Sound Upgrade

[Marci1229]

Dear Members,

 

I'm thinking of upgrading the current sound system in my Octavia. It is currently equipped with the factory sound system, but I feel that it is not quite enough for me.

I want the music I listen to to be more powerful and clear at the same time. At the moment they sound clear enough, but I miss a little bass and power in the music.

Unfortunately, I understand that if I make a change, the warranty will be voided. Am I right?

I was wondering if replacing the basic speakers with something more substantial would make a significant difference? Or do you also need to add extras such as an amplifier and a subwoofer to the car for a change?

Is it possible to carry out this process without losing the guarantee? I don't want to get a bass optimized sound system out of my car but where all the sounds are optimized and clear with enjoyable but not overpowering bass.

 

Can anyone advise me on this? My main questions are as above.

 

Best regards,

 

Marci1229

 

[zorglub]

hello, there is already a few topic about this such this one (even if you don't have canton)

 

 

[Felix2021]

@Marci1229 just 2 weeks ago i have replaced speakers in my O4 and made sound deadening of the doors. Highly recommended. Difference is night and day.

I went with Focal IS VW 165 speakers in the front and IS VW 155 in the back.

[Marci1229]

42 minutes ago, zorglub said:

hello, there is already a few topic about this such this one (even if you don't have canton)

 

 

Thanks, I have read that topic but I didn't find any useful information about my problem.

[Marci1229]

28 minutes ago, Felix2021 said:

@Marci1229 just 2 weeks ago i have replaced speakers in my O4 and made sound deadening of the doors. Highly recommended. Difference is night and day.

I went with Focal IS VW 165 speakers in the front and IS VW 155 in the back.

Thank you for the information. I will look up the speakers you mentioned, but I believe the Octavia 4 generation only has a 12 cm front speaker. I don't know anything about the size of the rear speakers. Does O4, in this case, mean the 4th generation octavia? If I understand correctly there is a huge difference and definitely worth it after you have replaced it? The only question is the warranty. Did you lose the warranty?

[Felix2021]

Yes, O4 means Octavia 4th generation.

To be exact, same as your's - 2021 Octavia 1.5 eTEC.

Original speakers are 15,5cm front and back. I have installed those 165mm Focals in the front without any issue - they fit perfectly, and are almost plug and play. Almost, as you have to replace plastic part of the woofer plug (contacts are the same, but speaker has 4 pin plug as Golf, and O4 has 2 pin plug).

Yes, to my ear difference is huge. For me it sounds very good now with EQ set to 0/flat.

[Marci1229]

42 minutes ago, Felix2021 said:

Yes, O4 means Octavia 4th generation.

To be exact, same as your's - 2021 Octavia 1.5 eTEC.

Original speakers are 15,5cm front and back. I have installed those 165mm Focals in the front without any issue - they fit perfectly, and are almost plug and play. Almost, as you have to replace plastic part of the woofer plug (contacts are the same, but speaker has 4 pin plug as Golf, and O4 has 2 pin plug).

Yes, to my ear difference is huge. For me it sounds very good now with EQ set to 0/flat.

Thank you very much for the information.
The big question. Have you lost the warranty?

I contacted my dealership to see if they could replace these 4 speakers without voiding the warranty on the car. I am currently waiting for a reply.

 

By the way, If you turned up the EQ, would it make a difference to the sound? I mean you turn up the bass or the middle.

[Felix2021]

In EU they cannot void your warranty, unless they prove changes you made had something to do with a failure.

So in theory they could void warranty for infotaiment unit if it fails, as Focal speakers are 2Ohm. That will not/should not cause any harm, but in theory could be reason for them.

But if you will go there with i.e. engine failure, it has nothing to do with speakers, so they cannot void warranty for that.

Of course turning up EQ changes sounds, but i don't feel the need to do it. With these speakers i feel flat EQ is perfect, unlike with factory speakers, which required fiddling with settings.

[Marci1229]

1 minute ago, Felix2021 said:

In EU they cannot void your warranty, unless they prove changes you made had something to do with a failure.

So in theory they could void warranty for infotaiment unit if it fails, as Focal speakers are 2Ohm. That will not/should not cause any harm, but in theory could be reason for them.

But if you will go there with i.e. engine failure, it has nothing to do with speakers, so they cannot void warranty for that.

Of course turning up EQ changes sounds, but i don't feel the need to do it. With these speakers i feel flat EQ is perfect, unlike with factory speakers, which required fiddling with settings.

I understand, thank you very much! I am curious to see what you will reply to my email. But unfortunately, my gut feeling is that they will reject my application. In that case, I'll take my chances if the head unit in the car fails, and this has already happened with another 2019 Superb we have. The cost of the repair was 700,000 forints, that's 1800 dollars in dollars. In this case, that amount will have to be paid by me.

[Felix2021]

To be honest it depends on how stubborn you are. You could demand that they prove failure was caused by different speakers.

Speakers should not cause any harm to headunit in reality. O4 uses the same headunit (MIB3 OI) as Golf 8, and Focal is officially claiming those speakers to be Golf 8 compatibly. There are even official Focal videos on how to replace them. I'm pretty sure MIB3 OI is using some power amplifier IC, and those dedicated for cars and usually 2 (or even 1) Ohm compatible.

Also there is a good chance, that in case of MIB3 failure no one will check what speakers you have.

So i wouldn't worry too much

[zorglub]

18 hours ago, Felix2021 said:

@Marci1229 just 2 weeks ago i have replaced speakers in my O4 and made sound deadening of the doors. Highly recommended. Difference is night and day.

I went with Focal IS VW 165 speakers in the front and IS VW 155 in the back.

 

why using smaller speaker in the back ?

[Felix2021]

Originally in O4 there are 155mm speakers.

As i wasn't 100% sure if VW IS 165 will fit, i have ordered one set of each. In case 165 would not fit in the front, i would install 155, and return 165 and get 155 for the back.

However it was a fit, so i decided to leave 165 in the front, and install 155 in the back. First of all difference is not big in reality, second i heard that rear is limited when it comes to bass extension on the MIB3 side, so made no sense to return 155 to get another set of 165.

Long explanation, but i hope it's clear

[Marci1229]

2 hours ago, Felix2021 said:

Originally in O4 there are 155mm speakers.

As i wasn't 100% sure if VW IS 165 will fit, i have ordered one set of each. In case 165 would not fit in the front, i would install 155, and return 165 and get 155 for the back.

However it was a fit, so i decided to leave 165 in the front, and install 155 in the back. First of all difference is not big in reality, second i heard that rear is limited when it comes to bass extension on the MIB3 side, so made no sense to return 155 to get another set of 165.

Long explanation, but i hope it's clear

I got my answer from my car dealer. They told me that if I replace the 4 speakers with something else, the car's control system will recognize it and store it. And since the controller is connected to almost everything, including the engine controller, a failure traced back to the controller could void the warranty. So a fault that is related to the controller and can be traced back to the 4 speakers will void the warranty. I then asked what if they installed a factory part, but something more powerful and better, say the 4 speakers of the Canton system in place of the current ones. Currently I'm waiting for answer. 

 

What do you think about installing 4 speakers from the Canton system? Or possibly if it is feasible the full Canton system.

[Felix2021]

Following this logic, when your gearbox fails, they can say it's because of your phone connected to USB for Android Auto, or power supply for dashcam.

MIB3 can detect if speakers are not connected at all, but not if they have different impedance. So no, system will not show or log any errors. But if you are unsure, i can try to check with OBD11 for any errors related to speakers, maybe tomorrow.

Tracking down ECU to different speakers sounds like a magic to me, as speakers have NOTHING to do with CAN bus, which is only common point of ECU and MIB.

Forget about Canton speakers. They will not bring any improvement, as they are mediocre at best. "Magic" of canton is additional power amp with DSP and Dolby Prologic.

If you are worried about warranty, leave it alone till car is under warranty.

But i don't think you should be...

[Marci1229]

9 minutes ago, Felix2021 said:

Following this logic, when your gearbox fails, they can say it's because of your phone connected to USB for Android Auto, or power supply for dashcam.

MIB3 can detect if speakers are not connected at all, but not if they have different impedance. So no, system will not show or log any errors. But if you are unsure, i can try to check with OBD11 for any errors related to speakers, maybe tomorrow.

Tracking down ECU to different speakers sounds like a magic to me, as speakers have NOTHING to do with CAN bus, which is only common point of ECU and MIB.

Forget about Canton speakers. They will not bring any improvement, as they are mediocre at best. "Magic" of canton is additional power amp with DSP and Dolby Prologic.

If you are worried about warranty, leave it alone till car is under warranty.

But i don't think you should be...

I was told that the speakers are connected to the controller, and even to the engine controls. So if there is a problem with any of the controls, it will be traced back to the speakers not being factory. Tomorrow I will speak to one of the parts purchasing colleagues at the dealership. How could this be resolved. Anyway, I like the Canton. Our Superb has them and they sound pretty good, just as good as I need them to sound. But I'll try to get them to install what you recommended. However, if they only put factory parts in, then Canton is the only option.

[Felix2021]

No, speakers are connected only to headunit's power amp. Why would anyone connect speakers to ECU? Ridiculous.

If you would prefer Canton, you would have to get whole set, not only speakers. It will cost much, much more than Focal speakers, and i doubt it will sound better.

[zorglub]

Felix is right, there is no way for the ECU to know wich kind of speaker you have at the end of the sound system.

 

So i ll probably go in the same way, chagging speakers and probably adding DSP amp and subwoofer into my spare wheel

[Felix2021]

Start with speakers, it really makes huge difference.

At least i don't see any reason now to add external amp and DSP. For me it sounds very, very good with builtin amp and DSP.

Not saying though, i wouldn't like to hear Focal Utopia with good amp

[Marci1229]

3 hours ago, Felix2021 said:

No, speakers are connected only to headunit's power amp. Why would anyone connect speakers to ECU? Ridiculous.

If you would prefer Canton, you would have to get whole set, not only speakers. It will cost much, much more than Focal speakers, and i doubt it will sound better.

It is understood that the head unit is connected to the speakers and the head unit is also connected to the engine controller.

[PetrolDave]

1 minute ago, Marci1229 said:

...and the head unit is also connected to the engine controller.

The car is basically a computer network all controllers connect to a central point (the CAN Gateway) and there are several sub-networks (Powertrain, Comfort, etc.)

 

So you can say that every controller is (via the CAN Gateway) connected to every other controller) - however, that does not mean that the infotainment shares diagnostic data with the engine, because it quite simply doesn't. Physical connection is not the same as logical connection.

[Marci1229]

2 hours ago, Felix2021 said:

Start with speakers, it really makes huge difference.

At least i don't see any reason now to add external amp and DSP. For me it sounds very, very good with builtin amp and DSP.

Not saying though, i wouldn't like to hear Focal Utopia with good amp

I talked to one of the people and he said that unfortunately I can't install the speakers you recommended because it would void the warranty. I asked about the Canton, he said it could be done and might not even be out of warranty. However, it does raise some problems. I was told that the Canton subwoofer is connected to a backbone wire that is put in the car when you ask for a Canton system. The cost to install this cable is $2600. They said they could only replace the speakers with Canton. The cost of this is unknown at this time. This means that I either trust that the Canton will sound good without the subwoofer, or I wait until the warranty expires, which is 2 1/2 years.

[Marci1229]

9 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

The car is basically a computer network all controllers connect to a central point (the CAN Gateway) and there are several sub-networks (Powertrain, Comfort, etc.)

 

So you can say that every controller is (via the CAN Gateway) connected to every other controller) - however, that does not mean that the infotainment shares diagnostic data with the engine, because it quite simply doesn't. Physical connection is not the same as logical connection.

I understand that, but unfortunately they can now assume that the problem is caused by the 4 speakers. This is not about just an engine failure.

Edited 2 December, 2022 by Marci1229

[Felix2021]

8 minutes ago, Marci1229 said:

I understand that, but unfortunately they can now assume that the problem is caused by the 4 speakers.

No, they cannot. We're in EU, where they would have to prove that speakers caused ECU malfuntion. And they of course cannot prove it, because it's... not possible.

Anyway i am not trying to convince you. If you are afraid of losing warranty, than do not touch anything.

Replacing speakers to Canton ones makes completely no sense, it will not bring any improvement, ir it will be very little in the best case scenario.

To gain something you would have to go with full blown Cantont setup, and as you can see it's expensive to retrofit.

So my advise: either stop listening to your dealership and go with Focal, Eton or wahtever suits you, or just forget about this upgrade.

[PetrolDave]

12 minutes ago, Marci1229 said:

I understand that, but unfortunately they can now assume that the problem is caused by the 4 speakers.

Then, I'm sorry, but that is a total misunderstanding of how car electronic systems work - and to say it would invalidate the warranty on the whole car is wrong, the only item on which the warranty could be invalidated is the infotainment.

Edited 2 December, 2022 by PetrolDave

[Marci1229]

Thanks for all your help. For now I think I will not update anything and wait until the warranty expires. I'll listen to see how much it would cost to upgrade to a Canton (without a subwoofer). But I'm not going to go for it. Anyway, I will note that I have to use these speakers. Thanks again. Anyway, the Canton system is like this in an Octavia 2018: