Hello guys

 

Does anybody know if it's possible to put rear brakes from some other model or even different car make..

 

My father owns '90 Favorit, and it failed MOT 3 times because of the rear brakes :

1st handbrake cable was done on one side (both sides replaced after that)

2nd difference in the brake force on the rears was over 30% ( right rear brake cylinder replaced (was leaking a bit), brake shoes replaced on both ends, and the system bled + rear drums machined )

3rd rear right is "lagging" when braking

 

So it seams the the self adjusting system (if it's called that, 2 metal pieces with teeth) is not holding like it should.. 

I saw that Felicia/Fabia ( and maybe even Favorit from '93) have much better self adjusting system, and I'm curious if that would work.. 

 

I would probably need new brake shoe holders, handbrake cables and all other parts, but the main question : can it be done

@zeka95 - My main technique with "self-adjusting" rear brakes (discs or drums) is to:-

 

1. Stop on level ground, leaving the handbrake off
2. Apply the footbrake as hard as I can 2 or 3 times
3. Now, with the footbrake on, apply the handbrake hard as well
4. Release the footbrake and then the handbrake.

Handbrake should now be adjusted. Your (2) with the leaking wheel cylinder was coincidence.

You'd need to replace the rear beam. 93 favorit and Felicia had different mounting for the stub axles to fit MK3 golf brakes. 

@Papez is right. You'll need whole beam axle from 93 and above cars. Also you will need new stub axles to begin with.

 

Brake balance issue is a real pain in the a**. Because after every time you disturb the brake fluid in the lines to make a change you have to take the air out. After testing and replacing something all procedure starts over from the beginning.

 

If I were you I'd check brake lines going to rear for visible damage. The brake lines can be easily crushed if you drop the car from a curb.

If you can't find visible damage, start testing from the easiest and cheapest parts. That being the rear cylinders.

You mentioned:

On 03/07/2022 at 00:08, zeka95 said:

3rd rear right is "lagging" when braking

You mean rear right is acting late even after the cylinder change?

 

There might be a problem with inline brake limiters attached to the master cylinder:

Before buying anything, you can test them by replacing one with another to see if the problem shifts from one side to the other.

 

Remember, every time you make a change on brake lines which compromises brake fluid sealing, you must bleed the system properly. Also don't buy expensive parts until you are %100 sure that you have found the faulty part.

@R_Blue Yeah, by lagging I mean that is acting late.. Both cylinders are of the same kind (AQ) and brake lines are good, not clogged...

 

Is there some sort of manual that is detailed enough about procedure how to adjust the rear brakes properly ( Skoda system, not VW ),  that the rear wheels can turn freely, and yet to brake well when it's needed...

 

I will get new rear brake cylinders ( Fragokov - that's the best that I can get in my country ) and see if it will resolve the problem..

 

I tried Ken's method, but that didn't solve anything..

 

I have only a few days to sort that out, otherwise I'll have to pay 3rd MOT, and those aren't cheap at all..

Note that I don't have a good mechanic in my town ( mechanic from authorized Skoda service "fixed" the car after the first MOT fail, and yet it failed again )  , so I have to do this myself...

1 hour ago, zeka95 said:

 

I tried Ken's method, but that didn't solve anything

Well, at least it's cheap (as in free) yes? The other issue I've had is the outer sheaths (should be fixed length) on handbrake cables collapsing, and allowing way too much free play before the wheel brake comes on.

@zeka95 From what I've found browsing the web, inline rear brake limiters are not specific for our cars. The are other cars from the same era that use inline brake limiters. I've found some other users complaining about rear brake bias problems. Inline brake limiters, (I mean this part: )

have internal moving parts, o-rings and springs. I've found out that local mechanics "fix" this by removing rear brake limiters and making a direct connection to the master cylinder.

 

The easy way to make it in our car is, buying a new master cylinder intended for Favorit pickup.

Please, check this picture carefully:

 

This is from my car and you can clearly see the brake lines are connected directly to the master cylinder. The master cylinder is a Favorit pickup model.

 

Please check this message here:

 

From what I've learned, when there is a problem with in-line rear brake limiters that could not be fixed and a replacement is not available, mechanics do this fix.

 

I don't know how rear breaks react with these limiters. Maybe the "lagging" you described is the normal operation and the other side is acting faster than it should, thus creating the bias defect.

 

- Be absolutely sure there is not any air in the brake lines.

- You can always check rear cylinder for defects. They are basically two pistons placed opposed to each other, sharing the same tube. There is a spring in the middle. The outer rubber boot is holding the pistons in their place. The pistons should move smoothly in their place. Signs of friction means, corrosion in the tube.

- Check the back plate! It's not just for protecting the rear brake parts. It is also an anchor point for inner mechanisms. If it's bent, rear brake problems may arise.

 

- Try to remove and try to check inside of the brake limiters. There are o rings and springs inside. If they are damaged, this will affect rear brake balance.

- As a last resort, you can buy a Pickup master cylinder and connect the rear brake lines directly to it.

This setup was on my car when I bought it. It didn't cause me a trouble so far but this is a Forman. I have an additional permanent weight too. (LPG tank) On a lighter Favorit, disabling brake limiters may cause trouble. Rear wheel lock when braking may cause you to lose control of the car. Do this only as a last resort to pass the MOT. (If your MOT rules allow this. Are they only controlling brake power difference between wheels?) Try to find an alternate solution for limiting the rear brakes after the MOT. (Maybe beam axle controlled limiter from Felicia?)

 

13 hours ago, zeka95 said:

Is there some sort of manual that is detailed enough about procedure how to adjust the rear brakes properly ( Skoda system, not VW ),  that the rear wheels can turn freely, and yet to brake well when it's needed...

 

I checked for the older rear brake setup. The mechanism is different but they are also "self-adjusted". You can only adjust hand brake bias from the bottom of the hand brake lever.

 

I must remind you that, I'm just a normal car owner like you.

@RicardoM is the master mechanic here. Maybe he can offer more if he is not busy.

 

As a last note, please be careful. Brakes are very important for your and other's safety.

Thanks for the info..

 

I'll try to swap inline rear brake limiters tomorrow..

 

Today I did a little test to see the difference in braking between the rear wheels and it seems that from 35kph to a dead stop it's about half a circle (rear left blocks sooner than the right one)

@zeka95

Let us know how it went.

On 14/07/2022 at 09:22, R_Blue said:

@zeka95

Let us know how it went.

Excellent, the car is road legal again..

 

I tried to find new inline brake limiters, but that just doesn't exist anymore... And I could only find a master cylinder that I already have (non pick-up).. 

 

So, my father and I removed all parts from brake limiters, then bled the system and the result was the same.. Right rear was still half a circle late...

 

The next morning we changed the right rear cylinder (2nd time), bled the system and the result was again the same..

 

But the most important thing was that the rear right was holding as adjusted, and that's due to the new metal bar that connects brake shoes.. The old one was eaten a bit (side on which the handbrake cable attaches) which led to the failing of self-adjusting system ( that is my assumption ) ..

 

 

 

On 15/07/2022 at 20:47, zeka95 said:

Excellent, the car is road legal again..

That's great news!

 

On 15/07/2022 at 20:47, zeka95 said:

removed all parts from brake limiters

Good idea.

 

On 15/07/2022 at 20:47, zeka95 said:

But the most important thing was that the rear right was holding as adjusted, and that's due to the new metal bar that connects brake shoes.. The old one was eaten a bit (side on which the handbrake cable attaches) which led to the failing of self-adjusting system ( that is my assumption ) ..

So this was all because of the worn metal bar at the rear left side?

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/favorit+form+pickup/fav/1990-107/6/609-609000/#7

No:7  ?

12 hours ago, R_Blue said:

So this was all because of the worn metal bar at the rear left side?

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/favorit+form+pickup/fav/1990-107/6/609-609000/#7

No:7  ?

No.. It was number 11 ( bar was worn at the side on which handbrake cable connects : so on the left side of the car the right end of that bar was eaten a bit, and on the right side of the car left end was eaten ).. I discovered also that number 10 springs are missing (which have a role in self-adjusting system)..  So, I'll have to disassemble  the rear brakes again, and try to fit that spring in place..