Mk II Octy Estate - Variable rate springs OTHER than Bilstein??

[Carlston]

14 hours ago, Liger1956 said:

At one MOT recently the car failed due to a broken rear spring. I had not noticed as the MAD helper spring must have been taking the load and the car had not been loaded fully recently prior to the MOT.

 

Most coil springs break at the ends, often the last half a coil turn...hence why you didn't notice. The main difference would have been a small reduction in ride height but not much.

[Liger1956]

48 minutes ago, Carlston said:

 

Most coil springs break at the ends, often the last half a coil turn...hence why you didn't notice. The main difference would have been a small reduction in ride height but not much.

Most may but without knowing the facts in my case your statement as to the reason that I did not notice is false. The MAD spring was taking the load as mine fractured in the middle.

[Carlston]

35 minutes ago, Liger1956 said:

Most may but without knowing the facts in my case your statement as to the reason that I did not notice is false. The MAD spring was taking the load as mine fractured in the middle.

 

If the colour coding on that rear spring is 1 white dot and 2 yellow dots, then that's a 1K0511115BE rear spring which does seem on the soft side for an Octavia MK2 2.0TDI estate FWD with standard ride height.

 

A change to 1K0511115BG would have increased the weight range by two,

 

The soft rear springs problem was caused in 2006 when Skoda in their wisdom dropped the spring rates on the Octavia MK2 by two weight ranges. Hence by increasing the weight range of the rear springs by two, you would be going back to what Skoda had originally planned.

 

You can see the reduction in the weight range of the rear springs in the below chart, that is shown on Skoda 7zap until the 2008 model year.

 

Octavia MK2 FWD standard ride height rear springs 1JA

(1)	1K0 511 115 BD	coil spring 1 paint mark 1 paint mark D >> - 05.03.2006	white yellow	2	PR-1JA+0YB
(1)	1K0 511 115 BD	coil spring 1 paint mark 1 paint mark D - 06.03.2006>>	white yellow	2	PR-1JA+0YD
(1)	1K0 511 115 BE	coil spring 1 paint mark 2 paint marks D >> - 05.03.2006	white yellow	2	PR-1JA+0YC
(1)	1K0 511 115 BE	coil spring 1 paint mark 2 paint marks D - 06.03.2006>>	white yellow	2	PR-1JA+0YE
(1)	1K0 511 115 BF	coil spring 1 paint mark 3 paint marks D >> - 05.03.2006	white yellow	2	PR-1JA+0YD
(1)	1K0 511 115 BF	coil spring 1 paint mark 3 paint marks D - 06.03.2006>>	white yellow	2	PR-1JA+0YF
(1)	1K0 511 115 BG	coil spring 1 paint mark 1 paint mark D >> - 05.03.2006	white orange	2	PR-1JA+0YE
(1)	1K0 511 115 BG	coil spring 1 paint mark 1 paint mark D - 06.03.2006>>	white orange	2	PR-1JA+0YG

 

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/octavia/oct/2008-419/5/511-511001/

 

Notice that up until 5/3/2006 weight range 5 rear springs (build code 0YE) were 1K0511115BG, but from 6/3/2006 weight range 5 rear springs changed to 1K0511115BE. Hence the soft rear spring problem on Octavia MK2 cars that were manufactured on or after 6/3/2006.

 

Edited 27 April, 2022 by Carlston

[Carlston]

18 hours ago, jeallen01 said:

Having read the thread that I linked, then that's the conclusion that I also came to as the "..5BG" springs are definitely too hard for day-to-day use on the very poor roads we have in our part of London - OTOH, I may then have to get the MAD helper springs that someone linked in that thread as those might well provide the variable rate effect that I was seeking in my original post in this thread!

 

BTW: having them looked at various other springs that claim to be "equivalents" to the OEM VAG "..5BF" springs that are on offer, it was interesting and confusing that some of them actually appear to claim to be equivalent the "..5BF" but others to the "..5BG"!!!! VERY confusing, and so I'll have to be very careful as to which ones that  I buy!

 

Your 2007 Octavia MK2 2.0TDI estate FWD with standard ride height was probably manufactured on or after 6/3/2006 so may have originally been fitted with 1K0511115BD rear springs, ie. three weight ranges less than 1K0511115BG.

 

This could explain why you noticed the change to 1K0511115BG rear springs had made the car's ride harder.

 

Up until and including 5/3/2006 Skoda had been fitting rear springs that were two weight ranges softer. You can see this information on 7zap.

 

What works best for you could depend on what loads you carry plus personal preference. For example, someone who rarely carries rear seat passengers or much load in the back, maybe best with the softer springs that were fitted to the earlier cars, ie. perhaps 1K0511115BD or 1K0511115BE instead of 1K0511115BF or 1K0511115BG.

 

Edited 27 April, 2022 by Carlston

[jeallen01]

@Carlston

 

Many Thanks and that's what I have now concluded myself as the car was registered in July 2007,  and thus probably built well after the changeover date in early 2006 and thus originally had ...5BD springs.

 

Don't think I want to go back to those ...5BD springs unless I get get the MAD Helper springs (another £150!) , so maybe the ..5BE would a decent choice, i.e. stiffer than ..5BD but not so still as ..5BF (and certainly a lot softer than ..5BG!).

 

BTW: did Skoda ever make any further changes to the rear spring type prior to the major "model overhaul" in 2008 - and what then happened after 2008?

Edited 27 April, 2022 by jeallen01

[jeallen01]

2 hours ago, Liger1956 said:

Most may but without knowing the facts in my case your statement as to the reason that I did not notice is false. The MAD spring was taking the load as mine fractured in the middle.

 

When I replaced the original springs in 2016 there was no signs of any breakages - main reason for the change was because I'd been carrying a lot of heavy stuff in the load area for quite some time and the springs had been somewhat permanently compressed by that!

[Carlston]

2 hours ago, jeallen01 said:

...did Skoda ever make any further changes to the rear spring type prior to the major "model overhaul" in 2008 - and what then happened after 2008?

 

The 6/3/2006 is the only major change I've seen to the rear springs.

 

What springs are fitted is shown by the car's build codes, and sometimes also by the date of the car's manufacture.

[jeallen01]

31 minutes ago, Carlston said:

 

The 6/3/2006 is the only major change I've seen to the rear springs.

 

What springs are fitted is shown by the car's build codes, and sometimes also by the date of the car's manufacture.

Thanks again, but, although I took a pic of the build codes sticker and then analysed (line by line) each of the 2/3 alphanumeric codes on it, I couldn't pin down the spring type  originally fitted - which was part of the reason I posted the update and asked for more help a few days ago.

 

Also, as I asked several posts ago, were there any further changes to the spring type after the 2008 model update? I asked that because, last year, I had a rental and very late model (probably 2020/21) Octavia 1.6 TDI estate with torsion beam rear suspension, and found that the suspension "felt" very similar to the current setup on my own Oct estate, i.e. quite "hard", which surprised me somewhat.

Edited 27 April, 2022 by jeallen01

[Carlston]

28 minutes ago, jeallen01 said:

Thanks again, but, although I took a pic of the build codes sticker and then analysed (line by line) each of the 2/3 alphanumeric codes on it, I couldn't pin down the spring type  originally fitted - which was part of the reason I posted the update and asked for more help a few days ago.

 

Also, as I asked several posts ago, were there any further changes to the spring type after the 2008 model update? I asked that because, last year, I had a rental and very late model (probably 2020/21) Octavia 1.6 TDI estate with torsion beam rear suspension, and found that the suspension "felt" very similar to the current setup on my own Oct estate, i.e. quite "hard", which surprised me somewhat.

 

The build codes on the white sticker/label in the spare wheel well area only show about 20 of the build codes. There are around 180 build codes, so most of them aren't shown on the sticker.

 

To get your full list of build codes you could use erWin. It costs about 7 Euros for 1 hour's access and is apparently enough time to print out the build codes.

 

I was talking about the Octavia MK2, not the MK3.

 

Unlike the MK2, the Octavia MK3 doesn't have multilink rear suspension except for the VRS and 4x4 models. You can see that information on 7zap.

 

Edited 27 April, 2022 by Carlston

[jeallen01]

8 minutes ago, Carlston said:

 

The build codes on the white sticker/label in the spare wheel well area only show about 20 of the build codes. There are around 180 build codes, so most of them aren't shown on the sticker.

 

To get your full list of build codes you could use erWin. It cost about 7 Euros for 1 hour's access and is apparently enough time to print out the build codes.

 

I was talking about the Octavia MK2, not the MK3.

 

Unlike the MK2, the Octavia MK3 doesn't have multilink rear suspension except for the VRS and 4x4 models. You can see that information on 7zap.

 

Thanks again, and I may well try to get the info from erWin (never tried that before, so "I may be a while").

 

As for the Mk 3, from what I read previously on this forum, I seem to remember reading that torsion beam was used on the models with engines up to 1.5l but multilink was fitted to those with larger engines (apart from, obviously, the 1.6l TDI) and thus I assumed that that was/is also used on the non-VRS/4x4 2l models .

[jeallen01]

Update

 

As reported in another thread I started a week ago, I had to get the springs and other bits replaced by the local Mr Clutch branch (in Hayes, W London) and they fitted the pair of Killen 63117 (basically equivalent to VAG 1K051115B E/F according to the spec, and thus several "grades" softer than the BG ones that were causing a lot of the ride problems) and also a set of Febi 18380 bumpstops which, at 105mm long, are noticeably shorter than the 133mm ones which are standard for this vehicle, plus new top & bottom spring seats (and thus less compressed than the original old ones!).

 

Nb: I'd fitted shorter than standard bumpstops with the Mk IV Golf estate I had before the Octy.  That had stiffer rear springs and was quite stiff, but fitting the shorter bumpstops gave the springs more compression distance before they started taking effect, and certainly softened the ride - that's why I went the same route with the Octy this time around.

 

As a result, having driven it over a few bits of moderate rough (by town standards!) local roads and several full roadwidth speed bumps, I'm glad to say that the ride is a lot more comfortable on road surfaces like that.

 

On reflection, my ageing back getting worse apart, I think the recent Koni Special Active Rear Dampers together with the new 133mm bumpstops fitted at the same time had a lot to do with making the ride even "less forgiving" with the BG springs than it had been before they were fitted! Win some, lose some!

Edited 23 June, 2022 by jeallen01

[Carlston]

2 hours ago, jeallen01 said:

Update

 

As reported in another thread I started a week ago, I had to get the springs and other bits replaced by the local Mr Clutch branch (in Hayes, W London) and they fitted the pair of Killen 63117 (basically equivalent to VAG 1K051115B E/F according to the spec, and thus several "grades" softer than the BG ones that were causing a lot of the ride problems) and also a set of Febi 18380 bumpstops which, at 105mm long, are noticeably shorter than the 133mm ones which are standard for this vehicle, plus new top & bottom spring seats (and thus less compressed than the original old ones!).

 

Nb: I'd fitted shorter than standard bumpstops with the Mk IV Golf estate I had before the Octy.  That had stiffer rear springs and was quite stiff, but fitting the shorter bumpstops gave the springs more compression distance before they started taking effect, and certainly softened the ride - that's why I went the same route with the Octy this time around.

 

As a result, having driven it over a few bits of moderate rough (by town standards!) local roads and several full roadwidth speed bumps, I'm glad to say that the ride is a lot more comfortable on road surfaces like that.

 

On reflection, my ageing back getting worse apart, I think the recent Koni Special Active Rear Dampers together with the new 133mm bumpstops fitted at the same time had a lot to do with making the ride even "less forgiving" with the BG springs than it had been before they were fitted! Win some, lose some!

 

Fitting bump stops with a height of 105mm instead of the correct 133mm ones seems a bit extreme as that's 28mm more suspension travel. The car's not made to have that much suspension travel. There's a risk of damage to various parts of the car including the shock absorber, wheelarch, etc. You might get lucky and not damage anything, but there's a risk.

 

I would have considered 118mm bump stops from the lowered/sports suspension models (ie. 15mm lower suspension) including the RS models.

 

118mm bump stop 3C0511359B

(2)

3C0 511 359 B

stop buffer D - 02.05.2006>>

118MM round

2

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/octavia/oct/2007-419/5/511-511021/#2

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/febi-bilstein/1881025

 

133mm bump stop 3C0511359

(2)

3C0 511 359

stop buffer D - 03.05.2006>>

133MM

2

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/octavia/oct/2007-419/5/511-511001/

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/topran/7066868

 

Edited 23 June, 2022 by Carlston

[jeallen01]

Carlston

 

In most circumstances I would agree that a 28mm reduction would be “a bit extreme” but, prior to that, it felt like there was virtually no suspension travel at all before it went “solid” – even a small ripple / very minor pothole would cause result in a real hit to my spine, as well as an audible thump!

 

Therefore I took the decision to soften the springs, and to fit the 28mm shorter bumpstops as I felt that anything less probably wouldn’t give enough travel for the required comfort  - that was based on my previous experience with shortened bumpstops  on the Golf estate (and maybe I also fitted shorter ones to earlier shocks fitted to the Octy – can’t actually remember for certain??) . Remember also that the new Koni shocks are somewhat soft for the first few mm of travel but then stiffen up quite noticeably, and that I had fitted a VRS/GTI rear ARB several years ago and that had noticeably stiffened  up the rear suspension on its own.

 

And, so far (cross fingers) it seems to be working

Edited 23 June, 2022 by jeallen01