basics like a reasonable railway.

If you think of cars as luxury items rather than necessity for getting about, it would make sense.

There wasn't large amount of cars to begin with. So with much lower running cost combined with sort of people able to afford cars, thus having space for private charging, it makes perfect sense. 

 

Ultimately, UK need to abolish the idea that reducing cars != less people. Getting about != driving. I'm saddened to read Oxford's anti-misinformation statements and  similar misinformation statements people came up with for ULEZ (more recently London Mayor election): 

https://www.oxford.gov.uk/news/article/881/joint-statement-from-oxfordshire-county-council-and-oxford-city-council-on-oxford-s-traffic-filters

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

I called CPS on 3 May, got refund through on 9th. Then yesterday, someone finally looked at my Email that was sent on 25th. The Email didn't quote my later Email, so I guess their system just looks at one Email at a time, chasing Emails are looked at separately, wasting more time. 

 

 

Down here, London and surround area, public charging infrastructure is not so bad. Hubs appearing everywhere: a Osprey hub just 5min away from my parents in Welwyn Garden City. There's also a huge Gridserve hub being constructed at the A1M Stevenage junction. Luton now has 16 Tesla V4 open-to-all. South Mimm service now have 60+ DC rapid chargers. 

 

I can keep just 25 miles in my MY (10%) and drive in any direction able to reliably quickly charge up. IF emergency happened after draining the battery earlier in the day. It's not too dissimilar to unplanned emergency in ICE car. Of course, difference is in the morning there will be more than enough charge to not need using public infrastructure. 

I'm not surprised about the charging infrastructure in London and some of the surrounding areas, as that is the place that has the highest density of people in England  and the areas with the best support also happen to be where many of the monied people live, which is the main reason.

 

As to keeping 25 miles in your MY so you can drive any direction to be able to quickly charge up, whatever happened to your home charging on your driveway then?

 

There is a wealth of difference between being able to drive a few miles to a suitable charger for the unplanned emergency, in order to top up the battery so you can complete the emergency trip is nothing like doing the same thing in an ICE. I have the choice of around 15 service stations within a 3-mile radius of me and each one has a minimum of 8 pumps, discharging at least 2 grades of petrol and 1 maybe 2 grades of diesel. So that makes 120 pumps at my disposal, many of which are open 24 hours, meaning that on average, they have the potential to fill 1,440 ICE vehicles every hour to the brim if ever required to.

 

That means if ever (not very likely, I grant you) I was called upon, like last night to do a 200 mile round trip to pick etc a family member, I could easily brim my tank and be on my way within minutes, and the same would certainly true for you if you had an ICE car, no need to drive further to a charger then waiting to stick 200 miles of power in the battery (assuming the charger was free and was of the right type and working) then that must also become one of the reasons why some folk don't buy EVs even when they clearly could be charging at home and taking advantage (for now at least) of the lower charging and running costs.

Edited 14 May, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

We have that.    It is the damn obvious thing. 

 

Filling up at filling stations is easy.