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18” 8J on Octavia mk3?


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Hello!

I am looking for summer set of wheels for my mk3 Octavia. I that vrs models comes with 18” 7.5j but can I fit the superb wheels or passat? They are 8J and according to the wheel-size.com it won’t be any problem. The will will be 9mm closer to the suspension and stick out 3mm so almost no difference.

I believe both passat & superb wheels have 44 offset.

If it is possible, what tyres should I get for them? I thought 225/40R18 or 235/35r18?

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3 hours ago, TDIMachoMan said:

...235/35R18...

 

Don't fit 235/35R18 tyres.

 

It's such a rare size, that mytyres aren't listing a single tyre in that size.

 

It also has an outside diameter 2.4% smaller than the standard 225/40R18 tyre size.

 

It's even more prone to pothole damage than 225/40R18 due to less sidewall height.

 

The speedometer will massively over-read. At an indicated 70mph, your actual speed might only be around 65mph.

 

Outside diameter of tyres

225/40R18 637.2mm

235/35R18 621.7mm (2.4% smaller outside diameter compared to 225/40R18)

 

Sidewall height

225/40R18 90mm

235/35R18 82.25mm (8.6% less sidewall height compared to 225/40R18)

 

Edited by Carlston
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1 hour ago, Carlston said:

 

Don't fit 235/35R18 tyres.

 

It's such a rare size, that mytyres aren't listing a single tyre in that size.

 

It also has an outside diameter 2.4% smaller than the standard 225/40R18 tyre size.

 

It's even more prone to pothole damage than 225/40R18 due to less sidewall height.

 

The speedometer will massively under-read. At an indicated 70mph, your actual speed might be around 65mph.

 

Outside diameter of tyres

225/40R18 637.2mm

235/35R18 621.7mm (2.4% smaller outside diameter compared to 225/40R18)

 

Sidewall height

225/40R18 90mm

235/35R18 82.25mm (8.6% less sidewall height compared to 225/40R18)

 

Ok thanks!

so I should go with 225/40r18?

But can I fit them on my Octavia mk3 without any problems?

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33 minutes ago, TDIMachoMan said:

So I should go with 225/40R18?

But can I fit them on my Octavia MK3 without any problems?

 

If I wanted 18" rims on the Octavia MK3, I would probably go for the standard 7.5Jx17 ET51 5/112 57.1 rims but with slightly bigger 235/40R18 tyres. Perhaps the Gemini rims.

 

For me though, 225/45R17 on narrower 7J rims would be more sensible...especially when it comes to comfort and resistance to pothole damage. But 235/40R18 on Gemini rims would probably look a little better...if wide, low-profile tyres is your thing.

 

Here's an example of the difference in price of the 225/45R17 and 235/40R18 tyre sizes. The 225/45R17 is generally a considerably cheaper tyre size than 235/40R18.

 

Michelin Primacy 4+ 225/45R17 91W (Euro label C A 69dB)

https://www.camskill.co.uk/m54b0s16p209578/Michelin_Tyres_Car_Michelin_Primacy_4%2B_225_45_R17_91W_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_C_Wet_Grip%3A_A_NoiseClass%3A_B_Noise%3A_69dB

 

Michelin Primacy 4+ 235/40R18 91W (Euro label C A 69dB)

https://www.camskill.co.uk/m61b0s322p213489/Michelin_Tyres_Car_Michelin_Primacy_4%2B_235_40_R18_91W_RG_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_C_Wet_Grip%3A_A_NoiseClass%3A_B_Noise%3A_69dB

 

7.5Jx17 ET51 5/112 57.1 alloy rims GEMINI 5E0071498G FL8

Alu kolo Gemini 18" Octavia III

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/cs_CZ/alu-kolo-gemini-18-octavia-iii/p/5E0071498G+FL8

 

Edited by Carlston
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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the information.

I really don’t like how the original vrs wheels look. I drive a 2.0 TDI, I don’t know the trim, but very comfortable and well equipped. So I don’t want to create a nock off vRS.

I like how those wheels look :

 

 

IMG_3090.png
 

edit:

I am for as high profile as possible with 18” wheels.

I really want to keep as much comfort as possible with those superb wheels, if that is even possible. I know that superb comes with 235/45r18 on those wheels but I am not sure if that would fit in my wheel arches without problems? 

Edited by TDIMachoMan
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You might be able to use oversize 225/45R18 tyres that the Octavia MK4 uses, perhaps fitted to 7Jx18 ET45 5/112 57.1 rims from the Karoq. After all, the Octavia MK3 Scout uses 225/50R17 fitted to 7Jx17 ET45 5/112 57.1 alloy rims. However, as with all big changes in tyre size you would have to check that there isn't any rubbing...so purchasing one wheel and checking in all four positions on the car rather than purchasing all four wheels at once would reduce the financial lose if rubbing did occur.

 

7J rims are the narrowest you can fit 225/45 tyres to, so you get maximum rim protection from kerbing damage.

 

The below 17" rim looks like it's at least 2kg lighter than than 18" rim. Multiply that by 4 and the weight savings in unsprung weight are significant.

 

The below 16" alloy rim is even lighter than the 17" alloy rim, saving about 15.6kg compared to the 18" rim when you multiply the individual weight saving by four.

 

Some forged alloy rims (from various Audis) in the 7Jx16 ET45 5/112 57.1 specification weigh as little as 7.3kg each. The 19" Sirius alloy rim from the Superb MK3 weighs a whopping 14.6kg, so exactly twice the weight of that 7.3kg lightweight 16" Audi alloy rim. Some of these big alloy rims might look sporty, but that illusion will quickly disappear when you try to lift them.

 

7Jx16 ET45 5/112 57.1 steel rim (from Superb MK2, Yeti) (9.35kg)

ALCAR 9257

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rims/details?vehicleId=182363349315490928&rimCode=ALCAR9257

 

7Jx16 ET46 5/112 57.1 alloy rim (from Octavia MK4) (9.5kg)

Alu kolo Twister 16" Octavia IV

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/cs_CZ/alu-kolo-twister-16-octavia-iv/p/5E3071496A+8Z8

 

7Jx17 ET45 5/112 57.1 alloy rim (from Karoq) (same specification as Octavia MK3 Scout) (about 10.1kg to 10.9kg)

Alu kolo Ratikon 17" Karoq

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/cs_CZ/alu-kolo-ratikon-17-karoq/p/57A071497C+8Z8

 

7Jx18 ET45 5/112 57.1 alloy rim (from Karoq) (about 12.9kg)

Aluminum wheel Trinity 18" Karoq

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/cs_CZ/alu-kolo-trinity-18-karoq/p/57A071498++8Z8

 

Outside diameter of tyres

225/45R17 634.3mm

225/55R16 653.9mm (3.1% bigger outside diameter compared to 225/45R17)

225/50R17 656.8mm (3.5% bigger outside diameter compared to 225/45R17)

225/45R18 659.7mm (4.0% bigger outside diameter compared to 225/45R17)

 

Notice in the chart below, that the sidewalls on 225/55R16 and 225/50R17 tyres fitted to 7J rims are much wider than the sidewalls on a 225/45R18 tyre fitted to a 7J rim. This results in the 225/55R16 and 225/50R17 tyres offering much better rim protection from kerbing damage than the 225/45R18 tyre. 

 

Actual inflated width of tyres fitted to 7J rim

225/55R16 233mm

225/50R17 233mm

225/45R18 219mm

 

Edited by Carlston
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Carlston said:

You might be able to use oversize 225/45R18 tyres that the Octavia MK4 uses, perhaps fitted to 7Jx18 ET45 5/112 57.1 rims from the Karoq. After all, the Octavia MK3 Scout uses 225/50R17 fitted to 7Jx17 ET45 5/112 57.1 alloy rims. However, as with all big changes in tyre size you would have to check that there isn't any rubbing...so purchasing one wheel and checking in all four positions on the car rather as this would reduce the financial lose if rubbing did occur.

 

7J rims are the narrowest you can fit 225/45 tyres to, so you get maximum rim protection (from kerbing damage).

 

The below 17" rim looks like it's at least 2kg lighter than than 18" rim. Multiply that by 4 and the weight savings in unsprung weight are significant.

 

The below 16" alloy rim is even lighter than the 17" alloy rim, saving about 15.6kg compared to the 18" rim when you multiply the individual weight saving by four.

 

Some forged alloy rims (from various Audis) in the 7Jx16 ET45 5/112 57.1 specification weight as little as 7.3kg each.

 

7Jx16 ET45 5/112 57.1 steel rim (from Superb MK2, Yeti) (9.35kg)

ALCAR 9257

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rims/details?vehicleId=182363349315490928&rimCode=ALCAR9257

 

7Jx16 ET46 5/112 57.1 alloy rim (from Octavia MK4) (9.5kg)

Alu kolo Twister 16" Octavia IV

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/cs_CZ/alu-kolo-twister-16-octavia-iv/p/5E3071496A+8Z8

 

7Jx17 ET45 5/112 57.1 alloy rim (from Karoq) (same specification as Octavia MK3 Scout) (about 10.1kg to 10.9kg)

Alu kolo Ratikon 17" Karoq

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/cs_CZ/alu-kolo-ratikon-17-karoq/p/57A071497C+8Z8

 

7Jx18 ET45 5/112 57.1 alloy rim (from Karoq) (about 12.9kg)

Aluminum wheel Trinity 18" Karoq

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/cs_CZ/alu-kolo-trinity-18-karoq/p/57A071498++8Z8

 

Outside diameter of tyres

225/45R17 634.3mm

225/55R16 653.9mm (3.1% bigger outside diameter compared to 225/45R17)

225/50R17 656.8mm (3.5% bigger outside diameter compared to 225/45R17)

225/45R18 659.7mm (4.0% bigger outside diameter compared to 225/45R17)

 

Notice in the chart below, that the sidewalls on a 225/50R17 tyre fitted to a 7J rim are much wider than the sidewalls on a 225/45R18 tyre fitted to a 7J rim. This results in the 225/50R17 tyre offering much better protection to its rim from kerbing damage than the 225/45R18 tyre. 

 

Actual inflated width of tyres fitted to 7J rim

225/55R16 233mm

225/50R17 233mm

225/45R18 219mm

 

Wow thanks! You really know this stuff.

i am looking for curb rash wheels that I can fix and use on my Octavia. It is really easy to find passat/ superb wheels that are 18 8J and they cost around 90€ piece. 
that is the main reason why I want to put superb turbine wheels on my mk3 facelift Octavia. But thanks for help I know now that they will fit together with 225/40r18

 before

IMG_3101.jpeg

Edited by TDIMachoMan
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Sorry just had to smile at the irony, handle of MachoMan and fitting high heels wheels to the car.  Don't take this seriously, it's your car you do as you please, just made me smile.  

☺️

 

I'm an old-fart so I'd be going for 16" wheels and higher (they're still low profile) tyres for more comfort (possibly pick up feel) and definitely steel wheels for a diesel - but it'd be a strange world if we were all the same, just put elsewhere 70 used to be low profile. ☺️

 

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59 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Sorry just had to smile at the irony, handle of MachoMan and fitting high heels wheels to the car.  Don't take this seriously, it's your car you do as you please, just made me smile.  

☺️

 

I'm an old-fart so I'd be going for 16" wheels and higher (they're still low profile) tyres for more comfort (possibly pick up feel) and definitely steel wheels for a diesel - but it'd be a strange world if we were all the same, just put elsewhere 70 used to be low profile. ☺️

 

So funny how you spend your time and energy typing totally unnecessary and unhelpful comment :D

just to say how you are old fashioned and laugh at others who just asked community for advice. Have a nice day mister 

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Sorry, mate, didn't think you'd be so thin skinned using such a handle I thought you'd have more self awareness, irony, humour.

 

You'll note Carlston has also given you info and hints on 16" wheels.  On the forum(s) you'll find I do give lots of advice and next paragraph some for you, if you want it, you may not and that's fair enough but please don't take offence (I can't know what you know or not on a subject) - but if you want take the gate and whole garden too, if you want to, and you can dress yourself and your car however you want I don't mind.  Being old does mean I've driven a few cars over the decades so at least have some experience as well as been through (and seen return) loads of fashions, though the fashion for oversized wheels and tyres has continued for a few decades now, and I've no idea of male or female dressing fashions. 😄

 

Tyres are a very important and complex component on the car, over one or two sizes their grip and handling has less to do with their size and much more to do with their design, build, compounds, make and model,  Sizes are nominal so all comparisons about sizes are slightly general, some tyres are wider than others of the same size and some will fit the wheel differently to another of the same size.  Comparisons sites and calculators only take you so far and should be used as a general guide and all sources of information generally have errors and omissions including manufacturers and bloke on the internet like me and others so always check any information if possible with one or two other reliable sources.

 

Written by a sometimes very macho man but I'm glad to say generally I'm not because of all the negatives it brings with it - and low heels wearer even tho' Im short. 😄

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, nta16 said:

Sorry, mate, didn't think you'd be so thin skinned using such a handle I thought you'd have more self awareness, irony, humour.

 

You'll note Carlston has also given you info and hints on 16" wheels.  On the forum(s) you'll find I do give lots of advice and next paragraph some for you, if you want it, you may not and that's fair enough but please don't take offence (I can't know what you know or not on a subject) - but if you want take the gate and whole garden too, if you want to, and you can dress yourself and your car however you want I don't mind.  Being old does mean I've driven a few cars over the decades so at least have some experience as well as been through (and seen return) loads of fashions, though the fashion for oversized wheels and tyres has continued for a few decades now, and I've no idea of male or female dressing fashions. 😄

 

Tyres are a very important and complex component on the car, over one or two sizes their grip and handling has less to do with their size and much more to do with their design, build, compounds, make and model,  Sizes are nominal so all comparisons about sizes are slightly general, some tyres are wider than others of the same size and some will fit the wheel differently to another of the same size.  Comparisons sites and calculators only take you so far and should be used as a general guide and all sources of information generally have errors and omissions including manufacturers and bloke on the internet like me and others so always check any information if possible with one or two other reliable sources.

 

Written by a sometimes very macho man but I'm glad to say generally I'm not because of all the negatives it brings with it - and low heels wearer even tho' Im short. 😄

 

See this was very helpful and good comment and I honestly appreciate that.
I didnt know almost anything about what you wrote in your last comment. It was truly well written and explained.

I have read some of your comments and they were helpful. It did not offend me, but from my point of view it looked like you came and wrote a comment how you are right and know what’s the best and how someone else who just asks questions is wrong and silly :D 

Ye right, “macho man” is just a satire on society.

 

I don’t consider 18” big since Skoda sells xtreme 19”. The wheel arches are big and I currently have 17” and it feels like I could go 1 inch up just to get that sporty look on the outside. The thing was I don’t really like the vRS ones, but love the Superb 18” they are classy and sporty at the same time. 
I will check how much clearance I have when I put the summer 17” then decide if I will get a set of 18” and refurbish them. Thanks again for giving me advice

 

edit:

I really like the karoq ones that @Carlston suggested above. They remind me of the Passats 18” which I also like. But I can’t find any used ones for sale at the moment 😞

Edited by TDIMachoMan
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2 hours ago, TDIMachoMan said:

but from my point of view it looked like you came and wrote a comment how you are right and know what’s the best and how someone else who just asks questions is wrong and silly :D

Yeah sorry about that I can see it, considered it but still went with it given the handle which I thought/hoped was ironic, I put my hands up it was a mistake which I couldn't edit with a strike-thorough on text left to show the mistake.  Which is another point, i make lots of mistakes but no longer worry about it now given how forums go.  At one time I used to start all my posts with I'm not a mechanic or expert in anything on every post but that annoyed some and It was suggested that it wasn't needed on these forums.  I do sometimes struggle with words, spellings and meanings so throw in non-specific words that annoy the more technical but as long as most get the jist of what I mean I don't worry.

 

 

2 hours ago, TDIMachoMan said:

I don’t consider 18” big since Skoda sells xtreme 19”. The wheel arches are big and I currently have 17” and it feels like I could go 1 inch up just to get that sporty look on the outside.

  Yeah that fine but also others reduce the wheel size, increasing the size of the sidewall because of our 3rd-world roads and for more comfort.  Buying your bigger wheels s/h gives you more scope perhaps to recover some of the cost by selling back o IF you find the same as some others - which of course you might not and like the wheels and tyres, and the combination of which tyres to wheels, and the way they ride, only you can know that for yourself.

 

 

2 hours ago, TDIMachoMan said:

I didnt know almost anything about what you wrote in your last comment.

 There's lots of info on this forum and on the site generally and from those that the the subject and express it a lot better than me.  You can always ask questions but it's difficult to ask about you're not aware of or not fully aware of so I tend to give wider answers than the quick specific answers as I take it if anyone just wants the quick short answer they won't bother with what I put which is far enough and they may weell already know what I've added and more and better about it but often that can't be known and I consider the very many viewers only as well as the posters.

 

I unusually suggest with many things that the poster also look at the forum for their particular model as other owners may have already taken the same route or know about it if questions are posted on that forum.

 

Good luck, whatever you decide and do a report back after an appropriate time of use can help others looking at the same sort of thing.

 

Cheers. 

 

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53 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Yeah sorry about that I can see it, considered it but still went with it given the handle which I thought/hoped was ironic, I put my hands up it was a mistake which I couldn't edit with a strike-thorough on text left to show the mistake.  Which is another point, i make lots of mistakes but no longer worry about it now given how forums go.  At one time I used to start all my posts with I'm not a mechanic or expert in anything on every post but that annoyed some and It was suggested that it wasn't needed on these forums.  I do sometimes struggle with words, spellings and meanings so throw in non-specific words that annoy the more technical but as long as most get the jist of what I mean I don't worry.

 

 

  Yeah that fine but also others reduce the wheel size, increasing the size of the sidewall because of our 3rd-world roads and for more comfort.  Buying your bigger wheels s/h gives you more scope perhaps to recover some of the cost by selling back o IF you find the same as some others - which of course you might not and like the wheels and tyres, and the combination of which tyres to wheels, and the way they ride, only you can know that for yourself.

 

 

 There's lots of info on this forum and on the site generally and from those that the the subject and express it a lot better than me.  You can always ask questions but it's difficult to ask about you're not aware of or not fully aware of so I tend to give wider answers than the quick specific answers as I take it if anyone just wants the quick short answer they won't bother with what I put which is far enough and they may weell already know what I've added and more and better about it but often that can't be known and I consider the very many viewers only as well as the posters.

 

I unusually suggest with many things that the poster also look at the forum for their particular model as other owners may have already taken the same route or know about it if questions are posted on that forum.

 

Good luck, whatever you decide and do a report back after an appropriate time of use can help others looking at the same sort of thing.

 

Cheers. 

 

I just love how we went from a “fight”

back to really good and thoughtful conversation haha.

I am sorry how I replied before, but it just annoyed med how you said it. I understand that you didn’t have any ill intentions or anything else.

You have great knowledge and you are very smart in explaining and sharing your thoughts and experiences.

I will update this thread as soon I have more updates hahaha! Right now it is cold and snowy in Sweden. Therefore I don’t even think about changing my wheels yet. Somewhere in April I might have some updates on how much room there is in arches and will I even get a new set of wheels.

 

cheers 

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No worries, you replied honestly, I was in the wrong.

 

And there's no problem with disagreeing, debating, arguing or agreeing to disagree, all best dome without falling out or at least being able to move on from it and perhaps being able to accept or perhaps agree something else after, and personally I think if there can be a bit of good humour either way or better still both ways it's some positive at least.

 

I have plenty of car experiences and a little knowledge, much of it often forgotten or I mix up and I wish I could be smart at explaining most times I'm not but I am working at a level just above someone new to things so can often understand what might not be known and cover things that others who know more might miss or have forgotten about because it's so obvious to them.  Even then i sometimes forget my own basic advices and someone adds what i've missed on the basics.

 

My hobbyhorse is the car's (nominal) 12v battery and how important it is for the battery not to be allowed to get into a low or very low state of charge particularly on a modern car and with stop/start and that preventative use of an appropriate battery charger when required will help the expensive battery to a longer and better performing life and help prevent all sorts of unexpected warning lights and messages and car issues even if the car starts and the lights seem bright enough.  A good state of charge also helps with diagnostics off starting or electrical issues whereas a low state of charge could hinder or even prevent proper diagnosis.

 

Oh, and the other thing I bang on about is that it's not illegal in anyway for men to read instructions before use, during use and as help with issues, in particular the Owner's Manual, reading it can help prevent having to go to a mechanic or garage for some car issues, and prevent issues.

 

That's me totally depleted of modern car knowledge   .   .   .   opinions, I'm endless, my mate said everyone's entitled to my opinion - whether they want it or not. 😄

 

Cheers.

 

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4 hours ago, nta16 said:

 


Oh, and the other thing I bang on about is that it's not illegal in anyway for men to read instructions before use, during use and as help with issues, in particular the Owner's Manual, reading it can help prevent having to go to a mechanic or garage for some car issues, and prevent issues.

 

That's me totally depleted of modern car knowledge   .   .   .   opinions, I'm endless, my mate said everyone's entitled to my opinion - whether they want it or not. 😄

 

Cheers.

 

I work as a mechanic on new cars that comes in Sweden. Mostly VAG, recently we had the new Amarok which is more ford than anything else….

you have to see the new “manuals” or “instruction book” for the vehicles 2024-2025.

Let me tell you, there is NONE. On most cars we have to download the digital instruction manual to the cars infotainment. This is the stupidest thing I have ever seen in my life. You will get some short booklet that shows how you should check if the car is safe for driving and working as it should. There is nothing about what oil, how much, where is filter located, nothing about the cams, etc.. In order to get more information you have to use stupid animated manual from the infotainment system.

there are some exceptions to this stupidity. Cars such as Skoda, Caddy, Golf, Transporter, Crafter, some Audis have the old fashioned user manual (thick book)

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If you are still mulling wheels, this is the wheels brochure from 2022, which has pictures and all the offsets and tyre sizes

 

Note mk3 is shown as Roman III, and mk 4 as Roman IV (don't confuse with hybrid iv) .  If anyone has a link to a 2024 brochure can they please post it

 

https://www.skoda.co.uk/_doc/639a0118-4da5-446b-a786-86e1f789b57b

 

EDIT, think this is current brochure

 

https://www.skoda-auto.com/_doc/a1a05a53-26b1-4278-9251-515531f22ecb
 

 

Edited by SurreyJohn
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10 hours ago, nta16 said:

My hobbyhorse is the car's (nominal) 12v battery

 

Oh, and the other thing I bang on about is that it's not illegal in anyway for men to read instructions before use,

 

What a revelation, - who would have known!

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14 hours ago, TDIMachoMan said:

I work as a mechanic on new cars that comes in Sweden. Mostly VAG, recently we had the new Amarok which is more ford than anything else….

you have to see the new “manuals” or “instruction book” for the vehicles 2024-2025.

Let me tell you, there is NONE. On most cars we have to download the digital instruction manual to the cars infotainment. This is the stupidest thing I have ever seen in my life. You will get some short booklet that shows how you should check if the car is safe for driving and working as it should. There is nothing about what oil, how much, where is filter located, nothing about the cams, etc.. In order to get more information you have to use stupid animated manual from the infotainment system.

there are some exceptions to this stupidity. Cars such as Skoda, Caddy, Golf, Transporter, Crafter, some Audis have the old fashioned user manual (thick book)

Talk about turnaround - Volvo and SAAB when they actually truly  used to design and build them were very good cars a league above the likes of VAG products how sad you have to put up with their inferior products in your country in place of your previously own products.  Hopefully you might be too young to know the previous large difference in design  and build quality between them. to be too disheartened by the modern offerings.

 

The Skoda manuals on their website for manuals shows they have gone from downloadable pdfs of the original paper printed copies to digital versions that tell you even less than the previous versions and VW hold back information other manufacturers freely give like capacities and oil mutigrades to instead insist on their number systems which they (like other) change overtime as things progress and VW change specifications (a cynic might suggest for previous mistakes).  Digital versions of the printed paper manuals do have some advantages and some disadvantages and it is often best to have copies of digital files (such as a paper printed book that does not rely on battery power and can be easily viewed in daylight and on sunny days).

 

VWSkoda Owner's Manuals website with free downloadable pdf versions of printed paper version of the Owner's Manual for earlier cars (when the website is working).  - https://manual.skoda-auto.com/004/en-com/Models

 

Modern public car owners want information immediately when they want it and not a second before so Google for video for things like how find the fuel filling flap so things like preparation and looking in an index or at paper printed pages is far too slow and requires a small amount of thought which they do not have the time for.  For many reasons it is to the car manufacturers advantage that the customers do only the driving and less and less of that.  Many years back the set up of the public buying and owning a car was outdated and not the best business model for car manufacturers but that is a whole new other topic   .   .   .   🙃

 

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