52 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

You need to do more research rather than guess.

The public chargers for the e trucks that Gridserve have just put online are 350 kw ones. I have 400 kw charger a mile from my house and provided by MFG who are a massive provider of EV charging as well as liquid fuel abd seem to be ready as anyone in the uk for the transition to electric motive power.

The UK lags many European countries and perhaps this is due to the extra land needed for the charging slots for EV trucks but as with EV cars the existing disel pumps will ve converted to EV chargers.

Something you have missed that us EV car drivers should ve careful what we wish for is as both more EV trucks come along and more massive battery mega packs come along they will buy the cheap night tine electricity, that 7 and 8 p per kwh stuff and we will have to pay much more or increasingly look at generating our own.

This is where the UK National Grid us actually transmitting less because there is much more local generation. Whether it is individual companies taking MWhs of power or households generating KWh for their own consumption meaning less needed by the grid in industrial and residential areas. Road side will need more but bith the capacity of production is due to climb massively, I can see circa 100GWs being in the various electricity producing tech ie wind, tidal, solar, pump storage, with massive battery banks smoothing demand and production and oft placed at the car and truck charging sites. A fantastic business for thise companies that get it right.

I keep looking at my battery storage options and I would not be surprised that I get a DC charger myself. Going from the batteries to DC for my EVs would be great. Get the earthing sorted out seems the challenge as AC from mains charging has earthing sorted but trying to charge from non mains charging seems challenging ie from batteries or V2L from one EV to another EV via a Granny charger. A tech problem to solve.

In Europe my company is already doing long haul EV trucking. We have access to MW chargers from country grids that already have excess capacity from renewable so the electricity is half the price than in the UK. UK will get there eventually but, as usual, is lagging some European countries for a host of reasons.

Well, that 350 KW and the 400 KW is much much more than the 22 KW that you was talking about to begin with, but you are missing the point I fear when you try to compare the UK with Europe etc, we are not ONLY lagging behind in the charger network, but we are seriously lagging in the generation stakes, which is the very point that I was trying to illustrate when mentioned the amount of power that just 2,700 32-tonne juggernauts (Turners of Soham fleet, only) would require to recharge their batteries overnight.

These trucks will not want to take a risk on partially charging their trucks because of operational factors that are likely to impact their daily routines, and destinations and routes can and do change to reflect local circumstances, and the last thing they want, and indeed you would want, is to come across a number of these trucks stuck on the motorways, dual carriageways, etc., because they miscalculated the amount of energy required for their working day. You may want to take risks in your car, but they would not. A simple car breakdown in the wrong place causes enough problems to the traffic flow; think of the consequences of one of these trucks doing the same.

For example:

Based on data regarding the UK's largest logistics operators, the top 15 transport and logistics companies operate a combined fleet of over 35,000 to 40,000 HGVs (Heavy Goods Vehicles). 

Key industry leaders contributing to this total include:

• DHL Supply Chain: One of the largest, frequently topping fleet lists with thousands of trucks.

• Wincanton: Operates over 3,500 vehicles.

• Culina Group: A major player following the acquisition of Eddie Stobart, Great Bear, and others.

• GXO Logistics: A leading operator, with trailer fleets exceeding 5,000 in some reports.

• Royal Mail Group: Operates a very large,4,000+ trailer/HGV fleet.

• Kinaxia Logistics: Operates approximately 920 vehicles. 

Other top firms in the top 15-30 rankings contributing to this, as identified by CILT(UK) and Motor Transport, include XPO, DPD, Kuehne + Nagel, Turners (Soham), Maersk, and Eddie Stobart. 

Context on Fleet Sizes:

• There are over 530,000 licensed HGVs in Great Britain.

• The top 1,000+ fleets in the UK collectively hold operator licences for over 300,000 trucks.

• The top 25 trailer fleets in the UK are responsible for well over 100,000 trailers

I'm not talking large fleets with small to meduim sized vans and last mile delivery vans but proper full sized trucks like those below.
If the electric dream actually does continue and not get derailed, then I have no doubt that the UK will get there in the fullness of time

Edited 30 January30 Jan by Graham Butcher

On 26/01/2026 at 09:27, Graham Butcher said:

This morning I heard on the radio an advert for an electric car. I forgot what the car was, but it was the way that they were advertising it that caught my attention. They were say that it can drive from London to Sheffield on a single charge, which costs just £5.

That struck me as being extremely misleading because they are assuming the car is charged at home and the car has a capacity of at least 45 kWh, and based on getting 4 miles to the KW, it would require a full charge of 6 hours on a 7 kW home charger in order to get 42 kWh stored. What about the return trip, that is highly likely to cost around 6 times as much, approx £30.

That advert actually turned out not to be for a particular car, it was a generic advert for electric cars in general, so I'm guessing it was sponsored by the government to help prop up dwindling sales and try to get back onto the right path for their ambitious targets.

16 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Well, that 350 KW and the 400 KW is much much more than the 22 KW that you was talking about to begin with, but you are missing the point I fear when you try to compare the UK with Europe etc, we are not ONLY lagging behind in the charger network, but we are seriously lagging in the generation stakes, which is the very point that I was trying to illustrate when mentioned the amount of power that just 2,700 32-tonne juggernauts (Turners of Soham fleet, only) would require to recharge their batteries overnight.

These trucks will not want to take a risk on partially charging their trucks because of operational factors that are likely to impact their daily routines, and destinations and routes can and do change to reflect local circumstances, and the last thing they want, and indeed you would want, is to come across a number of these trucks stuck on the motorways, dual carriageways, etc., because they miscalculated the amount of energy required for their working day. You may want to take risks in your car, but they would not. A simple car breakdown in the wrong place causes enough problems to the traffic flow; think of the consequences of one of these trucks doing the same.

For example:

Based on data regarding the UK's largest logistics operators, the top 15 transport and logistics companies operate a combined fleet of over 35,000 to 40,000 HGVs (Heavy Goods Vehicles). 

Key industry leaders contributing to this total include:

• DHL Supply Chain: One of the largest, frequently topping fleet lists with thousands of trucks.

• Wincanton: Operates over 3,500 vehicles.

• Culina Group: A major player following the acquisition of Eddie Stobart, Great Bear, and others.

• GXO Logistics: A leading operator, with trailer fleets exceeding 5,000 in some reports.

• Royal Mail Group: Operates a very large,4,000+ trailer/HGV fleet.

• Kinaxia Logistics: Operates approximately 920 vehicles. 

Other top firms in the top 15-30 rankings contributing to this, as identified by CILT(UK) and Motor Transport, include XPO, DPD, Kuehne + Nagel, Turners (Soham), Maersk, and Eddie Stobart. 

Context on Fleet Sizes:

• There are over 530,000 licensed HGVs in Great Britain.

• The top 1,000+ fleets in the UK collectively hold operator licences for over 300,000 trucks.

• The top 25 trailer fleets in the UK are responsible for well over 100,000 trailers

I'm not talking large fleets with small to meduim sized vans and last mile delivery vans but proper full sized trucks like those below.
If the electric dream actually does continue and not get derailed, then I have no doubt that the UK will get there in the fullness of time

The trucking model is a bit more complex than you illustrate below. We are top 20 in terms of number of trailers in the UK but own few tractive units. An efficient way to operate is for us to completely load the trailers, think we have nearly 2,000, and then we use a haulage company we have under contract usually, rarely a spot price, and get them to collect and deliver the trailer when ready.

I mention 22 kw chargers as they are cheap to install, anything DC, even from 25 KW all the way up to 1 MW chargers are big money. I saw this when my company owned Source London before it was sold to Total. This is what is oft forgotten that the price of Public charging rolls in to it several massive factors ie capital investment in the equipment, the connection charges to the grid, possibly land rental off the site owner and then finally the actual electricity cost which can actually be as little as only 10% of the price charged to the user and hopefully the company is making a bit of profit so as to continue the expansion of their public charging network.

So truck operates, and this could be the companies that operate the tractive units and not so much the trailers, have the three way choice. Of course get as many 22 kw AC chargers at their premise to top up the tractive units, for the EV cars they run, as we do at most of our warehouses to also help all those staff on EV Salary sacrifice schemes and other members of staff with EVs. Secondly many trucking firms will invest in their own DC chargers even if as small as 25 KW. Link their solar to their batteries and charge the trucks and cars with cheap grid and solar power. Thirdly, like us EV drivers, use the Public DC chargers to top up at the massive power they can do so ie hundreds of KWs. A forth scenario will be for EV trucks to charge up whilst discharging their cargo and grab a few tens of KWhs then and have some sort of discount/netting price off the transportation price for getting part charge when unloading.

Another video on the Gridserve rollout for e trucks.

I was initially disappointed on the spec that the Exeter and Baldock (A1M J10 Nr Stevenage) truck chargers are only 350 KWs but it is a start and it sounds like there will be charge more of the half and full MW in the pipeline in the next 12 months..........

Edited 31 January31 Jan by lol-lol

@lol-lol I get your point about there being more trailers, but the point there is you just don't see many tractor units from the companies I listed hauling other people's trailers.

Yes, I have seen the odd one or two here or there of, say, Turner's tractors hauling trailers with other names on them, but very few, so I think it is reasonable to assume that the majority of the HGVs listed as registered in the UK are for complete units, not just tractors with trailers making up the majority. Don't forget that a trailer has no power unit, so it is NOT registered, and from what I have seen and learnt from my time when I was a truck driver for a number of years, there will be significantly more trailers than trucks.

When trucks arrive at a warehouse/factory, etc., with a trailer full for that customer, it is highly likely the driver will back the trailer to a loading bay and drop it, then pick another trailer, either empty or maybe full of new products produced at the factory, etc., and then transport them to their destination. And then that process starts all over again and again.

When a truck is not moving, it is not earning, and with many transport companies, especially those with regular contracts moving stuff between factories and distribution centres, etc., it will very much be a 24/7 operation with drivers on shift patterns and changing over when a truck rolls into one of those centres. Anyone who watched the TV series about Eddie Stobart truckers will have seen that in operation. Now with a diesel, maybe 20 to 30 minutes of refuelling, and then that tractor could leave the complex with a fresh driver at the wheel and a new trailer attached. A 22 or 25 kW charger would stick in the battery in a short time. What, 10 or 15 miles of range? They will have to go with the largest chargers available, and that is where your massive load on the grid will come from.

Don't forget that currently the grid struggles at times, and we only have currently a low percentage of electric cars on the road, and at times those with V2G capability are selling some of their cars' power back to the grid to help out. When you start getting HGV trucks demanding chargers of 350 kW and higher to keep trucks moving as much as possible, the grid will severely stretched. You say yourself that you was disappointed to see chargers at Exeter and Baldock were only 350 kW and hopeful of seeing 500 kW and even 1 MW arriving in the 12 months.

So that will make matters even worse, not better.

Edited 31 January31 Jan by Graham Butcher

@Stonekeeper I think that Jag I-Pace was good all-round car, not one that would appeal to me. I loved the XJ series personally and have driven them as well, what a car, full of waftability.

The points raised in that video, I think, just sums up the UK in general, not just the car industry.

UK as a entire nation over the years has just got complacent and just let the rest of the world catch up and zoomed past us and we are now struggling in their wake, trying to catch up again, but that level of depreciation is making living with not just Jags but all electric cars in private ownership hard to live with. I paid half as much again for my 6-year-old Kodiaq, which, like all diesels are holding their value well, especially when you factor in the fact that when my Kodiaq was new, it sold for half the price of that I-Pace and outperformed it on the depreciation stakes as well.

Rivian winter road trip data, I know it's a pick up truck, but imagine the cost Rapid charging in the uk?

2 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

Rivian winter road trip data, I know it's a pick up truck, but imagine the cost Rapid charging in the uk?

American press saying it was the winner in the winter test but looking at the data it is clear it is due to it massive battery as its efficiency and performance in the very cold weather was relatively poor.

Is it not Rivian that VW Group invested billions in ?

Surprise the Chinese stare brands did so well and Tesla kind of average.

On 26/01/2026 at 09:27, Graham Butcher said:

This morning I heard on the radio an advert for an electric car. I forgot what the car was, but it was the way that they were advertising it that caught my attention. They were say that it can drive from London to Sheffield on a single charge, which costs just £5.

That struck me as being extremely misleading because they are assuming the car is charged at home and the car has a capacity of at least 45 kWh, and based on getting 4 miles to the KW, it would require a full charge of 6 hours on a 7 kW home charger in order to get 42 kWh stored. What about the return trip, that is highly likely to cost around 6 times as much, approx £30.

Maybe ten to twenty pounds rather than £30.

45 kwh is not a common size. There are some cars round the 40 kwh, both my 5 is and also our Mini Cooper E but they are cars for local transportation and when we do journeys of 200, 250, 300, 350 mile round trips we take the Scenic. My Scenic only has a 60/65 kwh battery and the more popular variant has a 87 / 92 kwh battery and now the price is similar to the 60 kwh version i bought 18 months ago.

Either Scenic, mid sized somewhere between a hatchback and a SUV, European Car of the Year 2024, could do the 167 miles London to Sheffield and either have about 25% or 45% of the battery left. Cost about £3.

On the way home both cars would need a partial top up. In my 60 kwh nominal battery size I would drive about an hour so battery warm to accept a charge and to up about 20 kwh to get me the rest of the way. Cost more like £20 but if I spent a few more thousand and got the 87 / 92 kwh battery, or bought now, just probably would only need about 10 kwh or just under £10, plus the original £3, to complete the journey. Quite a bit less than £30.

One choose to cruise at a true 65 or 60 rather than true 70 mph and the efficiency is much better in miles per kwh and less public charging and therefore cost.

Still think I am only spending about 3p per mile including my very occasional public charges, like many EV drivers it is high 90% home charging. I do plan A road, bypass etc routes rather than just take the longer motorway routes.

Certainly will be doing even more of this if / when pay per mile comes in. Sorry in advance to town and village dwellers if it increases traffic through those places.

Edited 2 February2 Feb by lol-lol

I read a few days ago that New cars in China from 2027 (typo) will not be allowed with hidden door handles or ones just electrically operated. They have to be able to operate mechanically from inside and outside. Not just an BEV thing.

Edited 5 February5 Feb by Evolution13

50 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

I read a few days ago that New cars in China from 2017 will not be allowed with hidden door handles or ones just electrically operated. They have to be able to operate mechanically from inside and outside. Not just an BEV thing.

Agreed and not before time either, all to often basic safety is ignored in pursuit of fashion, saving money etc. The next thing that needs banning is touch screen controls. Sure they look lovely but they are extremely dangerous as you have to look at the screen to use them.

PS, you also meant 2027 not 2017 😉

Some UK rags are touting that BEV sales have gone in to reverse and petrol is surging back, Can't see it.

Diesel down to less than 9% of sales and continue to fall, petrol down 2%.

The Rise in PHEV sales is the big story I think. PHEVs that can do over 50 miles on electric, sometimes 80-ish, cover the commute and the combustion engine used for those longer weekend journeys for pleasure etc.

I think PHEV buyers will find out the do use more petrol than the advertised 400 to 800 mpg and higher road tax and BIX coming down the road and the 1.5p a mile of course in 2028 and higher fuel prices from September.

Edited 6 February6 Feb by lol-lol

50 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Some UK rags are touting that BEV sales have gone in to reverse and petrol is surging back, Can't see it.

Diesel down to less than 9% of sales and continue to fall, petrol down 2%.

The Rise in PHEV sales is the big story I think. PHEVs that can do over 50 miles on electric, sometimes 80-ish, cover the commute and the combustion engine used for those longer weekend journeys for pleasure etc.

I think PHEV buyers will find out the do use more petrol than the advertised 400 to 800 mpg and higher road tax and BIX coming down the road and the 1.5p a mile of course in 2028 and higher fuel prices from September.

Well you'd better believe it because it all seems true. Diesels have gone down only because there are so very few of them made today.

Only a complete idiot would ever believe the stupid mpg figures being claimed. Look at the petrol powered version of the car and knock about 10% off the cars claimed mpg and you would closer to the true figure, after all you're lugging about all the extra weight of the battery and the other gear.

Edited 6 February6 Feb by Graham Butcher

9 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Well you'd better believe it because it all seems true. Diesels have gone down only because there are so very few of them made today.

Only a complete idiot would ever believe the stupid mpg figures being claimed. Look at the petrol powered version of the car and knock about 10% off the cars claimed mpg and you would closer to the true figure, after all you're lugging about all the extra weight of the battery and the other gear.

I can see the PHEV buyer shouting foul like Diesel buyer did a few years back. If someone does not get their PHEV registered by April this year then it sounds like the advantages they thought they were getting will evaporate. Art Intel gave this answer......

---

Yes, Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEVs) in the UK face significantly higher Benefit-in-Kind (BiK) tax from 2025/2026 due to stricter emissions testing (Euro 6e-bis) and increased Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) from April 2025. Furthermore, a new pay-per-mile "eVED" tax (1.5p/mile for PHEVs) launches in April 2028.

Key Changes Affecting PHEVs:

• Higher BiK (Company Car Tax): From January 1, 2025 (and April 2026 in GB), stricter emissions testing will likely increase CO2 figures for many PHEVs, driving up their BiK tax bands. Some projections suggest rates could rise from 9% to 24% for certain models.

• Increased VED (Road Tax): From April 2025, first-year road tax for cars emitting 1–50g/km of CO2 (which includes most PHEVs) increases to £110.

• Expensive Car Supplement: PHEVs costing over £40,000 (or £50,000+ for some models) pay an additional fee.

• New Pay-Per-Mile Tax (2028): Starting April 2028, PHEVs will pay a 1.5p per mile rate, added to the existing VED, as part of a move to tackle lost fuel duty.

• End of Low-Tax Loophole: The significant tax advantages for PHEVs are closing, with 2028 seeing 0-emission mileage differentiators likely dropped, placing them in higher tax brackets closer to traditional vehicles.

Drivers looking to lock in lower, current rates should ensure their vehicle is registered before the April 2025/2026 changes.

1 minute ago, lol-lol said:

I can see the PHEV buyer shouting foul like Diesel buyer did a few years back. If someone does not get their PHEV registered by April this year then it sounds like the advantages they thought they were getting will evaporate. Art Intel gave this answer......

---

Yes, Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEVs) in the UK face significantly higher Benefit-in-Kind (BiK) tax from 2025/2026 due to stricter emissions testing (Euro 6e-bis) and increased Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) from April 2025. Furthermore, a new pay-per-mile "eVED" tax (1.5p/mile for PHEVs) launches in April 2028.

Key Changes Affecting PHEVs:

• Higher BiK (Company Car Tax): From January 1, 2025 (and April 2026 in GB), stricter emissions testing will likely increase CO2 figures for many PHEVs, driving up their BiK tax bands. Some projections suggest rates could rise from 9% to 24% for certain models.

• Increased VED (Road Tax): From April 2025, first-year road tax for cars emitting 1–50g/km of CO2 (which includes most PHEVs) increases to £110.

• Expensive Car Supplement: PHEVs costing over £40,000 (or £50,000+ for some models) pay an additional fee.

• New Pay-Per-Mile Tax (2028): Starting April 2028, PHEVs will pay a 1.5p per mile rate, added to the existing VED, as part of a move to tackle lost fuel duty.

• End of Low-Tax Loophole: The significant tax advantages for PHEVs are closing, with 2028 seeing 0-emission mileage differentiators likely dropped, placing them in higher tax brackets closer to traditional vehicles.

Drivers looking to lock in lower, current rates should ensure their vehicle is registered before the April 2025/2026 changes.

Do you get the impression that the UK government really have much of a clue what they want to achieve here?

4 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Do you get the impression that the UK government really have much of a clue what they want to achieve here?

I think, as an ex Civil Servant and party member, they are torn in so many ways and with 400 odd MPs and the various government departments there is so much noise it is difficult to make a clear decision.

The EU has put up large import duties on EV but the UK not at all. PHEVs may sound like they are a great solution in many way. Cleaner running in town but UK government still gets to sell petrol and keep that £25B of revenue rolling in which they badly need. Collect some nice import duties on cars like the Jaecoo 7, half the price of similar sized JLR product.

Government will be quite happy with not making any massive moves to restrict choice, buyers can still buy what they want but there is a fund of over £1B for EV assistance grants even though they hardly need it now as prices have fallen so far.

So torn between being greener but keeping revenue streams up. Seem to me to be a reasonable middle way and perhaps not as Draconian as the EU with its up to 48% tariff on EVs like SAIC MGs, yet they still sell quite well there. In the UK the prices are incredibly cheap with now 10% of cars sold in the UK being Chinese, mainly BEVs and PHEVs I gather.

We seem to be stumbling in the right direction though it was sad when it made sense to stop running my Jaguar Type S as the emission and annual road tax were getting close to its actual value and this is happening every year now but the policy now is not to allow dirty cars to run UK roads without huge financial penalties.

Edited 6 February6 Feb by lol-lol

While this is not all about electric cars, it will apply to all cars soon.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

While this is not all about electric cars, it will apply to all cars soon.

Renault have cleverly kept the key features as buttons and maybe that is one of the reasons why their sales have actually gone up whilst most European car producers have gone down plus their prices look comparable to the Chinese and Korean manufacturers.

Edited 6 February6 Feb by lol-lol

The issue or elephant in the room with PHEV,s and bigger batteries and greater range on electric and no need to fire up the engines. Reported problems for some. ICE and GPF. Petrol engine not running often enough or for long enough. Maybe not a worry to those leasing and company cars. Maybe not a worry to many who just keep cars for the time there is a warranty or there is a setvice plan. As to used PHEV,s. Then it might well be a lottery. Was the car low mileage, or higher and FMDSH, but only did a few hundred or thousand miles with the petrol engine each year.

On 06/02/2026 at 12:50, lol-lol said:

Renault have cleverly kept the key features as buttons and maybe that is one of the reasons why their sales have actually gone up whilst most European car producers have gone down plus their prices look comparable to the Chinese and Korean manufacturers.

As have Dacia I understand?

This is the reason for China banning flush door handles and door handles that need electrical power to operate. How long before the rest of the world follows suite, as he says, this car because it was electric burst into fire within 60 secs. but ICE cars, even if the fuel tank has been ruptured, do not do so, they need a source of ignition. Watch the video for the full info.

3 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

As have Dacia I understand?

And some of the Koreans too for new models I understand - it seems that only the 'premium' marques are sticking withy touch screens for now (Mercedes for example).

Does your EV have a "creep" mode ?

3 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

Does your EV have a "creep" mode ?

Wow, thats scary.

2 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Wow, thats scary.

It is strange and needs addressing

Kyle (the presenter) states that if the driver had touched the accelerator pedal it would stop the rapid acceleration because then the traction control would kick in?

They were deliberately making the vehicle do what it did by setting it to creep and releasing the brake pedal only.