4 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

 

Wow, why is there silicon sealant in your head gasket joint?

 

29 minutes ago, Kharl said:

 

 

I would expect a diesel head gasket to be MLS because of the very high compression ratio.

4 hours ago, Kharl said:

it is very similar to the situations,

And yet totally different because all VAG 1.9D engines are designed and engineered to use OAT coolant. OAT had not even been invented when the RR Phantom 3 wend out of production, and you should only ever ethylene glycol in an RR Phantom engine.

 

As the saying goes "get a clue"! Your quoted RR forum poster needs one too.

7 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

And yet totally different because all VAG 1.9D engines are designed and engineered to use OAT coolant. OAT had not even been invented when the RR Phantom 3 wend out of production, and you should only ever ethylene glycol in an RR Phantom engine.

 

As the saying goes "get a clue"! Your quoted RR forum poster needs one too.

I am aware, different cars different era, similar sympton, called to the former skoda dealer here and they told me they dont sell OAT coolants for skodas in this country for that reason....

 

Is what the dealer say...

 

Btw the outside  air temperature of the car reads 35 celcius, the car ia under a tree

 

4 minutes ago, Kharl said:

the former skoda dealer here and they told me they dont sell OAT coolants for skodas

Ooohhkaaay!  What colour was the coolant in the engine when you first bought the car, before you started this swaparama, and after each swap?

58 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Ooohhkaaay!  What colour was the coolant in the engine when you first bought the car, before you started this swaparama, and after each swap?

Dont get the point,

 

Color is not a rule to know which type of coolant is, many brands follow a standard but many others dont

When i bough the car it had green coolant, but i swapped engine, which also had green coolant, the coolant the dealer suggested is a G13, which is the same as g12 and g12 plus BUT without the ethyl glycol and and WAY better rust protection,, that btw the g12 is not good in that part. you can continue using your OAT coolant but the most i do a targeted search, most information i found against OAT.
 

Quote

G13 contains some silicate additives for that additional healing aluminium protection. This is contrary to some earlier specifications that use OAT-technology (Organic Acid Technology). Silicate additives make G13 ideal for long-term use in all modern radiators, especially those constructed from aluminium, cast iron and magnesium alloys. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Kharl said:

Dont get the point

Green (or blue) is almost invariably ethylene glycol. OAT is almost invariably pink or orange. The only way you can safely change from one to the other is to drain the old one, flush engine, radiator and heater until the flushing water runs completely clear, then let them dry, then flush the system again.

Your "new" engine had green coolant, so not a new engine then but a new to you (extremely nice and smooth new diesel engine) second hand one with unknown history having had a head gasket replaced that they subsequently decided to sell................

Edited 26 March, 20224 yr by J.R.

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

Green (or blue) is almost invariably ethylene glycol. OAT is almost invariably pink or orange. The only way you can safely change from one to the other is to drain the old one, flush engine, radiator and heater until the flushing water runs completely clear, then let them dry, then flush the system again.

all the coolant changes i meationed earlier were done with a complete  flush, termostat out, demineralized water, and even wait hours for the engine to cool down  to protect it from thermal shocks, with an outside temperature of  35celcius, the engine can take up to 8 hours to completly cool down while qith an outside air temperature of 25 only take two hours or 3 at most...

 

 

about the colors you mention... i suggest not to rely in that anymore, not now a days. in fact the OAT g12 coolant is pinkish or redish, while the HOAT, which is COMPLETLY ethyl glycol free is violet and redish sometimes, depend on the brand, and the concentrate of the same brand and the same HOAT is blue

 

 

3 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Your "new" engine had green coolant, so not a new engine then but a new to you second hand one with unknown history?  possibly having had a head gasket replaced after overheating but without the head being skimmed.

is this a joke, right?

i have notice an intention to insist, the car had the problem before...  i even ignore some sarcastic comments nothing to do with understanding there is a problem further more away from what you know... i know you all assume a posstion where you have seen everything, good luck with that, but i disagree and i found strong sources to believe is not my car the problem.  

 

The most i investigate specifically about that coolant the most i get the answer. ok, lets asume  my car had the problem, what a coincidence that just couple of days using the g12 then the gasket leaks, i used two different coolants for a week and 15 days and no single problem, the g12 stuff was in the trunk when the mechanic saw it and adviced me not to use that.

But what a coincidence, several cases here in this are, and what a coincidence, that the same former dealer confirmed that issue, i guess those new cars also had bad gaskets....   i even read that at the Repsol webpage, i didtn know how i got there but i was trying to find the link to post it here but now i am not interested anymore to show that link...

 

But, since i have nothing important to do with my time like suggested lets continue with the game, my headgasket is bad, and was bad all the time...

iluminate me and help me with the signs of a bad blown worn headgasket.. lets see if my car has one of them... the coolant leak,... i dont know you are the experts, in my humble experience i have no seen any bad headgasket with coolant leak without burning it or having bubbles or oil in it...   but it could be... why not... what else?

 

 

 

 

 

 

The amount of time ive been working on cars... I can assure you using the wrong coolant causes 2 things - jelly like substance or corrosion to the cylinder head if ally - not a quick process and happens over 1000s of miles and years.

 

What youre doing here is conformation bias, youre looking for things that support your line of inquiry rather than facts - random websites and forums with out dated information and people with 'trust me bro' knowledge is not a reliable source.

 

The reason youre chasing leaks is simple - a leak allows pressure to be lost, pressure will leave via the easiest point, the weakest. You fix the leak which is the weakest, that pressure then finds the next weakest spot to escape and it carries on.

 

The photo you posted its hard to tell but its either leaking from the side of the head and running round or that head gasket is fubar. My guess is the latter. If your head gasket had failed this badly as you say from incorrect coolant, all the seals would be falling apart and water pump, thermostat, headgasket to oil and to cylinder would all be leaking. 

6 hours ago, ApertureS said:

The amount of time ive been working on cars... I can assure you using the wrong coolant causes 2 things - jelly like substance or corrosion to the cylinder head if ally - not a quick process and happens over 1000s of miles and years.

 

What youre doing here is conformation bias, youre looking for things that support your line of inquiry rather than facts - random websites and forums with out dated information and people with 'trust me bro' knowledge is not a reliable source.

 

The reason youre chasing leaks is simple - a leak allows pressure to be lost, pressure will leave via the easiest point, the weakest. You fix the leak which is the weakest, that pressure then finds the next weakest spot to escape and it carries on.

 

The photo you posted its hard to tell but its either leaking from the side of the head and running round or that head gasket is fubar. My guess is the latter. If your head gasket had failed this badly as you say from incorrect coolant, all the seals would be falling apart and water pump, thermostat, headgasket to oil and to cylinder would all be leaking. 

 

Wo bad i can not express how i would like due language limitations...

 

Today i travel to the city to talk with two friends (no mechanics) who used the same coolant, they are not the type of "trust me bro", one is my ex boss, which two of his cars are a perfectly working 2008 Octavia with 120k km on it, pristine conditions, and a diesel Fiat Panda... he says i am lucky that i only had that leak because he had to do that, both of them leak badly, badly to the point of overhead due missing coolant. then he remembered me a story about a problem he had with some coolant that Rotax suggested us for our fleet and he refuse to use that and asked for an alternative, i said yes i remember that situation, then he said, it was the g12, and because what happened to my two cars, i didn't wanted to use that in the planes

 

And the other friend is the official importer of Mannol, it is an old German guy with lot of experience, the first thing he said after i asked him for a G13 was: "leaking problems with your Fabia?

 

He mentioned about severe falsification of Motul and Mobil oil in this country (it comes altered from overseas (purchased form Mexico) and the coolant, he suspect i it is happening the same...

The rest of users that had the same problem, solved the situation changing to another coolant, they didn't change hoses, seals gaskets...  the most cautious like my ex boss didi it because he can and he have a different  concept about taking care of vehicles...

 

What you says have sense, but...

 

Quote

What youre doing here is conformation bias, youre looking for things that support your line of inquiry rather than facts - random websites and forums with out dated information and people with 'trust me bro' knowledge is not a reliable source.

i am sorry about that but i beg to differ, it was not a confirmation bias because THE ADVICE WAS THERE before even using that coolant, it would confirmation bias if without knowing anything about before, i do a thing then something gets wrong, and then, in a narrow thinking only focus in one thing and star looking for things to support THAT.

and... i dont thing that getting that information from REPSOL, Wolflubes.com, and a trusted ex SCT employee which now is the official importer to this country and it is a close friend... i don't think those are unreliable sources...

anyway, thank you for your help and time, this night i started the flushing process, the coolant came out almost in perfect shape, color, odor and consistency, no a single trace of oil, but with a little sediment... i will continue tomorrow then will keep updating after couple of weeks.

 

 

Edited 27 March, 20224 yr by Kharl

4 hours ago, Kharl said:

a perfectly working 2008 Octavia with 120k km

Well, I positively know that, ex works in Europe, this was supplied with pink G12. Any replacement G12 or G12+ will still be pink or orange. And any ethylene glycol coolant I've ever seen (multiple makes up to 1995 CE) was blue or green.

Also, if it may help, I think I can read (certainly I have listening comprehension) of Jamaican Patois. Actually, it may help if you'll say which nation you're from since "Caribbean" covers English, French and Spanish speaking islands.

My vehicle like yours was supplied with G13 coolant, it got drained when I removed the radiator to replace the crash bar and I forgot to add anti-freeze when I refilled it, I had none and intended to do it straight away but due to the initial covid confinement I did not see the car again for 3 months.

 

I only discovered recently that it had been running on plain water for 2 winters 😳 I could not buy G13 locally in France so put the minimum amount of G12 in it, I now have a gallon of concentrated G13 so will soon drain and refll it.

 

There have never been any leaks to date, if they start after using the G13 again I will be very surprised but will post on this thread.

 

I'm pretty sure that its Mannol that I have bought, I have issues with them as I bought 20 litres of oil advertised as low SAPS but the specifications on it say different, I'm not too concerned that it doesn't have the right VAG code if it is a low ash SAPS oil but their marketting and technical blurb is very evasive using terms like "suitable for diesel engines with post combustion filtration systems" but no mention of low ash or SAPS. I think that they may make their money by passing off lower grade products as higher grades and meeting manufacturers specs that they may not.

 

In that respect and following your experience I have my suspicions about my Mannol G13 coolant but I absolutely do not believe that G13 coolant, or any other for that matter will cause an engine to leak coolant, if they did then it was a leak waiting to happen anyway and requiring attention, if my engine subsequently leaks I absolutely will not be using a powder, liquid or turd type "leak sealer" I will find what gasket or hose joint is leaking and repair it.

19 hours ago, Kharl said:

Color is not a rule to know which type of coolant is, many brands follow a standard but many others dont

Correct.

 

Just one commonly available (G12+) example in UK - Comma Super Long Life Red Anti-Freeze - https://www.wilcodirect.co.uk/product/coolant-antifreeze/super-long-life-red-anti-freeze-5-litre-co-sla5l/CO-SLA5L

 

17760.pdf

 

I speak English (of a sort) and I cannot think of the correct words or technical terms but from my experience and knowledge I know one (some?) type of coolant (not VW specification stuff as it is not used in a VAG vehicle) that will more easily than others find it's way out, leak(s), this leak(s) can be isolated or localised and not coming out of everywhere it flows.

 

Note in the Comma Technical Data Sheet, inserted above, it has - "Remove spills from paintwork immediately."

 

There seems to possibly be at least one other instance on this site of G12 being possibly 'corrosion' (or wotever the correct word or technical term is) but this possibility was over a number of years.

 

There are many instances of manufacturers making mistakes with their products' production and then even fake/counterfeit products getting to suppliers shelves, and also it is not difficult to imagine dishonesty in legal businesses in the chemical and car trades.  And what else goes on on different parts of the world or where their products are manufactured or supplied from I do not know.

 

Edited 27 March, 20224 yr by nta16
spelling

17 minutes ago, nta16 said:

"Remove spills from paintwork immediately."

There seems to possibly be at least one other instance on this site of G12 being possibly 'corrosion'

 

Modern coolants work off a Silicate based OAT - Organic additive technology these additives carboxylates and triazole are a form of mild acid hence why leaving them on paint work is not the best of ideas. They are perfectly safe for in engine use and are fine for plastics, metals and rubbers they come into contact with.

 

The reason newer pink/red OAT anti freezes are used with aluminium/alloy parts is the carboxylate acid inhibitors are what are put in to prevent oxidisation and corrosion of aluminium parts. If older blue anti freeze was used this would allow the alloys to corrode and in some cases become permeable. 

 

Its just a mild warning to prevent paintwork damage and cover their backs. 

Edited 27 March, 20224 yr by ApertureS

4 hours ago, KenONeill said:

Well, I positively know that, ex works in Europe, this was supplied with pink G12. Any replacement G12 or G12+ will still be pink or orange. And any ethylene glycol coolant I've ever seen (multiple makes up to 1995 CE) was blue or green.

Also, if it may help, I think I can read (certainly I have listening comprehension) of Jamaican Patois. Actually, it may help if you'll say which nation you're from since "Caribbean" covers English, French and Spanish speaking islands.

Dominican Republic

Yeap when things are produced correctly they work correctly, subject to sufficient research and development (and a crystal ball sometimes). I was more just highlighting that coolants have chemicals and with the likes of chemical and oil companies it's very difficult sometimes to get consistent information and answers but this "red" stuff over years stuff may be less benign than other makes/types/colour/specification/code/number coolants.

 

Some say these VW spec coolants (they have so many) are backwards compatible and others say they're not. - https://www.glysantin.de/en/faq/are-glysantinr-products-backwards-compatible

 

I know of an instance when a highly recommended head gasket has failed because of some sort of production problem causing coolant leakage, water only overnight in this case.  If only everything in this world had the binary comforting certainly some of the lads here seem to think they do.

 

Edited 27 March, 20224 yr by nta16
spelling

26 minutes ago, nta16 said:

If only everything in this world had the binary comforting

I didn't say that; I said that every example of ethylene glycol I'd seen was blue or green, and every example of an OAT was some sort of pink, or orange.

Colour is irrelevant, the dye is added to allow the use of a refractometer and to make leaks easier to spot. The green is fluorescent so you can use a UV lamp to find a leak, some of the others are not, most are ethylene or propylene glycol and they can be safely mixed, OAT reacts with glycol and can gel if enough of both is present but won't if you've already drained the system and are simply refilling it.

 

There is SO MUCH nonsense talked about coolants, the most important thing in a tropical climate is corrosion inhibition, this is usually done with silicate additives so brand, colour, concentration or composition are unimportant.

54 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

I didn't say that; I said that every example of ethylene glycol I'd seen was blue or green, and every example of an OAT was some sort of pink, or orange.

Yes I know, unusually for me I did correctly read your post, I wasn't referring to you, stand down soldier there's no battle.  I'm not disputing your experience or eyesight and I noted your qualification.

 

I am surprised sometimes at the certainly in some posts given all the possibly variables and lack of possible information that can be or is given in previous posts and think, as you did, some qualification is best included, though I often forget myself.

 

1 hour ago, sepulchrave said:

Colour is irrelevant, the dye is added to allow the use of a refractometer and to make leaks easier to spot. The green is fluorescent so you can use a UV lamp to find a leak, some of the others are not, most are ethylene or propylene glycol and they can be safely mixed, OAT reacts with glycol and can gel if enough of both is present but won't if you've already drained the system and are simply refilling it.

I'd go a bit further and be add proper draining (as I'm not a paid mechanic) flushing, cleaning particularly if the vehicle's had previous owners and/or been serviced by others.  I've seen lots of photos of glup and gawd-knows what from the coolant systems of over-priced, over-valued old cars that (shouldn't at least) have been eating oats.  

 

You can throw in stuff to find leaks anyway, if the red riverlets aren't enough here. 😄

 

1 hour ago, sepulchrave said:

There is SO MUCH nonsense talked about coolants, the most important thing in a tropical climate is corrosion inhibition, this is usually done with silicate additives so brand, colour, concentration or composition are unimportant.

I must admit I was wondering how cold it might get on Kharl's mountain excisions and whetherhe could just use water and an additive of corrosion inhibitor and, I'm going to use the word whether it technically the correct terminology, lubricant.  Water is perhaps? less expensive for testing and to top up if leaks additives are easy to top up.

 

I hope the lid is still on your blood pressure monitor. 😆

 

uhm.... has somebody uploaded a tutorial about how to replace the head gasket?

 

🤣

12 hours ago, Kharl said:

uhm.... has somebody uploaded a tutorial about how to replace the head gasket?

 

🤣

 

4 hours ago, TMB said:

 

🤣🤫