Car Details:

Year: 2015

Mileage: 166000km

Engine: 1.0 mpi 44kw (60hp)

Engine Code: CHYA

Transmission: 5 speed manual

 

So recently ive noticed a couple of clutch related noises, the first of which is a loud rattle when the clutch is up in neutral, seems to happen on and off as it sees fit, seemingly at random, sometimes it will rattle very loudly, sometimes it rattles just a little, sometimes it runs smooth as butter. My guess is throw-out bearing, although it could be a number of bearings in the gearbox. Also releasing the clutch quickly will cause a loud rattley noise too (think the clutch plates colliding) , so thats what we can refer to as noise 1 in the rest of this discussion.

 

Noise 2 is moving over the somewhere in the vicinity of the clutch pedal itself (Right Hand Drive) , off and on it will make a "ploop" kind of noise just as I release the clutch, no noise when pressing it in. Best way I can describe the noise is think of covering the lid of an empty water bottle with the palm of your hand, squeezing it to pull a light vacuum and the pulling your hand away making a hollow popping noise. It happens on and off but I seem to only notice it when the car is cold, and goes away when warm.

 

It is worth mentioning that today I was doing some other maintenance on the car and when I took the brake fluid cap off, the rubber inner lid was folded over itself in half, perhaps this has something to do with Noise 2 and more likely something to do with the next issue I will discuss.

 

So my final issue id like some advice on is about the brake pedal, to me it feels way too soft and I can feel it bottom out with not all that much pressure. The front brake pads have plenty of life left although I have never checked the rear drum brake shoes since o bought the car at 150000km. To describe the feel of the brake pedal, I can push it just over half of its travel with almost no force, and it applies almost no braking in this zone, then it feels a bit harder for the rest of its travel before reaching a hard physical stop (if i push it down quickly i can hear it hitting something so it brake pressure stopping me), also when i release the brake pedal, the pedal seems to hesitate and lag behind my foot moving up. Turning the engine off and pumping the brake, it does build and hold pressure, and becomes rock solid as it should. It could just be me but it also seems that the pedal is firmer at some times than it is at others, originally i though it was temperature but on cold start earlier today it was soft as could be. 

 

 

Thank you so much for reading all of that if you made it this far, all thoughts are appreciated!

 

Has the brake / clutch fluid ever been checked / changed?

 

Thanks, AG Falco

58 minutes ago, AGFalco said:

Has the brake / clutch fluid ever been checked / changed?

 

Thanks, AG Falco

I've only owned that car since April (150000km), there no service record of it being done, I took a quick look at it and it looks clear and clean

A brake fluid tester can check the boiling point of the fluid which will give you a clue as to its quality.

A good garage will have one. They might check it for free.

 

Thanks, AG Falco

6 hours ago, LightRobin said:

I have never checked the rear drum brake shoes

Big hint! I've also had a car where the handbrake cables were also the adjusters for the rear drums, and the sheaths collapsed every 2 or 3 years causing long pedal travel.

2 hours ago, KenONeill said:

Big hint! I've also had a car where the handbrake cables were also the adjusters for the rear drums, and the sheaths collapsed every 2 or 3 years causing long pedal travel.

Hmm, my handbrake seems to hold well, I'm not sure what you mean by sheaths tho (I'm not 100% familiar with drum brakes but have a good idea) it is worth mentioning that when I went to work today (yesterday now) the brake pedal felt much much better than it did when I made the original post, could an issue in the drum brakes cause the pedal to feel soft seemingly randomly?

3 hours ago, AGFalco said:

A brake fluid tester can check the boiling point of the fluid which will give you a clue as to its quality.

A good garage will have one. They might check it for free.

 

Thanks, AG Falco

Are the cheap brake fluid testers on Amazon any good? They just tell you the water content of the brake fluid and are very accurate from what I've heard, id want to avoid going to a garage out of pure laziness 😛

10 hours ago, LightRobin said:

I'm not sure what you mean by sheaths

The outer layer of Bowden cables. My handbrake still worked well enough, but the footbrake pedal travel increased.

If it was my old car I'd think it sounds like brake rubber? flexihoses  breaking down, perhaps internally, or perhaps a problem with the brake master cylinder.

 

Another thing, when you took the brake reservoir cap off was it cover in dirt, did you clean the cap before taking it off, was it clean on the inside?

 

I don't know the drum brakes and handbrake mech on your car but on my old car cleaning and lubricating as required the rear drums, and handbrake mech, will help with pedal feel and travel, as with most servicing, maintenance and repairs much of it boils down to clean and lubricate, even the electronics can be a matter of cleaning.

 

Edited 17 December, 20214 yr by nta16

Just now, nta16 said:

Another thing, when you took the brake reservoir cap off was it cover in dirt, did you clean the cap before taking it off, was it clean on the inside?

 

No it was clean on the inside and I wiped the area around the cap down before opening, the fluids looked good but the little filter cup refused to come out (wasn't seized in place or anything, I'm just guessing it has to be oriented a certain way to come out, played with it a bit and decided there's not much point) so I didn't get to look past that

2 hours ago, KenONeill said:

The outer layer of Bowden cables. My handbrake still worked well enough, but the footbrake pedal travel increased.

Any other symptoms it caused/how would I diagnose to make sure that's my issue?

1 minute ago, LightRobin said:

Any other symptoms it caused/how would I diagnose to make sure that's my issue?

You'd have to examine the cables with HB off and on for signs of the outers contracting with the HB on. This needs a level surface, and ideally a 4 wheel held lift.

7 minutes ago, LightRobin said:

No it was clean on the inside and I wiped the area around the cap down before opening, the fluids looked good but the little filter cup refused to come out (wasn't seized in place or anything, I'm just guessing it has to be oriented a certain way to come out, played with it a bit and decided there's not much point) so I didn't get to look past that

I don't think the plastic strainer type cage thingy matters but if you work out how to get it out let me know.

 

If you cleaned the side of the reservoir can you very easily see the brake fluid level, depending on the make, colour of the fluid when it was original, fresh and new it's not easy on my wife's Fabia Mk3.

 

Personally I like to regularly change the brake fluid and flush through plenty of fresh clean new fluid at each corner as part of the  bleeding process.  Farting around with the engine first is the wrong priority, brakes are always first.

 

Just one extra thing that just came to mind, very very rarely when I go to press the brakes the pedal will get stuck, and once I keep pushing it makes a loud *click* and begins to move again, completely forgot about since it hasn't happened in ages, also I decid d to take a quick look at the master cylinders from the footwell, the boot on the brake master cylinder looks damp and has some dirt stuck to it

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

If you cleaned the side of the reservoir can you very easily see the brake fluid level, depending on the make, colour of the fluid when it was original, fresh and new it's not easy on my wife's Fabia Mk3.

 

i tried looking through the side of the reservoir, also tried illuminating it with my phones flashlight to see it it helped but i couldnt fit my phone close enough, i couldnt make out a clear brake fluid level, the fluid level was just above the mesh filter when i took the cap off which seemed fine to me

Sounds like a master cylinder fault in which case.

 

To rule out rear brake adjustment, pull up the handbrake hard & pump the pedal (engine running) if it comes up and feels firmer then the rear brakes are not self adjusting properly.

 

Despite the numerous recieved wisdom you will read water content in the brakes whilst very undesirable will only be a problem if you brake so hard that you boil the fluid in the calipers, a system filled with water will give a rock hard pedal, don't ask how I know for sure!

 

Same deal with the oft repeated tale of spongy brake hoses, they are all reinforced and only if that were mechanically removed would they swell, plus the volume required to give a long or spongy pedal would be like watching a baloon inflate, its something put out by the sellers, ludicrously they trot out the same line regarding clutch flexible pipes where the system does not hydraulically lock like the brakes and the gullible who have been taken in even say how much better the clutch feels.

 

Most of our vehicles have a spindly plastic master cylinder pushrod which will shear if the clutch slave cylinder is mechanically locked or the end of the flexible pipe is clamped, I did this once by mistake and the pedal pressure to do so was barely above that to operate the clutch, the notion sold that the reinforced flexible pipes swell under the very limited operating pressure making the pedal spongy is inconceivable.

 

I should add that I used braided brake hoses on my competition vehicles but that was as much for show as for go, also you could at the time make them up yourself with various end fittings so make custom hoses for non standard brake calipers, the hydraulic clutch on my bike engined conversions etc, I seem to recall that they should have been an MOT failure at the time although most testers didn't, I can't recall the reasoning but it was a solid one.

Edited 17 December, 20214 yr by J.R.

4 hours ago, LightRobin said:

i tried looking through the side of the reservoir, also tried illuminating it with my phones flashlight to see it it helped but i couldnt fit my phone close enough, i couldnt make out a clear brake fluid level, the fluid level was just above the mesh filter when i took the cap off which seemed fine to me

Same with my wife's car, couldn't get a torch in a good position to see if fluid was to the line, that difficult to see anyway, car's too heavy to shake to see fluid wave and fluid too light and transparent - but same as you I took a level of the mesh filter.

 

 

5 hours ago, LightRobin said:

the boot on the brake master cylinder looks damp and has some dirt stuck to it

Do you mean inside the cabin, what is the damp and dirt, just wipe the dirt off - but be careful if it's in the cabin it could be anything, wear gloves. 🤣

 

If you can't see fluid anywhere else it could be the master leaking within itself, not sure of the ABS bit, have look round the back wheels and inside the drums, if there's damp see if it brake fluid damp.

 

5 hours ago, nta16 said:

Do you mean inside the cabin, what is the damp and dirt, just wipe the dirt off - but be careful if it's in the cabin it could be anything, wear gloves. 🤣

 

yes, inside the cabin, theres a rubber boot where the brake pushrod goes through, its looks damp around that area, not dripping or anything, i didnt think too much of it

8 hours ago, J.R. said:

To rule out rear brake adjustment, pull up the handbrake hard & pump the pedal (engine running) if it comes up and feels firmer then the rear brakes are not self adjusting properly.

tried this, brake pedal seemed to feel the same

 

8 hours ago, J.R. said:

Despite the numerous recieved wisdom you will read water content in the brakes whilst very undesirable will only be a problem if you brake so hard that you boil the fluid in the calipers, a system filled with water will give a rock hard pedal, don't ask how I know for sure!

This makes perfect sense to me, as well as ruling out the brake fluid being the culprit since ive had the pedal feel soft just after startup, (cold brakes) 

Thanks for all the help with the brakes but what about the clutch noises i talked about, any ideas what those could be?, would it most likely be just the clutch and throwout bearing or could the gearbox itself be on its way out?

 

18 hours ago, J.R. said:

Sounds like a master cylinder fault in which case.

Hopefully not, a new master cylinder will run 274eur not including installation (brake fluid ect) 🥴

Edited 18 December, 20214 yr by LightRobin

I bought several, - long story, the first was from TPS and if I had paid full retail would have been around £120, the others were pattern parts but identical including the VAG part number and were €18 each delivered.

 

I know we dont have the same vehicle but often the stuff is the same across all platforms, fitting became very easy after learning the first time.

49 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I know we dont have the same vehicle but often the stuff is the same across all platforms, fitting became very easy after learning the first time.

i wasnt even able to find the master cylinder on any of the usual websites, only on skoda-parts.com which sell at dealer prices from my experience. Maybe its the same part on older generations of polo/fabia but that would take some looking in to