All this talk about Motability trying to get people into EV's, some are saying its true and others say it's not, let's take a slightly different tack then, here in England it's called Motability and in Scotland it's called AVE, but the overall idea is the same, could it be that there are different approaches on either side of the border?

Many of us enjoy dual tariffs with Octopus or firms doing cheap night time like OCtopus GO and Intelligent Octopus go ie 8.5 or 7 p per KWh for 5 or 6 hours.

Peak time rate only 25.32 p per wh so no real penalty there.  These firms seem to reckon that giving more off peak time users will not use as much peak time lecky.

Presumably they have worked out they will not lose money at these rates so why others so high.  There gas is only 6.19 p per kwh also so quite a good rate. 

 

Apparently Eon, who I am also enrolled with to use chargers at work are no offering 6.7 P per KWh and for 7 hours a day !!!!  .......

https://www.eonnext.com/tariffs/next-drive?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_account=E.ON-Next&utm_campaign=EV-Tariff-Acquisition-Search&utm_Adgroup={Adgroup}&utm_keyword=eon next electric car tariff&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8KaA6-zEiwMV-5ZQBh1WmDPoEAAYASAAEgK8ZPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

In this time that the cap rate is due to go up about 7% or so on April Fools Day.  Sound like we all need to be on one of these great dual rates and maximise their usage or fix tariffs unless all the deal are evaporating as Martin Lewis was saying they appeared to be doing. 

 

 

 

 

 

@Graham Butcher  I got my car from Motability in 2023.

It has been Motability since 1977.

Now Scotland has it,s own benefit system & last year.  I have a letter telling me of the change over, nothing about AVE though. 

.................

Is see this.

The Stickers on Dealers Windows in Scotland is still MOTABILITY & you choose cars from the MOTABILITY list. 

Edited 15 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

A good win, and how stupid was MOTABILITY.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 15 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

@Ootohere Google is your friend, sometimes.. AVE =

What is the new Motability scheme in Scotland?

The Motability Scheme, or Accessible Vehicles and Equipment Scheme as it is now known for those in Scotland on Adult Disability Payment (ADP) or Child Disability Payment (CDP), offers an affordable way for disabled people to get around outside more easily. 3 Jan 2025

@Graham Butcher  Google is your friend and very handy and the Scottish Government are great on press releases.

Crap at implementing stuff. Always behind their own time scale.

 

I have a car, have a contract, My payments are made and i get letters on what changes as legislation requires. 

So they can change names, change how medicals are carried out,etc etc, but the Dealers & Salespeople are the same, the car lists are the same so when something actually changes you can let me know. 

 

nr_social_security_and_adult_disability_payment_as.pdf

Edited 15 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

@Graham Butcher  We will see if the Scottish Government manage to have the usual love in with ARNOLD CLARK, or maybe First Minister John Swinney MSP,s uncle Sir Tom Farmer can get in on things.

He who founded Kwik Fit. 

 

He nails it.

 

 

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

He nails it.

 

I don't think he is too bright or clued up about running EVs and especially in cool weather.

 

He seems to fail to twig, understand or have any of the logical solutions that those that have run EVs for sometime and thought about what is effecting Lithium battery powered EVs in cold weather.   We know Lithium batteries start to suffer charging and discharging and apparently even capacity issues as the temperature falls below 15C.

JayEmm seems to have failed to watch and understand Norwegian youtubers like Bjorn Nyland and what he does to extend battery range in one of European's and the world coldest countries ie Norway.  Firstly one should charge an EV just before the EV goes on its journey as charging warms the battery. Always set mine to charge as late as possible in the night so it is the least amount of time from ending charging to setting off in the vehicle.

 

It is a great shame that the UK has such a poor domestic power structure to most home.  With many European home having 3 phase rather than only single phase these European homes can whack in charge at home at a much higher rate ie 11, 16, 22 kWs depending on the EV and wall box used.  I am sure more homes with Home batteries will be able output 3 phase to the cars sooner than later so it is not just the preserve with those with small holdings, farms etc to use their 3 phase at higher amperage which will help warm these EV just before they go out on their daily journey.

 

Increasingly EVs have battery heater that can heat the battery so that it is toastie when you set off and works like it is summer. The outside weather, even rain as well as temperature does not effect the EV's range much it is the actual battery temperature ie being much less than 15C when commencing the journey.  Pre conditioning battery heating before journey negates much of the problem.  The problems is mainly with Lithium battery chemistry, less so with Lithium Iron Phosphate which is becoming the battery tech of choice and even these LFP batteries and now seeing other chemistry choices, specifically Sodium batteries which are another level again cold resistant.  Some manufacturers are even mixing battery chemistry techs so EVs can have best of all world of performance at low temperatures, from LFP or Sodium and performance from Lithium NMC.  Ans All the while all 3 of these chemistries improve in energy density and overall performance including across a wider temperature range by refining the chemistry.

 

I may go for the LFP Car of the Year Renault 5.  LFP is cheaper and it might make a better overall round the year car for a lower price.  BYDs are all LFP I gather.      

 

The future for home battery working with one's car batteries .......

Not cheap currently but prices will fall like a stone over the next months etc....

Would only do with LFP batteries rather than Lithium NMC...

 

 

@lol-lol  You really need to understand that everyone can not Charge a car before driving. 

For whatever reason.  Even if they can they might have to go collect someone a mile from charging and wait 15 minutes.  Rushing that person to get a move on.

'My battery has cooled'. 

 

Heat your battery, go someplace, go to the hills, go to a hotel, go anyplace.  Start back with a cold non charged battery. 

 

I know these were posted before, but then the one 3 posts up was posted in this thread on Friday.http://

 

 

 

Edited 16 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

4 hours ago, Ootohere said:

@lol-lol  You really need to understand that everyone can not Charge a car before driving. 

For whatever reason.  Even if they can they might have to go collect someone a mile from charging and wait 15 minutes.  Rushing that person to get a move on.

'My battery has cooled'. 

Heat your battery, go someplace, go to the hills, go to a hotel, go anyplace.  Start back with a cold non charged battery. 

I know these were posted before, but then the one 3 posts up was posted in this thread on Friday.http://

 

I went for the smaller battery Scenic so public charging is something I am doing quite a lot of, only yesterday a quick zap and dash on Ionity charger.

Of course charge at home as much as possible as it is about an eighth of the cost but Public charging is needed by many EV driver with wall boxes or granny chargers especially in winter when our range can be reduced by a thirds or so.  Much less of an issue in warmer months April to October. 

 

My worry is more about the lack of UK government in making public charging sites available in the thousands or so sites needed and at a lowish cost relative to home charging.

Those with drives have stumped up a grand or so per home wall box so there must be a but of a premium on public charging to cover capital cost of public chargers etc.

 

Also there is clearly a massive amount of under reported of theft or vandalism of public charger cabling, I would say somewhere of the order of a third to a half of sites have had their cables cut.  Public charging sites have not been very smart with lighting, security camera, armouring the cables and occasional security personnel visits which I would have thought would be economically justified.  It looks like some operators and sites will simple never recover having their cables angle grind off.

 

Just a point of how cheap Public charging can be I did a quick little charge yesterday, just 6.2 kWs to give me about 20 miles, cost £4.17, gets rolled in to my monthly Octopus house bill.  That's about 3 litres of dino juice is it not.  Just a buffer. Still made it home with about 8 kWh "in the tank" but just thought I would play it safe and of course charged next to a Porsche Taycan (not the ***** MacMaster) Cross Turismo and had chat, such nice people, cannot remember the last time I did that at a gas station. 

 

Roll on the summer and up from 3 miles per kwh to up around 4 miles per kWh.

 

There is under reporting about charging by lazy arsed EV drivers using public charging.

On Zapmap and PlugShare.

 

If people bothered to take 4 minutes when they get a successful charge or unsuccessful, chargers damaged etc put up.

 

But then lazy arsed EV users can not be bothered reporting faulty chargers in Scotland to Charge Place Scotland and get a ticket raised.

There can be weeks or months between posts on Zap Map or PlugShare since i posted and nobody else posting updates, working or not.

 

There can be days or weeks of damaged and faulty chargers and no report made so that repairs might get done.

 

@lol-lol Do you check in at chargers & do you post on Zapmap or Plugshare about any chargers you have used?

 

 

I feel sorry for this dude.

Surely he should just enjoy his retirement, get out on his motorcycle and blow away the cobwebs.

 

 

Edited 16 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

16 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

There is under reporting about charging by lazy arsed EV drivers using public charging.

On Zapmap and PlugShare.

 

If people bothered to take 4 minutes when they get a successful charge or unsuccessful, chargers damaged etc put up.

 

But then lazy arsed EV users can not be bothered reporting faulty chargers in Scotland to Charge Place Scotland and get a ticket raised.

There can be weeks or months between posts on Zap Map or PlugShare since i posted and nobody else posting updates, working or not.

 

There can be days or weeks of damaged and faulty chargers and no report made so that repairs might get done.

 

@lol-lol Check in at chargers & do you post on Zapmap or Plugshare about any chargers you have used?

 

I tend to use the Google 12 onboard software but the two issues I see.

 

Firstly I get slow charging ie sometimes only 30 or 40 Kws but I don't know if it is my Scenic cold gating or I see the cables been vandalised but that is already on zap etc.  Google good at telling how may stalls in use but not how many are faulty.

 

BP and Shell just Sh 1 TE in my experience. Chargers don't start charging, authorise payment then freeze and their help desk just do not answer the phone. Will avoid and even use a TESLA charger as BP and Shell are that bad.

 

On the other hand Gridserve Rugby was phenomenal, straight up to 130 kws and at 30% was still doing 100 kws.  But then been driving 2 hours and battery nice and toastie presumably.

 

No not the best public spirited but surely public charge operators should know exactly what is happening by a constant flow of data ?

 

@lol-lol  I just asked if you bothered trying to help others in the EV community by posting on ZapMap or Plugshare if checking in, or any issues.

 

I know the sh!te charger providers and call centres, and i post on ZapMap & Plugshare to share with others. 

I also when i can then report the issue to the company.

 

ZAPMAP is it's self pretty hopeless, but they seem to think they are great.   Nice little earner for someone,

@Ootohereit is still today very disturbing just how many people who really cannot grasp the concepts that Jeyem is talking about when he makes these videos. He like me, can see that EV's are the perfect solution for some people and that there are many millions of people who would like to switch from fossil fuelled cars to electric for all the right reasons but they are unable to do so for literally many reasons.

 

People need to take on board the many points that are raised in the videos that he makes and they need to fully understand that this is not all about them, but about how can everyone get to be able to enjoy the warm smug feeling that these people seem to have instead of creating even more social divides between them and these who simply are unable to get themselves into an EV.

 

It strikes me that a lot people start to hear what he and others say and then instantly shut their ears because they do not want to hear the simple truths.

 

Jayemm also talks about the ULEZ in London and how these are being rolled out to other places as well all of which just adds further pressure on people who for those myriad of other reasons are not driving an EV already.

Edited 16 February, 20251 yr by Graham Butcher

7 pence a kWh on home charging is the wonderful thing. BIK and Salary Sacrifice is fantastic.

 

Over 70 pence being common now for public charging and those who pay for running their vehicles from their income after tax seems to not register with those with cars for business / commercial use. 

 

The Chancellor and the Prime Minister and other Politicians that can travel and travel in the UK with their families using expenses need to get with 'The real world'. 

I would just allow then 2 pence a Mile travel expenses, and £25,000 to purchase an EV for their term as an elected member.

It has to be sold after 5 years and anything it loses over 1/3rd when sold comes out of their leaving payments from parliament.

I would allow them to claim for Ferries and taking the car. 

Edited 16 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

@lol-lol  I just asked if you bothered trying to help others in the EV community by posting on ZapMap or Plugshare if checking in, or any issues.

 

I know the sh!te charger providers and call centres, and i post on ZapMap & Plugshare to share with others. 

I also when i can then report the issue to the company.

 

ZAPMAP is it's self pretty hopeless, but they seem to think they are great.   Nice little earner for someone,

 

If I thought it would do some good then might do more on this Apps but whilst I have been driving EVs for coming up required years I am still new to public charging really. Only now I have got rid of the hybrid Arkana and am pure EV, other than occasionally going somewhere with July son in his Clio hybrid, I am trying to make a go of being pure EV.  I might change my Zoe for a Sandero or another Dacia perhaps.

 

I had forgotten about Plugshare but just been on it. Not impressed that chargers are showing when the comments state the charger has been vandalised by some luddite ie cables cut, but do see, much to my amazement, that there is going to be an eight stall Griserve station half a mile away ie just off J6 of the M5. Add a Costa or Starbucks and heaven has arrived !

 

Edited 16 February, 20251 yr by lol-lol

PlugShare is good for showing New Chargers coming.

Sadly some i have been watching have been showing for several years and still not where they show as going to be. 

 

47 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

K had forgotten about Plugshare but just been on it. Not impressed that chargers are showing when the comments state the charger has been vandalised by some luddite ie cables cut, but do see, much to my amazement, that there is going to be an eight stall Griserve station half a mile away ie just off J6 of the M5. Add a Costa or Starbucks and heaven has arrived !

 

But these issues have been widely reported by a good deal of YouTubers both good and bad ones (according to some EV'ers on here) and most have claimed that these were either staged or never happened and that they had never ever experienced or heard of such events and or bad none functioning chargers, failures with the authorisation of cards etc, these are all factors that it seems nobody other than @Ootohere Vloggers ever talk about, instead, choosing to claim that everything was just perfect with using EV's and required no compromises whatsoever in the way that they use the cars or their lifestyle.

Edited 16 February, 20251 yr by Graham Butcher

3 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

But these issues have been widely reported by a good deal of YouTubers both good and bad ones (according to some EV'ers on here) and most have claimed that these were either staged or never happened and that they had never ever experienced or heard of such events and or bad none functioning chargers, failures with the authorisation of cards etc, these are all factors that it seems nobody other than @Ootohere Vloggers ever talk about, instead, choosing to claim that everything was just perfect with using EV's and required no compromises whatsoever in the way that they use the cars or their lifestyle.

 

There certainly is planning required on long EV journeys and that is something many of us relish the challenge and we know the rewards are ultra low running costs and that we are doing as much as we can to give our children and grandchildren a better economic prospect for their future and minimise what they will need to spend on defences against climate change.

 

2 hours ago, Ootohere said:

I feel sorry for this dude.

Surely he should just enjoy his retirement, get out on his motorcycle and blow away the cobwebs.

Seems to me to be a person who has empathy for his fellow man and is trying to make sure that people are aware of the true situation that the motor trade is in so that they can then go out make some informed decisions about what to buy. That surely is not a bad thing to be doing is it? 

Seems to me he likes earning from Youtube and has to turn out some videos on a regular basis. 

Much Cheapness new and Used Cars for those that wants them and he is out of that game, he has become part of The Media;. 

 

 

 

20 hours ago, lol-lol said:

smaller battery Scenic

My parents have rejected the Kona because of a fault within the car's traditional braking system, master brake cylinder had to be changed. The 12v battery is also not original, strange for a 2 year old car, feels like a lemon or not been looked after by previous Motability owner. 

 

Now they've put down deposit for a Megane e-tech 60 kWh techno mid level spec (no heat pump), I think it's the same battery as yours. 1 year old 8k miles car for £21k from main dealer seems a very good deal. Only £1k more for Ionic top level spec with upgraded stereo, 360 camera and heat pump, but unfortunately they can't get over the ugly yellow teeth appearance for Ionic spec. 

 

I saw you mention heat pump previously. Would non-inclusion affect battery thermal management? Have you got any reading material for Renault's Scenic/Megane heat pump system? 

Do you use any OBD scanner for reading the car? Car Scanner app doesn't report anything from BMS.