This questions not even for me just a family member who is looking to buy a used Karoq.

 

He struggles with arthritis so favours the higher driving position and wants an auto. He currently runs a VW Jetta 1.6TDi DSG. He also leans towards the idea of another diesel but I suspect that view could be changed. As far as I can see they come in two engine sizes for the diesel a 1.6 or 2.0ltr. Are both of those up to the job or is the 2.0 better suited to a larger vehicle. I assume both engines need adblue due to them being relatively new engines?? 

 

Are there any significant issue that crop up or niggles that are common? Budget is £18K ish

 

We've not been able to spot an auto locally, so not even got so far as a test drive as yet, though we have kicked the tyres on a couple this morning just to see what you can get for you money.

 

 

I have had a 1.6 tdi auto as a loan car for a few  hundred miles. I thought it went well enough and returned about 55mpg on a longish trip.

I now have the 190ps 2lt diesel auto which goes very well, but is not that economical with its 4wd system at around 40mpg typically, maybe 45 on a run.

The 2wd 2lt diesel auto is 150ps and a lot more economical apparently but I have not tried one.

Dont buy a diesel unless you do enough long trips to allow the car to maintain the dpf, a filter in the exhaust. For low mileage use stick to petrol. With diesel being a lot more than petrol now there is probably no saving over life of car anyway.

5 minutes ago, kenfowler3966 said:

I have had a 1.6 tdi auto as a loan car for a few  hundred miles. I thought it went well enough and returned about 55mpg on a longish trip.

I now have the 190ps 2lt diesel auto which goes very well, but is not that economical with its 4wd system at around 40mpg typically, maybe 45 on a run.

The 2wd 2lt diesel auto is 150ps and a lot more economical apparently but I have not tried one.

Dont buy a diesel unless you do enough long trips to allow the car to maintain the dpf, a filter in the exhaust. For low mileage use stick to petrol. With diesel being a lot more than petrol now there is probably no saving over life of car anyway.

I hear what you say with the regards to the diesel. Most of his trips are no more than 30mins or so, say 10 to 15 miles, a few long runs each month. I think he's been lucky with his current diesel that he's had no real issues to date. A mate of mine runs a Golf with the new 1.5tsi engine which I think is shared right across the VAG platform. He's been pleased with it up to yet. I know the new 1.0 tsi is pretty good but I'm not convinced it suits a heavier vehicle.

I guessing on his budget that the 4X4 versions will a tad too expensive.

@DampDog why  would a 1.0 TSI DSG not do all he needs, unless he needs to have the car full of passengers or tow? 

Worth trying one then you know if it is up to UK speed limits. 

 

With an early 1.5 TSI you are wanting to know that it had the software updates and is free of the issue that required VW to come up with them for some across their range that needed them. 

So cold start test drives of at least that 15 miles but best more than that.

 

 

Edited 11 September, 20223 yr by roottoot

Be careful about comparing new diesels with added emission equipment to euro6d to some old diesel that gave no trouble.  The old ones didn’t have the complicated add ons to meet the new emissions specs.  Remember what isn’t fitted isn’t going to cause trouble and breakdown.

 

The 1.0tsi with DSG is lot more lively than most people expect.  Generally regarded as sufficient (unless you carry lots of people or goods, or want it for towing).  If you can’t find a Karoq to test drive with this engine, there are plenty of other Skoda, VW, Seat cars that might be available with this engine to get a feel for it.

 

As for the 4x4, unless you live somewhere that has a narrow steep road or unmade track to it, do you really need it.  Admittedly the factory eco summer tyres aren’t designed for all year use including UK winters, but changing the tyres is lot less expensive than specifying the 4x4 system (and which requires extra maintenance to the Haldex system).  
 

Finally don’t forget the Seat Ateca is virtually identical overall (specs will be different) so by changing badges will have wider choice.

 

If it were me I'd be looking elsewhere. That budget will get you in to a car that may need some expensive routine maintenance in the not too distant future. You're also looking at a car with a twin clutch so again, there's another potential money pit waiting on a car that's 4yr / 40k miles old. Given the age of the car, if it's the 1.0tsi, 1.5tsi or 1.6 diesel, it'll come with a gearbox that has questionable reliability. ( The newer ones are much more reliable ) but at that age would I take the risk?

 

My advice would be to stay away from the VW group if that's your budget for an automatic.

8 hours ago, kodiaqsportline said:

If it were me I'd be looking elsewhere. That budget will get you in to a car that may need some expensive routine maintenance in the not too distant future. You're also looking at a car with a twin clutch so again, there's another potential money pit waiting on a car that's 4yr / 40k miles old. Given the age of the car, if it's the 1.0tsi, 1.5tsi or 1.6 diesel, it'll come with a gearbox that has questionable reliability. ( The newer ones are much more reliable ) but at that age would I take the risk?

 

My advice would be to stay away from the VW group if that's your budget for an automatic.

I am going to respectfully disagree, I don’t think that anyone on these forums have ever mentioned a problem with a DSG gearbox when paired to 1.0tsi

 

However you will find multiple references to problems with wet clutch DSG and/or 4x4 system in Karoq, Kodiaq, Superb and Octavia sections, usually because of poor or missed DSG fluid changes, and clogged filter in Haldex 4x4 system.

 

As for the potential money pit to replace failed components, you are nowadays able to buy all-in-one servicing on 3+ year old cars which includes MOT tests, European breakdown cover and an effectively free full warranty.

 

 

There are taxis with the wet clutch dsg which have done over 500k without fault if properly serviced.

I deliberately went for the diesel dsg to get the wet clutch as theoretically there will virtually no clutch wear. The drive is transmitted between the plates by shear in the oil and the plates don’t actually engage until both are travelling at the same speed.

A dry clutch dsg works like a conventional clutch using friction between the plates to transmit power when setting off. The engine plates spinning and drive plates stationary at that point. The clutch plates have to wear to do this and have a finite life. Life will depend on driving style. Perhaps up to 150k if driven properly but can be worn out in only a few thousand miles if abused. (It is more difficult to abuse a dsg in a car with auto handbrake though so should do better in a Karoq than in cars with a manual handbrake)

Hundreds of thousands, millions even of 6 speed wet clutch DSG's doing hundreds of thousands of miles.

Now the same with 7 speed wet, and some even recently in Skoda Kodiaq having MCU issues.  So time will tell.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/505078-mechatronic-unit-failure

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/502781-gearbox-in-emergency-mode-no-reverse-gear

 

How VW Group deal with the failures of 7 Speed Wet Clutch DSG's is what matters.  If numbers are low, and stay low then fine. Deal quickly with them.

There are some that seem to be having issues with just how long getting a new MCU is taking.

VW in that case should be getting a new DSG to them with a MCU.  Ones sitting built for cars that are only going to sit months at the factory needing parts to finish them anyway.

Deal with customers that paid and bought a car already rather than ones made to wait a year anyway on a new order.

 

DQ200 DSG's had their world wide recall 2012, repeated in Australia Recently, and the Service Campaigns, and the Clutch Issues from Euro 6 engines.

1.2, 1.4,1.8.

So 1.2, 1.4, 1.5 TSi's, 1.4 & 1.6 TDI's have had possible issues with DQ200's. they are fitted to 1.0 TSI's since 2018 and reports of issues are so few. 

Time is what tells how things are.  Warranty Claims in the 3 years, or claims or repairs after. 

 

With 1.0 TSI's and DQ200 DSG's there maybe are some getting to 150,000 miles or more, 

or there are some that will have a 1.0 TSI engine car and not do 10,000 miles a year and not run it for 15 years. 

Edited 12 September, 20223 yr by roottoot

Check the kessy auto locking works, lots including myself have had problems resulting in new locks being fitted. I had new lock in March and problem has started again. To be fair the service advisor did say the other locks may go on the blink.!!

20 hours ago, roottoot said:

@DampDog why  would a 1.0 TSI DSG not do all he needs, unless he needs to have the car full of passengers or tow? 

Worth trying one then you know if it is up to UK speed limits. 

 

With an early 1.5 TSI you are wanting to know that it had the software updates and is free of the issue that required VW to come up with them for some across their range that needed them. 

So cold start test drives of at least that 15 miles but best more than that.

 

 

As I've mentioned, I'm just doing a little research on behalf of a relative, it's actually my uncle, and just to give you a little better picture he's all but retired and he's aiming for this to be his probable last car purchase and a I guess a treat for himself. The diesel choice comes from him having diesels for 20+ years and is so what he's used to. However diesels are not the paragon of reliability they once were due to their  increasing complexity to meet ever more stringent emission regulations. I've already suggested he at least try a test drive in a petrol version to give him a feel of the car.

 

The 1.5Tsi vs the 1.0Tsi is interesting. I myself run a Polo 1.2Tsi. For such a small engine is surprisingly capable and fuel efficient and has thus far been 100% reliable. However it is quite noticeable  how much harder you have to work it with a full load on board, likewise the fuel economy suffers. My gut feeling would be the 1.5tsi would probably do better in a larger vehicle. However as you have mention even with a little dig via "Google" I picked up on cold start poor running issue that have materialized. I happened to be speaking to my mate who runs a 1.5tsi Golf and mentioned it and it reminded him that his did actually have to go in for a software update for that very thing.

 

That sort of brings us back to the possibility of a diesel version. If the petrol ones are tetchy you may as well have a possibly tetchy diesel and have the fuel economy. Whether the 1.6 or the 2.0 is the better option I don't know. I may come down to availability as the lions share appear to be the 1.6

 

20 hours ago, SurreyJohn said:

Be careful about comparing new diesels with added emission equipment to euro6d to some old diesel that gave no trouble.  The old ones didn’t have the complicated add ons to meet the new emissions specs.  Remember what isn’t fitted isn’t going to cause trouble and breakdown.

 

The 1.0tsi with DSG is lot more lively than most people expect.  Generally regarded as sufficient (unless you carry lots of people or goods, or want it for towing).  If you can’t find a Karoq to test drive with this engine, there are plenty of other Skoda, VW, Seat cars that might be available with this engine to get a feel for it.

 

As for the 4x4, unless you live somewhere that has a narrow steep road or unmade track to it, do you really need it.  Admittedly the factory eco summer tyres aren’t designed for all year use including UK winters, but changing the tyres is lot less expensive than specifying the 4x4 system (and which requires extra maintenance to the Haldex system).  
 

Finally don’t forget the Seat Ateca is virtually identical overall (specs will be different) so by changing badges will have wider choice.

 

 

The added complexity of modern diesels does make them less appealing. I'm assuming as I don't really know that the whole of the VAG group engines now use AdBlue to meet the emission targets? My own oppinion is similar to your own in that the more complex things are, the more chance something is going to break of malfunction as the miles add up. I mentioned the 4X4 variant simply because I'd read they can be significantly less fuel efficient than the 2WD version. So that's not really on the wish list.

 

 

17 hours ago, kodiaqsportline said:

If it were me I'd be looking elsewhere. That budget will get you in to a car that may need some expensive routine maintenance in the not too distant future. You're also looking at a car with a twin clutch so again, there's another potential money pit waiting on a car that's 4yr / 40k miles old. Given the age of the car, if it's the 1.0tsi, 1.5tsi or 1.6 diesel, it'll come with a gearbox that has questionable reliability. ( The newer ones are much more reliable ) but at that age would I take the risk?

 

My advice would be to stay away from the VW group if that's your budget for an automatic.

 

Unfortunately the car needing to be an auto is a must. The reason I'm doing some digging is so that the next purchase doesn't become the dream-car turned money pit!. I'm not clued up in anyway with regards to the reliability of the DSG box or even which version is fitted to the Karoq anyway. I've always held the view that autos are inherently less reliable than manual, but maybe I'm just a dinosaur as even small/cheap cars have the choice of auto from most manufacturers. 

Edited 12 September, 20223 yr by DampDog

9 hours ago, SurreyJohn said:

As for the potential money pit to replace failed components, you are nowadays able to buy all-in-one servicing on 3+ year old cars which includes MOT tests, European breakdown cover and an effectively free full warranty.

 

...on a car you don't know how it was driven. The warranty only covers items that were faulty at manufacture, it doesn't cover wear and tear.

 

And will that all-in-one cover such things as routine maintenance ?  i.e. a cambelt change might be due within a year of the OP buying the car. err No.   Whatever VW group car he purchases, he could well be looking at a £500 bill in addition to every other motoring cost. That's why I'd recommend another manufacturer given his buying criteria.  I know that seems a weird thing to say from a VW group owner but I certainly wouldn't recommend buying a VW group product at that age.  ( that's a VW group ICE product for the pedantic members amongst us ).

 

 

Edited 12 September, 20223 yr by kodiaqsportline

7 hours ago, Gomezz said:

Check the kessy auto locking works, lots including myself have had problems resulting in new locks being fitted. I had new lock in March and problem has started again. To be fair the service advisor did say the other locks may go on the blink.!!

 

I'd not seen that mentioned before. I've seen key fobs being mentioned. Not failures just poor battery life, sub 6 month.

 

This is a car that I've seen locally. Sorry not sure how to paste visible links. normal link below

 

Karoq 1.5tsi Auto

 

Edited 12 September, 20223 yr by DampDog

34 minutes ago, kodiaqsportline said:

And will that all-in-one cover such things as routine maintenance ?  i.e. a cambelt change might be due within a year of the OP buying the car. err No.   Whatever VW group car he purchases, he could well be looking at a £500 bill in addition to every other motoring cost. That's why I'd recommend another manufacturer given his buying criteria.  I know that seems a weird thing to say from a VW group owner but I certainly wouldn't recommend buying a VW group product at that age.  ( that's a VW group ICE product for the pedantic members amongst us ).

 

Not sure I'd agree that the VW group are really much worse than anyone else with regards to routine maintenance. As you say at 3-4 years old with 25-35K on the clock you are looking to at least a major service in the near future regardless of manufacturer. I'm not sure that I'd personally want to spend close to 20K on a used car regardless of who built it. Unfortunately 20K doesn't buy a vehicle of that type new, unless it's an MG or Dacia, It complicated by the Karoq being a relatively new vehicle on the market so the niggles are still working their way out, especially for the used buyer outside the warranty period.

The Karoq is using the parts / drivetrain used on VW, SEAT and Audi and there is much of a muchness.

 

What is worth considering IMO is the short period of time that 1.6 TDI's came with SCR (AdBlue) then were discontined.

I would avoid a car with SCR if getting as a keeper. 

2 minutes ago, roottoot said:

What is worth considering IMO is the short period of time that 1.6 TDI's came with SCR (AdBlue) then were discontined.

I would avoid a car with SCR if getting as a keeper. 

Not sure I follow. Are there two 1.6 variants? SCR and non-SCR? if so how do you spot the difference? AdBlue tank next to fuel filler? Does the same apply to the 2.0?

No idea if there are any 1.6 TDI Karoq without SCR, i just know of ones with it.

 

 

Surely all Karoq diesels are Euro6? I thought it had to have adblu to be able to achieve Euro6?

The last thing you want is a Euro 5 car as these are charged more or even banned from entering some clean air zones.

33 minutes ago, kenfowler3966 said:

Surely all Karoq diesels are Euro6? I thought it had to have adblu to be able to achieve Euro6?

The last thing you want is a Euro 5 car as these are charged more or even banned from entering some clean air zones.

Yeah. Just had a quick Google and Euro 6 has been with us since 2015. I didn't actually think it had been with us quite that long. I think the first Karoq's arrived 2018 so they will all be AdBlue/SCR engines. I also overlooked that many of the petrol engines now have Active Cylinder Tech, so that another complicated technology that can go wrong. ( I do miss carburetors and a set of points being as complicated as it got...🙂 ) 

 

The diesels are stating to sound like a better bet for long term ownership. I'll have a nosy and see if either the 1.6 or 2.0 have any serious gremlins that have popped up.

The 1.5 TSI as your friend has had ACT.  There were 1.4 TSI with or without ACT but not in a Karoq in the EU / Europe.  There are in Australia though.    Ps.  Are 1.6 TDI,s really sounding good for long term ownership.    I would rethink that.  That is because of the cost if there is a failure in the SCR, and you will not get away with a delete as some have spoken of with 2.0 TDI,s.   For lots of only 15 mile journeys they make no sense for long term ownership.  

Edited 13 September, 20223 yr by roottoot

8 hours ago, roottoot said:

The 1.5 TSI as your friend has had ACT.  There were 1.4 TSI with or without ACT but not in a Karoq in the EU / Europe.  There are in Australia though.    Ps.  Are 1.6 TDI,s really sounding good for long term ownership.    I would rethink that.  That is because of the cost if there is a failure in the SCR, and you will not get away with a delete as some have spoken of with 2.0 TDI,s.   For lots of only 15 mile journeys they make no sense for long term ownership.  

 

Yeah. I will have a chat with my mate come the weekend. That said he bought his brand new so isn't to worried about reliability as he is still in warranty. Not 100% but I don't think he's done much in the way of mileage either. 

 

Like with so many things it feels a little like I've opened a can of worms. Personally I would be worried about the complexity of a modern diesel as a second hand purchase. Then again I would with the VAG tsi ACT. They are good, but the more complex a thing is, the greater the chance of it catching you out with a substantial repair bill.

@DampDog If under 3 years old it will not have been part of the recall on them.

Even older than 3 years not all needed it doing. 

 

They are good and all should be well with those that had the snagging issues denied by VW Group as usual and which eventually they had to address.

Too late for those that had been told, 'they all do that', or never heard of that and they got rid of the cars.

Manuals and DSG's not just manuals.

These are the cars near the price range you have given.

 

Lots of good cars out there, just do not get a lemon.

Hard to know sadly. The software update should have the car behaving properly when roadtested from cold starts in colder weather.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/506167-has-anyone-recently-taken-delivery-of-a-factory-order-15tsi-dsg

 

 

 

 

Edited 13 September, 20223 yr by roottoot

@roottoot

 

Thanks for taking the time to post up that info, much appreciated. Bottom line is we need to view and drive some cars to get a feel for them. There are cars out there just not so many locally.

The Basic models have fewer bells and whistles so much less to fail long term, things such as electronic handbrake and much else I believe were not featured on the basic models. 

A DSG & autohold and an e-Brake is a joy IMO.

A Scala or Kamiq with DSG but a manual parking brake might suit people and the KISS principal but for many the new system is fine and works each and every time.

Maintenance is important.