47 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

My parents have rejected the Kona because of a fault within the car's traditional braking system, master brake cylinder had to be changed. The 12v battery is also not original, strange for a 2 year old car, feels like a lemon or not been looked after by previous Motability owner. 

 

Now they've put down deposit for a Megane e-tech 60 kWh techno mid level spec (no heat pump), I think it's the same battery as yours. 1 year old 8k miles car for £21k from main dealer seems a very good deal. Only £1k more for Ionic top level spec with upgraded stereo, 360 camera and heat pump, but unfortunately they can't get over the ugly yellow teeth appearance for Ionic spec. 

 

I saw you mention heat pump previously. Would non-inclusion affect battery thermal management?

Have you got any reading material for Renault's Scenic/Megane heat pump system? 

Do you use any OBD scanner for reading the car? Car Scanner app doesn't report anything from BMS. 

 

Test drove the Megane etech, 220 hp UK spec, and decided not for me.  The Arkana was about £10K cheaper and like now I still am only getting a petrol fuel card although Eon aer linke up with my new company and one can "buy" cheapish lecky at some of our DCs.   Quickish car but not sure it felt like 220 hp.  People far too easily compare HP rather than Torque, and the flatness of the torque curve, which I think is more important.

 

Scenic has a slightly updated LG Chem battery back over the first Meganes, maybe the Megane have the same pack now ie 3% higher energy density.

Sometime one sees the range quoted as 267 miles rather than 261 miles. As I mentioned on here a few weeks ago the ability of the car to go 11 miles beyond zero miles range quoted before it comes up with even "performance restricted" warning makes one wonder just how far it would go before slowing to a crawl, 15 miles, 20 miles beyond zero ?

 

One big reason I chose the Scenic over the Megane was the enormously more rear cabin space. My offspring are quite tall and eldest daughter's family absolute giants.  Daughter's bloke is 6'4', his brother is 6'10 but we seem to average around 6 foot as a family with some more. Even at 6'1" I have the seat right back to the stoppers.  Downside is wheel spin as longer wheel base and FWD means not 60/40 but more like 56/44 weight distribution which is even worse on the big battery ie more like 55/45.   Also Renault for the Scenic were doing red as there free colour, cheapish finance and a free £1k wall box, happy days, about £34K for a £37.5K car.  Some cracking deals on the Megane etech nominal 60 kWh and now a bit over shadowed by CoTY 2024 Scenic, some may even be drawn down to the CoTY 2025 R5/A290 so the Megane gets a bit over shadowed from both directions which is a shame as it does have a niche.  Would like to see Renault bring the 40 kWh, nominal LFP version but like most European car manufacturers the UK only get a fraction of the full European range.  Very much missed the 1.8 TSIs being withdrawn from the Skoda range, best engine in the petrol range IMO, loved my L&K 1.8 TSI Octavia. If that was 160 hp I am a Dutchman, not much slower than my 2 litre VRS Octavia but better on gas and revved to 7k, much fun and missed.   

 

In winter Scenic is pretty hit by the cold ie maybe a third down on summer reported range.  without a heat pump that might be more like 45% I gather. But like I said, loads of tricks to help the range.  Just wish I had a big double garage or the like to keep it toastie, or battery pre-heating I could programme in. Also cheap lecky to 7 am rather than 0530 would be nice too !!  

 

Edited 17 February, 20251 yr by lol-lol

The Megane is about same size as Kona: compact and easy to park. 

 

They will only use the car for getting about locally, charged at home. Long trips in my Tesla MY, a lot less affected by winter, only 20% reduction in efficiency. Even 39 kWh Kona has more than enough range. 60 kWh Megane will be plenty. I calculate 150 miles in worst case winter with some built-in degradation (2.8 mi/kWh * 55 kWh usable). So they'll simply keep the battery in the 40-70% range, just plug in, car and Intelligent Octopus manages the rest, super easy, very convenient and cheap. 

 

Just by having an EV also dropped their electricity bill thanks to the cheap overnight hours and not noticeable increase in day time unit cost. 

 

 

The Kona feels like a Leaf 3.0, it has slightly upgraded everything but ultimately it drives similar to ICE vehicle with a traditional manufacturer system. 

The Megane feels like a proper EV, there's great Google system, it tells you arrival estimated SoC and routes through rapid chargers. The car is built on fully revised EV platform with proper flat footwell. 

 

Really shame about the yellow bits for top spec, they can't get over how ugly it looks. But I feel it's the spec to go for  (heat pump, 360 camera, upgraded stereo). However it's not my money. 

They look ok.  The wheels might not look good as time goes by and they are shod with pretty ridiculous tyres on this one.

Edited 17 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

The top spec has this ugly yellow "accents" front and back. 

New & Used Cars for Sale - Auto Trader UK

 

The one you photoed is pretty much the one they will buy, although I think there's 2 shades of very similar colour. It's Techno spec mid level out of 3 levels. It has got the Google system and wheels upgrade (I agree rims are unnecessarily big) and everything else except the 3 things I listed earlier for top spec. 

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

The top spec has this ugly yellow "accents" front and back. 

New & Used Cars for Sale - Auto Trader UK

 

The one you photoed is pretty much the one they will buy, although I think there's 2 shades of very similar colour. It's Techno spec mid level out of 3 levels. It has got the Google system and wheels upgrade (I agree rims are unnecessarily big) and everything else except the 3 things I listed earlier for top spec. 

 

I think they are suppose to look like gold !

 

Did not like that feature at all so was glad to see not on the Scenic which is fundamentally LWB Megane.

 

I thought first you meant yellow piping in the car which did surprise me with the Scenic thought it sort of works better with the red paint than some of the other body colours.

 

With the Megane I thought the body versus glass area looked a bit wrong but that is personal choice.

 

The Google and screens are great, stalks maybe too much. With the gear selector on a stalk, indicators, wipers, audio and regen down and up means 6 stalks !!

 

Edited 17 February, 20251 yr by lol-lol

Holy smoke, that front Trawl Doors look totally crap IMO. 

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

The top spec has this ugly yellow "accents" front and back. 

New & Used Cars for Sale - Auto Trader UK

 

The one you photoed is pretty much the one they will buy, although I think there's 2 shades of very similar colour. It's Techno spec mid level out of 3 levels. It has got the Google system and wheels upgrade (I agree rims are unnecessarily big) and everything else except the 3 things I listed earlier for top spec. 

 

Top spec Scenic, the Ionic, has the photochromic sun roof. £2K and Scenic owners say it is pointless in the UK winter as it is dark anyways.

 

Nicer stereo, seat, maybe.

 

All 3 of the Scenic big batteries need their prices tweaking downwards as the Expensive Car Supplement will make buyers think twice.

 

Techno model I can see dropping from £41k to £38k. Alpine to a pound under £40k and Iconic above maybe with even more toys.

 

Lots of cars in the 40 to 45k bracket to magically drop below 40k, maybe minus some toys to get the price down.

 

Very interesting to see an electric car embarrassed for performance also ultimately rejected in favour of a ICE car.

 

 

No worries about who some might consider as a pensioner crashing into stuff in supermarket car parks with that sort of performance. 

Nope, instant torque is not there with ICE.

29 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Very interesting to see an electric car embarrassed for performance also ultimately rejected in favour of a ICE car.

 

 

 

🤣

 

 

 

10 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Nope, instant torque is not there with ICE.

Instant torque has been tuned out in many non-performance EV's default modes. Out of 5 EV's from legacy manufacturer I've driven, 4 of which have slow throttle response, only EV6 have some level of responsiveness. Of course, some of them can be tuned to have slightly faster response by selecting sport mode. But I don't think a granny will drive about in sport mode. 

 

In Tesla, PM motors also have slower response than AC motors. This is why PM motor only RWD models are slower than AWD models. Please correct me if wrong, I think the M3 in the video was a RWD? Also, all Tesla can be tuned down by selecting Chill mode. 

 

The real danger is use of wrong pedal. This danger is present in any car, bigger with more driven power and higher risk the older the individual. 

 

 

Very interesting to see you, once again, embarrassed for your baseless anti-EV comment.  

We found the Megane to be claustrophobic when we tried one, due to the high waistline, stupidly small rear window and acres of black plastic. I think the dark seats and roof lining didn't help. The interior felt cheap for such an expensive car. The boot was not a very good shape for a dog, getting a lot of its volume from height rather than length. I can imagine lifting heavy stuff out of the boot could be a challenge.

The short length is what my parents wanted. A small compact car. Megane looks like a normal car but it is actually same size as Kona (first gen). 

 

I agree the back feels claustrophobic and boot is waaaaaay too deep. The first isn't much problem because they won't usually have rear passenger. My old man has DIY hobby, plans to build a frame to lift up the boot floor when summer comes around. It's got enough boot surface for their weekly shopping. 

 

Overall material quality, it feels much better than Kona for sure. At about 60% of official OTR price just 1 year old, it seems like okay price. Similar condition older Kona 64 kWh are asking more. Of course brand new price is ludicrous, no one in their right mind will pay over £35k for a compact car.

 

 

Oh wait.. looks like ICE cars are not cheap either... >£35k for Polo's.  (for EV are too expensive crowd) 

 

Edited 18 February, 20251 yr by wyx087

On 13/02/2025 at 11:34, Dieselgate said:

Salary sacrifice scheme seems to be up and running at work now.

Looking at the various options I think the ID7 is probably going to be slightly beyond my budget unfortunately though it's actually a lot closer than I expected.

Cupra Born looks fairly attractive but the Ford Explorer looks much better value at only slightly more expensive.

Does anyone have any experience or comments to make on it?

The Ford Explorer is a Skoda Enyaq / VW ID4/5 / Audi Q4 in different clothing. I'm on my 2nd Enyaq, best car I have ever owned

On 17/02/2025 at 12:00, wyx087 said:

The top spec has this ugly yellow "accents" front and back. 

New & Used Cars for Sale - Auto Trader UK

 

 

Blimey - that's hideous!

 

I hope Renault quality has improved significantly since the days of the Laguna that my FIL had...

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Of course brand new price is ludicrous, no one in their right mind will pay over £35k for a compact car.

 

Oh wait.. looks like ICE cars are not cheap either... >£35k for Polo's.  (for EV are too expensive crowd) 

 

 

Agreed!

 

Polo GTI's a re a bit 'niche' though - you'd be better off comparing prices of a non-GTI...

34 minutes ago, domhnall said:

The Ford Explorer is a Skoda Enyaq / VW ID4/5 / Audi Q4 in different clothing. I'm on my 2nd Enyaq, best car I have ever owned

That's why I'm on my 5th Superb. 

9 minutes ago, skomaz said:

Agreed!

 

Polo GTI's a re a bit 'niche' though - you'd be better off comparing prices of a non-GTI...

Good point, I had just selected decending price, I had not looked at trim levels. 

 

Removing GTI shows 30k for "R-line", the top spec? 

Search available stock | Volkswagen UK

Remove R-line price is up to 27k. 

 

Ford Puma (Fiasta replacement) is not cheap either: 

26k to 34k. (34k is for the niche model) 

Ford Puma offers & promotions | Ford UK

 

People say EV are expensive obviously haven't priced up cars in general lately. 

On my phone the bumff about the Next restyled Corsa popped up.

It is getting so that you need to look to see if there is an article in  Autocar incase it is some AI generated stuff, even then you can not be sure.

39 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

That's why I'm on my 5th Superb. 

One of the best cars I've ever travelled in.

6 minutes ago, Paws4Thot said:

One of the best cars I've ever travelled in.

For sheer comfort of ride, Citroën DS   or a Jaguar XJ6 take a lot of beating IMO.

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Good point, I had just selected decending price, I had not looked at trim levels. 

 

Removing GTI shows 30k for "R-line", the top spec? 

Search available stock | Volkswagen UK

Remove R-line price is up to 27k. 

 

Ford Puma (Fiasta replacement) is not cheap either: 

26k to 34k. (34k is for the niche model) 

Ford Puma offers & promotions | Ford UK

 

People say EV are expensive obviously haven't priced up cars in general lately. 

 

All cars seem to be getting hellish expensive in my experience...   There's no way I'd buy new these days and even second hand prices seem daft at times for the mileages quoted.

I think Harry has nailed the EV vs ICE car debate here

 

I agree there should never have been a mandate to enforce the switchover.

 

EV's definitely have a place, although hybrid, petrol and diesel do also and the ultimate choice ought to be with the consumer.

 

The appetite for EV only appears to be muted outside the EU and UK it seems, and with the new administration in the US opting out of green energy targets will presumably be Stateside too?

 

It would appear Toyota, Honda and Mazda may have been somewhat visionary in not rushing to embrace an EV only range. 

 

https://youtu.be/Vhi7zldGjBo?si=mAGzz3n8pzbqA5Cn

 

As battery technology changes, which it might with solid state etc, then an EV might become an economically viable option for more individuals.

 

There seems to be a fixation in the UK and across Europe that EV's should be the only option for a new car from 2030/2035 onwards which I've never agreed with. 

 

As ever he gives a very reasoned overview and his video is worth a watch if you have a spare 20 minutes or so (I tend to listen rather than watch in the car 😉)

8 hours ago, pinkpanther said:

I think Harry has nailed the EV vs ICE car debate here

 

I agree there should never have been a mandate to enforce the switchover.

 

EV's definitely have a place, although hybrid, petrol and diesel do also and the ultimate choice ought to be with the consumer.

 

The appetite for EV only appears to be muted outside the EU and UK it seems, and with the new administration in the US opting out of green energy targets will presumably be Stateside too?

 

It would appear Toyota, Honda and Mazda may have been somewhat visionary in not rushing to embrace an EV only range. 

 

https://youtu.be/Vhi7zldGjBo?si=mAGzz3n8pzbqA5Cn

 

As battery technology changes, which it might with solid state etc, then an EV might become an economically viable option for more individuals.

 

There seems to be a fixation in the UK and across Europe that EV's should be the only option for a new car from 2030/2035 onwards which I've never agreed with. 

 

As ever he gives a very reasoned overview and his video is worth a watch if you have a spare 20 minutes or so (I tend to listen rather than watch in the car 😉)

 

Even Harry from Harry's garage is not too bright on EVs and how they work.

 

I enjoyed his large glowing report on the Renault 5 as with Petrol Ped and most of the online car magazines comments on the R5 but Harry needs to understand the tech a bit better.

 

He took out the R5 on a coldish day and with 93% battery and pointed out the reg was weak ish, duh.

 

The combination of cold and such a cold battery and full battery where is the regen power going to go ?

 

Dash actually warn you will not get full regen until battery under 90 %.

 

Other than that great review and like many many have said the R5 seems to be the game changer for ICE to EVs so they are saying in numbers much as the R5 was fifty years ago along with the Alfasud and other smaller ICE cars for the general population.