It is in the Electric Car Section but might help members if here. 

 

Passengers carried and steamed up interiors is just pure stupidity IMO but how some do seem to have EV's as they drive about.

 

 

 

 

I’ve got a roof box and a roof bike carrier. I can live with losing 30ish miles of range when using them.

I often leave just the roof bars on (genuine Skoda) and they don’t seem to make any difference to the range. I only take them off as they slightly increase the noise, the car is so quiet without them.

Pretty obvious results. No different to loading up an ICE car, mpg will reduce.

Cold weather really does not have as much of an affect on an ICE vehicles range if not just doing a short cold start trip.

& once having an ICE up to temp keeping the cabin comfy and the windows not steamed up and the interior maybe getting damp by use of Climate / AC before stopping means after the car is parked up and even more steamy or the interior glass frozen at the next trip is not that much of an issue.

 

 

It is good to see some Vlogger actually showing the difference.

The best figure he gets is not as good Miles per kWh as other show they get.

Good to see that with People in the Car the drop was not too much but if 4 or 5 in a car it would be good to see 100kg in the boot as though they were on their way to might a flight or ship and off on holiday / transported, and with AC on. 

2 or 3 bikes on the roof or rear rack & 2 or 3 people in a Family Size car and the efficiency is the type of figures people do need to know and not just the WLTP and use common sense that when colder or a heavier load the car will not go so far.

Not everyone has common sense even when looking at ICE vehicles.   There range per tank is reduced, maybe just not to 3 hours of travel before needing to get more in. 

 

......................

I would like to see, what might be some peoples real world in a good winter.

4 people in the car Ski / Board rack on the roof with skis / boards, all gear / luggage in the boot for a days fun on the slopes,

temperature outside about freezing, winter tyres on, cars AC on, no steamy windows.

 

Maybe someone has driven in that circumstances.

So drive to a Scottish Ski centre, maybe charge before getting there depending how far you are travelling and the car parked all day with people maybe in the car at some point / lunch break, 

damp stuff / people back in the car at end of day and then trip home / to apres ski or accommodation.

?

What miles per kWh did that get?

 

 

Edited 11 February, 20224 yr by roottoot

There are so many real world variables.

I can tell weight doesn’t make much difference as I’ve done the same journeys with just me or with 3 adult passengers and a full boot and the range achieved was practically the same. 

If you get a long downhill section it will barely use any energy to maintain 70, and with some regen you can go miles with range not dropping at all.

One thing I always try and do is preheat or precool it 30 minutes before a long journey while plugged in. What I won’t do is drive slowly or tailgate lorries. I leave the Aircon on auto all year round. 
 

 

 

For a family of 2 adults and 2 children and bikes then a Trailer for the bikes might be the best plan.

That will not have the same affect as a caravan has sitting high behind the car.

 

For those thinking of towing a caravan or trailer behind an EV in Scotland they need to think and plan exactly were they can charge with a caravan or trailer still hitched as they are rather rare. 

 

I draft lorries and coaches,  I do not tailgate them, i can see their mirrors and they can see me.  

Just as i have done for decades with ICE vehicles when hypermiling, and with DSG's with Coasting Function. Easy to see how you get a tow and the RPM drops or the energy used with a EV.

With a small battery EV car like i have it makes a big difference if you get behind the right vehicle and i might be doing 10 mph faster than i would be doing if having to eek out range to a charging hub in Scotland. 

Pre Heating is lovely but in winter away someplace just parked where you are doing what you are doing that is not always going to be possible.

Real World.

Edited 11 February, 20224 yr by roottoot

I’m not against hypermiling, I just personally can’t be bothered. I’m keeping it as plan C if ever I need to find a third charger miles from home !

Nothing sums up the weird motoring world better than when I pass a some M series BMW or powerful Audi doing 56mph for miles behind a lorry, whilst I’m simultaneously passed by a Fiat 500 doing 85mph….

Once Charge Place Scotland and BP Pulse can be bothered to have Charge Hubs and Chargers more reliable and actually able to provide a charge then Plan A or B might mean no need to go to plan C and be on the Red before getting to C and even it is Out of Service. 

I get peed off at being passed on the way to a charging Hub by a going pretty quick Tesla / Audi to find it then charging and they are going to leave the car overnight on that only 50 kWh charger or for many hours.  * Free to charge and no time penalty.* Not where there is a limited time and a charge to charge.

Not so common with those with smaller batteries i find.

 

PS. 

I am not going to draft something doing 56 mph in a 60 or 70 mph speed limit road even the Average Speed Camera routes.

I find Coaches and some HGV's on certain Routes are on or above the National Speed Limit for a car where they can be and especially on the likes of the M8, M9 and parts of the A9 and going faster than i would be going keeping to the NSL for a car or just below to get a bit further before charging or to get home.

You get to know which Haulage Company whos vehicles cross the Irish Sea nip on and seem to run under different traffic laws and which Coaches are of the length that allows them to be getting a shift on intercity.

 

...............

Jag drivers often rather ignorant as well.  At least now there are 3 available in Auchterarder now, when there was only 1 a Tesla would sit on it all night, if not doing the same in Dunblane.

 

Middle,

seemingly a couple of these CPS 50 kWh's are now in operation at Edinburgh Airport after even the single old one was also OOO. 

(The lights were on but nobody was in!)

Bottom,

 

M8 Hearthill Services. 

Try Quick charging here with your caravan on.  Actually try getting near 100 kWh charge on a 125 kWh charger, or even near 50kWh.

(A caravan on trailer could stay hitched here if the car has a front / front wing charging port.)

Lots of charger cables are not long enough if a rear port and there is a towbar bike carrier and bikes on and a rear port.

 

Edited 11 February, 20224 yr by roottoot

1 hour ago, classic said:

If you get a long downhill section it will barely use any energy to maintain 70,

 

It will have used it to gain the altitude beforehand.

 

Someone on here re-educated in my thinking that with an ICE most of the energy consumed in climbing a hill could be saved by coasting down the other side, mechanical losses aside. I was wrong because of the poor thermal efficiency of an ICE, most of the energy would have been lost as heat, that is where EV's have a real advantage, the extra they consume gaining altitude will indeed be saved by no consumption when losing it.

1 hour ago, roottoot said:

 

You get to know which Haulage Company whos vehicles cross the Irish Sea nip on and seem to run under different traffic laws and which Coaches are of the length that allows them to be getting a shift on intercity.

 

 

I think you will find that the regulations for UK trucks and coaches and European trucks and coaches are the same, even though we have withdrawn from the EU. Speed limiters should be the same, although it is possible that the agencies in some countries are more lax in applying the law. Just like in many cars with speed limiters, these do not apply the brakes going downhill, so it is possible for a lorry to exceed 56mph and a coach 60mph.

@J.R. with the like of going around the East Coast 250 it makes a difference if going clockwise rather than anti clockwise.  Cyclists  doing the Cairn O Mount know,. Or in many other places where they are aware of power / energy output and routes/ climbs.  This year's Tour of Britain as an example.  Stonehaven to Aberdeen on the route they did were short sharp climbs, the reverse trip is longer climbs to the same heights and short recovery on the steep descents.     From the south climb 7 miles and use 25 miles of range maybe in an EV but then the regen over the next 23 miles can have you recharged.  Then climb again and more down hill or flat to the coast roads.  Same on the A93 over Glenshee.  Climb from Blairgowrie, get to Deeside, head to the coast and home and less energy used than doing it to the coast first then home.    Just real world stuff that people get to know about.    I he have over 5 decades done the roads by bike, moped, m/bike, car, van, towing etc and now by EV.  I know which directions are efficient power wise. 

Edited 11 February, 20224 yr by roottoot

@Routemaster the speed for coaches of different lengths are not the same in England / Wales as in Scotland.  Best you get to know these things.  Then HGV max speed limits were part of a pilot scheme on the A9 as they were and maybe still different from elsewhere in the UK.    I can tell you the company HGV,s from the island of Ireland that do not stay withing the HGV speed limits on the A77 to and from Cairnryan and I expect others can.  Maybe HGV drivers.     The A9 Stirling to Perth is not a motorway and had average speed cameras the 23 miles.   Coasting in the draft of a coach for the 23 miles saved me lots of fuel over the years and is get to the charge hub in Dunblane or Stirling if I get behind the right coach.   That is the same Stirling to Perth by the way.   Get behind the right vehicles and in the eddy and you might not even need the wipers on so much.    I sometimes take a longer route from stating off because I will get to where I am going having used less electric and been no slower. Or have not needed to charge as long when getting onto a charger to continue. 

Edited 11 February, 20224 yr by roottoot

I think if carwow did the same tests with the nearest comparable diesel or petrol vehicle, it would be more interesting. 
Over 80,000 odd miles my 1.4 Octavia averaged 42 mpg, maybe if I had rationed the Aircon or done 60mph on motorways I could have averaged 50mpg and saved some fuel.

I guess a diesel would cope with a caravan better, the roof load tests would be similar and the everything switched on tests would be better for ice engines as they generate so much heat whether you want it or not.

Longer range, better charger network and faster charge times would make this type of rest irrelevant as no would care, like they don’t with a petrol or diesel.
I knew with the Octavia that if I had my roof box on or cycles I would use more fuel, but I didn’t care as it was a few more quid on the cost of that day out which I didn’t mind paying for. The cost with an ev is maybe an extra 30 to 60 minutes on a charger and the effort of working out which one. I don’t mind this, but I can see why most people would mind.

Edited 11 February, 20224 yr by classic

Bloggers in the USA have tested Tesla,s on mountain routes and regen.  Also MINI electrics.  Pretty pathetic range with them.    Still waiting to see an EV towing a trailer with a second battery pack in it to power the car.   Are the losses or trailer weight greater than what the battery can benefit the car. A dynamo system on the trailer might well make the trailer less easy to roll along even on flat roads but the top can have solar panels on as some Eletric bike long distance riders are using towing trailers with batteries.     Same with EV HGV,s really. Carry less pay load but more battery to get the journey done non stop.  

Edited 11 February, 20224 yr by roottoot

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

 

It will have used it to gain the altitude beforehand.

 

Someone on here re-educated in my thinking that with an ICE most of the energy consumed in climbing a hill could be saved by coasting down the other side, mechanical losses aside. I was wrong because of the poor thermal efficiency of an ICE, most of the energy would have been lost as heat, that is where EV's have a real advantage, the extra they consume gaining altitude will indeed be saved by no consumption when losing it.

It will have used energy to gain the altitude but an EV will recover some energy on the way back down whereas the best an ICE powered vehicle could do is not use any by switching off and coasting.

Edited 11 February, 20224 yr by classic

But I could get 730 miles out of my TDI DSG with coasting function enabled doing the same trips across the Cairngorm routes back and fore but 630 more often when trying without using coasting.  The same time taken.  But then that was the last of the Great Defeat Device TDI,s  that struggled to do 25 mpg with cold starts, short trips.    No switching off was involved.  You had Coasting enabled or not and if enabled keep your toe off the accelerator when possible. Same as with an EV.     I find Cruise Control uses more energy on the 23 miles Perth / Stirling either direction as not the same regen as just driving and being aware when to coast.  I watch the indicator showing blue or green and with CC set very seldom does it go blue. Stays Grey.   None used, none gained.    Same as some ICE vehicles really CC is less fuel efficient as it keeps power on to hold speed, not all are bad though.. 

Edited 11 February, 20224 yr by roottoot

35 minutes ago, classic said:

It will have used energy to gain the altitude but an EV will recover some energy on the way back down whereas the best an ICE powered vehicle could do is not use any by switching off and coasting.

You have simply repeated my statement, the word I used for the ICE vehicle on downhill was "saved"

With all due respect, what you said was :

“that is where EV's have a real advantage, the extra they consume gaining altitude will indeed be saved by no consumption when losing it.”

 

I have added to that the information that an ev can also gain some energy by regeneration. “an EV will recover some energy on the way back down ”.

Just to be pedantic, micro hybid (i.e. any ICE with stop/start), MHEV and PHEV will also recover some energy on the way down, and even under braking with engine still in gear connected to the wheels.

Maybe not a great deal of energy though that depends on several factors

In all cases including EV it depends on whether the gradient is enough to overcome rolling and aerodynamic resistance and braking/regen is required to stop the car picking up speed.

 

 

When the down hill is long enough and the roads and corners good then speed is not an issue with many EV's with 90 mph or so top speeds and you can use regen braking with paddles or gearstick to give more reduction in speed if needed.

 

Sea to the mountains and back to the sea.

Edited 11 February, 20224 yr by roottoot