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Mk II Octy Estate - Variable rate springs OTHER than Bilstein??

jeallen01
in Skoda Octavia Mk2 (2004 - 2013)

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Good morning

 

I think it's about time for a springs & shocks update and I know Bilstein do full front and rear spring & shock sets - but ATM I want to concentra ONLY on the rear for both "need" and cost reasons in view of a house move and thus carrying heavy loads in the back at times later this year.

 

In that context, I'd like to get a set of variable rate springs and adjustable shocks for the rear end ONLY (Fronts may follow later!) - so can anyone point me towards a brand/supplier that could provide those?

 

Thanks in advance - and Happy New Year!

  • Author
8 hours ago, Carlston said:

These are standard rear springs for the Octavia MK2 Estate 2.0TDI.

 

Kilen 63118 (OEM part number 1K0511115BG)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/323693514969?epid=248980682&hash=item4b5da310d9%3Ag%3AcUIAAOSww35cZE7X&LH_ItemCondition=1000

Thanks but that's not what I'm looking for - which are variable rate springs, & preferably around standard height, or only a slight drop because of the likely quite variable loads there from almost nothing in the back to "quite a lot" in the back.

By Variable rate do you mean progressive springs or adjustable?

  • Author
1 hour ago, robt100 said:

By Variable rate do you mean progressive springs or adjustable?

The former where the coil spacing varies along the length of the spring, such that the initial compression is quite "soft" but then stiffens up as the spring is compressed further.

https://www.rtecshop.co.uk/eibach-pro-kit-lowering-springs-for-skoda-octavia-ii-1z5-station-wagon/prod_1502802.html

I'd suggest the Eibach kit, its only 30mm lowered off standard suspension and has a progressive rate, had them on my octy along with the Bilstein B4 shocks and used to carry a full boot everywhere without any rear sag. Compliant at normal speeds, nice and stiff/taught at higher load cornering situations. Sadly all spring kits come as a full 4 wheel kit, unless you find someone selling 2nd hand or breaking a car I think all 4 is the only option

    • Like 1
    • Author
    On 09/01/2022 at 22:52, robt100 said:

    https://www.rtecshop.co.uk/eibach-pro-kit-lowering-springs-for-skoda-octavia-ii-1z5-station-wagon/prod_1502802.html

    I'd suggest the Eibach kit, its only 30mm lowered off standard suspension and has a progressive rate, had them on my octy along with the Bilstein B4 shocks and used to carry a full boot everywhere without any rear sag. Compliant at normal speeds, nice and stiff/taught at higher load cornering situations. Sadly all spring kits come as a full 4 wheel kit, unless you find someone selling 2nd hand or breaking a car I think all 4 is the only option

    Thanks for the info, and sorry for the long delay in replying but we have a lot of "family problems" relating to my (more than me!) elderly and very stupid brother-in-law to deal with ATM - will get back to this issue when I have more "free time"!

    • Author
    On 13/01/2022 at 23:53, MicMac said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtnTH3yNTGI

    Thanks and that looks a bit like those " rubber spring helpers" that you (used to be able to??) buy to insert between the coils of coil springs to stiffen them up when carrying heavy loads - looks like they act a bit like variable rate springs, but I assume you'd have to start with fairly soft standard length springs that haven't already compressed in use.

    NB: took a look at the video out of interest, but not yet ready to actually do anything about the car.

     

    OTOH, would a "coilover" solution work as well or better, and if so then can anyone suggest suppliers (in the UK) which might be worth trying?

     

     

    • 4 weeks later...
    • Author

    Slight update - after having to put further action on hold for nearly a month, I took another look at the whole situation and finally phoned and discussed the rear springs/ARB/shock issues with the UK Koni importers -> they recommended Koni "Special Active"  rear shocks (P/N 8045-1084 - FWIW)  and so I ordered a pair from DC Performance (see below! 😀) and they arrived a couple of hours ago - hopefully to be fitted sometime next week.

     

    Then, this morning, and having now found at least one thread on this forum about the "Special Active" shocks and peoples' experiences with them, it would appear - and I really hope - that I have probably now made the correct decision for my requirements, but "time will tell" ????????

     

    BTW: the chap at the Koni importers said that the 4 companies at the top of their website list of dealers were their main outlets, and that, ATM, they seemed to be competing at how to make the least profit from selling Koni stuff!!!!! -> DC Performance then seemed to be winning that "race at" £173.52 the pair, inc 24hr DPD delivery, and so they got the order!😉

    Edited by jeallen01

    • 2 weeks later...
    • Author

    Further update:

    I had the rear "Special Active" shocks (and  new FEBI estate bumpstops) fitted last week and the ride at the rear over small ripples in the road surface as certainly improved considerably, although it's still quite "solid" over larger bumps etc, and there's even less roll at the rear when going round bends (NB: I fitted a GTI/VRS rear ARB several years ago).

     

    I'm now considering having the front shocks (and top mounts/bearings) changed and again the "Special Active" ones  could be in the frame - so does anyone have any more comments/info on that option?

    BTW: I did contact the importer again to ask about the difference between the "standard" Special Active shocks P/N 8745-1006 and the P/N 8745-1038  ones quoted for the “Skoda Octavia 2, HD Susp. & 4x4, Sedan & Combi Koni Special-Active” - and the reply was that "The dampers for the model with HD suspension ie VRS model are a little bit firmer than the ones for the regular models, as they have firmer springs" - In which case I would be sticking with the "standard" ones!

    Thanks in advance.

    On 14/01/2022 at 00:53, MicMac said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtnTH3yNTGI

     

    Where can I buy one of the lift kits for the vehicle jack that he is using at 5 minutes in?

    @J.R.

    Roxolid by Ecotools, available from your local garden centre/builders skip.

    2 hours ago, jeallen01 said:

    ...I did contact the importer again to ask about the difference between the "standard" Special Active shocks P/N 8745-1006 and the P/N 8745-1038  ones quoted for the “Skoda Octavia 2, HD Susp. & 4x4, Sedan & Combi Koni Special-Active” - and the reply was that "The dampers for the model with HD suspension ie VRS model are a little bit firmer than the ones for the regular models, as they have firmer springs" - In which case I would be sticking with the "standard" ones!...

     

    The VRS doesn't have HD (Heavy Duty) suspension. It has sports/lowered suspension.

     

    You can see the difference on the "skoda online parts catalogue", where the rear suspension is coded either 1JA, 1JB, or 1JC.

     

    Standard Rear Shock Absorbers 1JA

    7 1K0 513 029 ER gas shock absorber rear 2

     

    Heavy Duty Rear Shock Absorbers 1JB

    7 1K0 513 029 ET gas shock absorber
    D >> - 24.05.2009     		rear 2    
    7 1K0 513 029 MQ gas shock absorber
    D - 25.05.2009>>     		rear 2

     

    Sports Rear Shock Absorbers 1JC

    7 1K0 513 029 GB gas shock absorber rear 2 PR-1JC

     

    Skoda online parts catalogue

    https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/octavia/oct/2012-663/5/

     

    VW Codes Decoder

    1JA = Rear shock absorption, basic design 1
    1JB = Rear shock absorption for rough-road design (Heavy Duty)
    1JC = Rear shock absorption for sports design (Lowered)

    http://igorweb.org/equidec.aspx

     

    The front suspension is coded either 2UA, 2UB, or 2UC

    2UA = Standard design
    2UB = Rough-road design (Heavy Duty)
    2UC = Sports version (Lowered)
    https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/octavia/oct/2012-663/4/

     

    Edited by Carlston

    So you have neither changed the springs for variable rate or stiffer ones and expect "Special Active" shock absorbers to support the additional weight of a heavily loaded vehicle?

     

    They may make a contribution to ride comfort in transient conditions but are not going to prevent the vehicle on standard springs from dragging its backside like a dog with worms when heavily loaded.

    Edited by J.R.

    • Author
    27 minutes ago, J.R. said:

    So you have neither changed the springs for variable rate or stiffer ones and expect "Special Active" shock absorbers to support the additional weight of a heavily loaded vehicle?

     

    They may make a contribution to ride comfort in transient conditions but are not going to prevent the vehicle on stndard springs from dragging its backside like a dog with worms.

    Not a very constructive or helpful comment, and not based on the actual vehicle and situation, I must say!

     

    Before getting those shocks I phoned the importer to question their suitability for my vehicle, and was told quite clearly that they were designed to, and would, work fine with standard springs and ARB, and also with the stiffer GTI/VRS bar - and the car is absolutely NOT "dragging its backside like a dog with worms"!

    • Author
    44 minutes ago, Carlston said:

     

    "The VRS doesn't have HD (Heavy Duty) suspension. It has sports/lowered suspension."

    FYI, I quoted the exact words written by Trevor Leigh, General Manager of Performance Parts RFT (the Koni importer), in the email reply to myself a few days ago - so any "error" was his and not mine.

    I'm sure they do indeed work fine with your standard rear springs that you correctly felt were not suitable for your future heavily laden journeys. They remain unsuitable and the new dampers will not have changed that.

     

    A shame because had you found variable rate springs you would have had a very good solution.

    1 minute ago, jeallen01 said:

    FYI, I quoted the exact words written by Trevor Leigh, General Manager of Performance Parts RFT (the Koni importer), in the email reply to myself a few days ago - so any "error" was his and not mine.

    He did a good job on you.

    According to autodoc, the Koni 8745-1006 front shock absorbers can replace the following OEM part numbers, (ie. they use a one size fits all approach):

    https://www.autodoc.co.uk/koni/12776049?search=KONI Shock Absorber (8745-1006)

     

    Edited by Carlston

    • 1 month later...
    • Author

    Long time since previous update (& ignoring my original question and the directly related replies which are no longer really relevant - but thanks for those anyway👍) ,  the estate (1Z5 chassis) is now fitted with:

     

    - The original Std OEM front springs & Koni 8745-1006 Special Active Front shocks (+ new Febi complete top mounts & bearings) + std front ARB

     

    - Replacement KYB RH6788 rear springs & Koni 8045-1084 Special Active rear dampers + new FEBI 13078 rear bumpstop kit & protective cover + a Mk V Golf GTI 1KO 511 305 DF Rear ARB

     

    It drives and rides much more nicely and quietly than before (the old front shocks passed the MoT with no Advisories earlier this week, before the Konis were fitted, but rattled & banged badly over any sort of small bump!) - except for the rear end which still seems slightly too stiff and bangs quite a bit over small bumps

     

    I suspect that a lot of the latter is due to the KYB springs which I fitted in 2016, and which immediately felt to be a little "stiffer" than the previous VAG OEM springs (Which ever version they were), and probably aren't needed as much as before because I fitted the GTI ARB at a later date, and the new Koni rear dampers were fitted a few weeks ago

     

    Now, knowing a bit more about the rear suspension setup, I have found that the KYB RH6788 springs appear to be equivalent to VAG 1K0511115BG springs, and I'm wondering if that spec spring is stiffer than that of the springs originally fitted to the vehicle - but unfortunately I don't know what the latter actually were as I disposed of them after the KYBs were fitted!

     

    Therefore I wonder if anyone here does know, or can check, what the OEM rear springs are  for a 1Z5 estate chassis with the "standard" L13 suspension spec ("Suspension range 13 installation control only, no requirement forecast, 631-670 KG") & 2UA (standard) height spec, & with the "55mm" damper size - & specifically if it might have been one of the 1K0511115BC to BF range, some of which appear to be slightly thinner coil springs (thus "softer")  than the ...BG version?

     

    FYI, to help identify the springs fitted, the paint colour codes for the 1K0511115BC to BG springs appear to be as follows:

    image.png.603eb8f760e6afbacc3fd5793ca30400.png

     

    Thanks in advance for any help or leads that you can give.

     

     

    Edited by jeallen01

    • Author

    FWIW, I think I found the info that I need in this thread "Sagging Rear Suspension"

    1 hour ago, jeallen01 said:

    FWIW, I think I found the info that I need in this thread "Sagging Rear Suspension"

     

    1K0511115BF is recommended in the optimal-germany.com online coil spring catalogue for the Octavia MK2 Estate 2.0TDI Front-Wheel-Drive without towbar. It's 1K051115BG if the estate has a towbar, which is about 5% stiffer than 1K0511115BF.

    https://www.optimal-germany.com/media-center/downloads/kataloge

    https://www.optimal-germany.com/docs/default-source/catalogues-documents/wbm-3011.pdf?sfvrsn=ac821103_10

     

    Sachs 996653 is one brand that matches 1K0511115BF

    • Author
    35 minutes ago, Carlston said:

     

    1K0511115BF is recommended in the optimal-germany.com online coil spring catalogue for the Octavia MK2 Estate 2.0TDI Front-Wheel-Drive without towbar. It's 1K051115BG if the estate has a towbar, which is about 5% stiffer than 1K0511115BF.

    https://www.optimal-germany.com/media-center/downloads/kataloge

    https://www.optimal-germany.com/docs/default-source/catalogues-documents/wbm-3011.pdf?sfvrsn=ac821103_10

     

    Sachs 996653 is one brand that matches 1K0511115BF

    Having read the thread that I linked, then that's the conclusion that I also came to as the "..5BG" springs are definitely too hard for day-to-day use on the very poor roads we have in our part of London - OTOH, I may then have to get the MAD helper springs that someone linked in that thread as those might well provide the variable rate effect that I was seeking in my original post in this thread!

     

    BTW: having them looked at various other springs that claim to be "equivalents" to the OEM VAG "..5BF" springs that are on offer, it was interesting and confusing that some of them actually appear to claim to be equivalent the "..5BF" but others to the "..5BG"!!!! VERY confusing, and so I'll have to be very careful as to which ones that  I buy!

    Edited by jeallen01

    I have the MAD helper springs fitted to my Octavia II Estate. I fitted them for when we were towing our caravan, which we have now sold.  If I remember correctly they did raise the rear of the car a little but the overall ride was not much different. Even with a boot load of holiday stuff and the caravan on the back I never had the car bottom out. At one MOT recently the car failed due to a broken rear spring. I had not noticed as the MAD helper spring must have been taking the load and the car had not been loaded fully recently prior to the MOT.

    16 hours ago, jeallen01 said:

    Having read the thread that I linked, then that's the conclusion that I also came to as the "..5BG" springs are definitely too hard for day-to-day use on the very poor roads we have in our part of London - OTOH, I may then have to get the MAD helper springs that someone linked in that thread as those might well provide the variable rate effect that I was seeking in my original post in this thread!

     

    BTW: having them looked at various other springs that claim to be "equivalents" to the OEM VAG "..5BF" springs that are on offer, it was interesting and confusing that some of them actually appear to claim to be equivalent the "..5BF" but others to the "..5BG"!!!! VERY confusing, and so I'll have to be very careful as to which ones that  I buy!

     

    You do have to be careful with aftermarket springs if you want to match a particular OEM part number, which is why I check the listings on autodoc even if I then purchase elsewhere.

     

    The aftermarket spring market is filled with springs that are sold to replace more than one OEM part number, ie. a one size fits all approach. If a seller is listing other OEM part numbers then it's unlikely that the spring will match your OEM part number.

     

    On autodoc you have to click on the spring's listing to see all the OEM part numbers that the spring is sold to replace. The concept of "this spring will fit your car" is very different from "this spring will match the OEM part number that you want".

     

    I'm not a fan of using spring helpers, ie. an additional spring fitted inside the main spring. This is a bodge, and an imprecise way of going about things. As someone has already noted, it increases the ride height. It also doesn't give you a variable rate spring as both the main spring and the helper spring are linear.

     

    I would only consider a helper spring if a suitable replacement main spring wasn't available. However, this isn't the case with most Skoda cars. If you want a firmer spring, just go up one or two weight ranges.

     

    1K0511115BF and 1K0511115BG have a very similar specification including 11.75mm wire diameter. The main difference is in the number of coil turns. 1K0511115BG gets its increased stiffness by reducing its number of coil turns, ie. 7.75 coil turns instead of 8 coil turns. You can just about make this out in the two photos below.

     

    1K0511115BF (8 coil turns)

    thumb?id=7445405&m=0&n=0&lng=en&ccf=94077826

    https://www.autodoc.co.uk/spidan/7445405

     

    1K0511115BG (7.75 coil turns)

    thumb?id=7445756&m=0&n=0&lng=en&ccf=94077826

    https://www.autodoc.co.uk/spidan/7445756

     

    Edited by Carlston

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