30 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

Yesterday i read the article in 'This is money' and mention in the first 3 years the BEV would still be taken to a MOT Test Center to have the mileage checked, and the government / Tax payers would cover the cost.

Yesterday almost every comment i read from EV drivers being asked about the cost of EV,s and would the 3 pence matter, were home chargers or business drivers. Discussion now on BBC Scotland Radio. Nobody seems to mention the 20% VAT at Public Chargers and the cost of charging possibly 10 times those home charging at offpeak. PS. Yesterday my trip cost £4 from the home charge & £6.50 public 50 kW charging. It will be a minimum £30 for the return trip if i do 7kW AC charging @ 50 pence a kWh. or £42 if i Rapid / 50 kW charge in South Ayrshire.

Even Rachel, when interviewed on TV after the budget did not have the faintest idea as to how the mileage was going to be recorded in the first 3 years of a cars' life, in fact it looked that she was not even aware that MOTs were not required until the car became 3 years old. In the end she came up with that being the reason as to why it would take them 3 years to implement the tax.

We so desperately need to stop accepting these politicians who are in politics as a full-time career choice and start electing them with some real world experience and knowledge of how the world actually works, and they see their job as being to improve things both the population and the country during their period in office.

So much of the painful stuff announced in this latest budget is not applicable until 2028 / 2029. I suspect there being a General Election called early anyway.

The Government & Cabinet Ministers do seem very detached from the day to day real world and how it is for many workers or non workers of whatever earning levels who do not get their days to day living expenses and travel and accommodation, utilities etc paid for because of a job they got elected into for a while.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Even Rachel, when interviewed on TV after the budget did not have the faintest idea as to how the mileage was going to be recorded in the first 3 years of a cars' life, in fact it looked that she was not even aware that MOTs were not required until the car became 3 years old. In the end she came up with that being the reason as to why it would take them 3 years to implement the tax.

She was absolutely clueless in that interview and once again looked like a scared rabbit in headlights

Bunch of Renault / Alpine cars as well, as the now get the full Government £3750 grant.....

Also the German made Mini Countryman Electric

Just asking Renault dealer if they can get me the extra £2250, as i only got £1500 grant, would bring my buy price down to well under £20k, but AI is saying it is not likely, ah well.

GOV.UK

Four more EV models qualify for £3,750 discount under Ele...

Government doubles the number of models available for the top ECG discount.

The eligible vehicles are:

• Citroën ë-C5 Aircross Long Range.

• Ford E-Tourneo Courier.

• Ford Puma Gen-E.

• MINI Countryman Electric.

• Nissan LEAF.

• Renault 4.

• Renault 5 (52 kWh)

• Renault Alpine A290.

Almost over 87,000 EV chargers live across the UK then, 4 countries that is, not across the country. Is there something wrong with those that do Government Websites and press articles?

Edited 3 December, 20253 Dec by Evolution13

Is this the way forward to bring electric to those unable to always be able to get a home charge because even with the adoption of a home gully cut into the footpath to bring their charging cable through to the car without a tripping hazard, you often cannot park outside your own house.

If the same engine is used for multiple car brands, it should bring down the cost of both spares and servicing?

This tiny petrol engine is designed to fit in electric cars | Autocar

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Is this the way forward to bring electric to those unable to always be able to get a home charge because even with the adoption of a home gully cut into the footpath to bring their charging cable through to the car without a tripping hazard, you often cannot park outside your own house.

If the same engine is used for multiple car brands, it should bring down the cost of both spares and servicing?

This tiny petrol engine is designed to fit in electric cars | Autocar

I think public chargers and destination chargers will have an increasing place and home chargers diminish as a percentage.

I visited a nice MFG refilling site at Poole last weekend. It had 8 diesel/petrol pumps, 6 150 kw chargers, Subway, shop, toilets.

Mtor Fuels Group, largest of the UK retailers with most forecourts, seem to the getting this right.

Well over 1,000 sites and they seem to be planning to tuck EV charging on those sites where they can plus a few EV only sites where infrastructure dictates. On the other hand, my experience is that BP and Shell are getting it very wrong.

With my company we have EV charging at most if out sites, offices and warehouse at prices close to home charging single tariff homes.

So the big nut to crack is Public chargers and we should see those prices come down by 3.5p per kwh in April but also better sign in deals which I would use but I only use public charging half a dozen times a year so not really worth it but it could change in retirement when I do more visits to relatives. Public charging seems to be able to be had for around 43p a kwh with these deals but that should drop below 40 p per kwh with the electricity price drops in April.

Like with all home "improvements" is it worth putting a channel in, as with adding EV charge boxes or buying a Granny charger to what c an save over public charging costs if they are only 12 p a kwh more than the home charge cost. If one is doing the miles then signing up to the Day / Night tariff schemes and sorting out home charging can be worth it.

www.motorfuelgroup.com

Creekmoor, FS1078 | Fuel Station | Motor Fuel Group

Opening times, contact information, directions, services & extras for our Creekmoor, FS1078 fuel station.

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

I think public chargers and destination chargers will have an increasing place and home chargers diminish as a percentage.

For that to happen two things need to be in place first IMHO

1) the huge difference in cost per kWh between public and home charging needs to reduce drastically or even disappear

2) the number and locations of public chargers needs to increase hugely in ALL areas not just the current hot spots.

Truth of the matter in my world. Stirling Park and ride and 4 Rapid chargers and 3 putting out 26kW max and one 11 kW. So i wanted to charge to 98% @ 65 pence a kWh but with 40 minutes max charging time that was out of the question so just charged tried 2 chargers and got over the £2 minimum cost and was £7. On to Girvan and was going to charge for 5 hours AC but again the chargers were just giving out 4 kW max. So i went on the DC 50 kW , only giving 26 kW as well, got 11 kW, £7.70 and this morning the AC,s would not start so on the 50 KW DC again for 59.5 minutes, 29 kWh bought and car just at 97%. 60 minutes max charging here. So bl00dy expensive, a PITA and tomorrow it will be as expensive if not more in Edinburgh in the poring rain and if i want under cover that will be at MFG for their crazy pricing.

Edited 7 December, 20257 Dec by Evolution13

The reduction of cheap home charging hours does nothing to assist either, it just adds further pain to those who went electric on the promise of reduced running costs.

Edited 7 December, 20257 Dec by Graham Butcher

Scotland and Councils ending the con of Charge Place Scotland and incompetence should be a good thing.  But not when the like of Aberdeen ? Aberdeenshire went to 70 pence a kWh and still faulty and out of service charger.   Priced as the Highland Council was .   Then there is Perth & Kinross and Angus going their own way and yesterday at Perth Park and ride 7 out of 10 chargers faulty.   At least the TESLA Superchargers are there working as they seem to at all the locations.     The Free Market away from Charge Place Scotland is pretty much 75 pence a kWh or more if not using TESLA.   We are talkng double running an efficient ICE prices.

@Evolution13 so that, if replicated everywhere else will basically mean that unless you can survive purely on the reduced time of home charging, when the reduction happens next month, the only thing going for them is the belief that you are allegedly helping the planet in return for the inconvenience. of all the waiting around for the battery to recharge.

I say allegedly because I know that certain people will trot out all the usual guff about this and that, but as far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out on the overall benefits to the planet with the complete cycle of the impact of the entire damage of the cars' contribution globally to everything.

Edited 7 December, 20257 Dec by Graham Butcher

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

The reduction of cheap home charging hours does nothing to assist either, it just adds further pain to those who went electric on the promise of reduced running costs.

As far as I am aware the 3.5 per Kwh to everyone applies ? Including the Public charging networks, is not the case ?

Public charging networks need to all have the 20p reduction for reduction in te cheap periods and perhaps a 10p a kwh when outside the teatime slot of 4-7 pm when I would be quite happy for them to charge a £1 a kwh as everyone should be who can shift but uses electricity when it is very expensive from the Grid.

The pubic charging networks are slowly getting better at offering cheaper electricity when it is cheaper for them. Of course the connections fees for the Public Chargers companies to the grid are huge and their capital expenditure is also big. When my company owned Source London with its near 2,000 public chargers the cost of these charging units plus the associated install costs can be between £20k and £100k per rapid /ultra rapid chargers s that investment has to be recovered as well.

So public charging cost should come down a lot over the next 6 months as they will with home charging.

The cost of EV running is going to come down and down and the 3 p a mile is just a measure to get EVs to pay some tax as that amount we pay is just going down and down whether it is the VAT on the vehicle due to then getting cheaper and government grants making it so or ever cheaper electricity costs. Converse the case whether it is oil company profiteering, increase fuel duty and VED.

As more and more people buy electric vehicles the cheap periods will keep reducing in length, as more and more solar and wind becomes available the price of the electricity on standby needed to stabilise the grid will increase.

Charger and Charging hubs getting connected to the grid was taking weeks and months and still is and in some cases it is now into years. That is Real World & not just in Scotland. Now there are politicians and others saying Scotland has an over provision of Battery Storage and they want any more being passed for planning and built banned. What a bunch of absolute idiots.

Edited 7 December, 20257 Dec by Evolution13

1 hour ago, Stonekeeper said:

As more and more people buy electric vehicles the cheap periods will keep reducing in length, as more and more solar and wind becomes available the price of the electricity on standby needed to stabilise the grid will increase.

Keep reducing in length ?

Only IntelligentOctopus GO gave introduced a fair usage constain but users still get 6 hours so EV owners can get over 40 kwh in their cars.

Some of us use Octopus GO which give us 5 hours of cheap charging between 0030 and 0530 and I find they enough to take the cars from say 25% to 80% charge, even the Scenic with its 60 kwh battery never mind the R5 with its 40 kwh battery and the Mini Cooper E which i can see stopping charging around 0400-0430 as they gave taken 25 to 30 kwh ie up to 90% well in advance of the 0530 cutoff.

I was chuffed when Octopus GO cheap hours was extended from 4 hours to 5 hours cheap shift and continuallty pegging the rates of IOG and GO at 7p and 8.5 p respectively means tgat relatively the price has been dropping in real terms.

If Grid supply costs were to go higher or less cheap time, I think we could expect ever more people to generate their own i tge grid and electricity wholesalers have to think about driving recover more users to making their own and not buying from the grid. Electricity is typically about 1p per kwh when being made or taken from the interconnects and then all the fluff is added on top. Users are adding more battery storage themselves so can choose even more when to buy from the Grid.

Had a another peak at National Grid live ie iamkate website and great to see Wind commonly out supplying gas.

I believe electricity is going to get cheaper abd onward, gas happen in many countries and needs to and wi happen here in the UK.

@lol-lol i believe you are totally wrong on the domestic electricity getting cheaper in any of our lifetimes. It is high time that England was producing enough for it's own usage.

1 minute ago, Evolution13 said:

@lol-lol i believe you are totally wrong on the domestic electricity getting cheaper in any of our lifetimes. It is high time that England was producing enough for it's own usage.

We can easily have benefits from both the worlds largest wind farms which are off the English coast in the North Sea and if we get our finger out and biuld those tidal generation systems in the Bristol Channel which can provide about 5 GW and do it with consistency with only the relative minor variations of Neap and Spring tides. Of the 3 ie solar, wind and tidal tide is the most reliable which is the main criticism that renewable get.

Edited 7 December, 20257 Dec by lol-lol

^^^ Great get up the pylons then and use that electricity that comes ashore. Less need to bring it from the Cruden Bay / Peterhead the length of Scotland on the highest pylons while those nearest the generation pay the higher tariffs.

2 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

Good news that the government is removing hundreds of millions of pounds of these add ons off our unit price in April only 111 days time, abd off gas as well. 3 5p per kwh of electricity and about 0.4 p per kwh off gas which is already very cheap compared to even the Night time rates for electricity.

1 minute ago, Evolution13 said:

^^^ Great get up the pylons then and use that electricity that comes ashore. Less need to bring it from the Cruden Bay / Peterhead the length of Scotland on the highest pylons while those nearest the generation pay the higher tariffs.

I last read the plan was to have under sea interconnectors between Scotland and England.

There is already the ultra high voltage Grid close to Bristol and along the South Wales coast which is also being used to plug in new Battery Storage sites in that area.

As with Scotland the area of North Wales and Merseyside pay very high standing charges etc. I would like to see a UK rate for standing charges ratger than this inequitable situation. National Grid national pricing.

The Government is doing nothing. They have no money. the population and the companies have money the treasury get. The Bill Payers who do pay are paying to write off the debts of those that got the help during covid and still never paid their Energy Utility bills. PS. Yes the Interconnectors are coming down the east coast taking electricity from the Northern Isles, not the Electricity generated on the Mainland. Best England get on with the Small Modular Nuclear plants. Build baby build. Run the Pylons.

Edited 7 December, 20257 Dec by Evolution13

25 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

The Government is doing nothing. They have no money. the population and the companies have money the treasury get. The Bill Payers who do pay are paying to write off the debts of those that got the help during covid and still never paid their Energy Utility bills. PS. Yes the Interconnectors are coming down the east coast taking electricity from the Northern Isles, not the Electricity generated on the Mainland. Best England get on with the Small Modular Nuclear plants. Build baby build. Run the Pylons.

The Angelsey reactors can link into the Snowdonia high voltage lines that link Dinorwig, think they are over 2 GW lines. They needed to bury them as they crossed though Snowdonia National Park and produced thermal vents which were made to look like shepherd's day time rest huts, cute.

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

The Angelsey reactors can link into the Snowdonia high voltage lines that link Dinorwig, think they are over 2 GW lines. They needed to bury them as they crossed though Snowdonia National Park and produced thermal vents which were made to look like shepherd's day time rest huts, cute.

I used to know one of the architects on that Dinorwig plant and have been down there to see it; it is well hidden.