On 17/05/2024 at 17:28, JFrankMiller said:

I'm new to this DSG malarkey, but I like it.

 

My question is quite simple. If I were to drive my Fabia to a car park, come to a halt, then pull on the handbrake, and take my foot off the brake, and sit there listening to the stereo for a couple of hours, would the clutch eventually become ruined due to sitting on the bite-point for two hours?

 

I'm quite mechanically sympathetic and I like to know such things.

It depends.

You can test whether you need to this, easily enough.

If you set up the conditions with the car in "Drive" mode, which you imply but do not specifically state in your original post, then move the selector from D to N, see if the car relaxes back off the biting point.

If it does, then the answer is yes.

If it doesn't, it would seem the answer is no.

 

Personally, I put my DSG into neutral whenever I come to a stop, or am coming to a stop.

I don't even think about it now, as it's just natural for me to do this.

56 minutes ago, EnterName said:

It depends.

You can test whether you need to this, easily enough.

If you set up the conditions with the car in "Drive" mode, which you imply but do not specifically state in your original post, then move the selector from D to N, see if the car relaxes back off the biting point.

If it does, then the answer is yes.

If it doesn't, it would seem the answer is no.

 

Personally, I put my DSG into neutral whenever I come to a stop, or am coming to a stop.

I don't even think about it now, as it's just natural for me to do this.

I only put my DSG in Neutral when parking

@Winston_Woof Is that it parked and parking brake on, do you not select P?  Trusting to the Parking Brake.

That has been the issue posted about on here before,  brakes cooling and cars running away.  But then that can be a manual or a DSG.

 

They can start in P or N.  Below -8*oC you can not start them in N. 

17 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@Winston_Woof Is that it parked and parking brake on, do you not select P?  Trusting to the Parking Brake.

That has been the issue posted about on here before,  brakes cooling and cars running away.  But then that can be a manual or a DSG.

 

They can start in P or N.  Below -8*oC you can not start them in N. 

And after putting it in neutral it goes into P lol

Why is it in N or do you mean it goes through N and R to P.?

Or are you in N, then engine off and to P.    Each to their on.

 

I mostly reverse park so once into the space it is shifter to P with foot on brake, and e-brake on or Parking / Hand brake. 

2 hours ago, EnterName said:

It depends.

You can test whether you need to this, easily enough.

If you set up the conditions with the car in "Drive" mode, which you imply but do not specifically state in your original post, then move the selector from D to N, see if the car relaxes back off the biting point.

If it does, then the answer is yes.

If it doesn't, it would seem the answer is no.

 

Personally, I put my DSG into neutral whenever I come to a stop, or am coming to a stop.

I don't even think about it now, as it's just natural for me to do this.

 

On a flat road in a DSG if in D and you take your foot off the brake it will move forwards, gear 1 will be selected and pressure will increase in anticipation of you about to accelerate. You would effectively be riding the clutch. Foot on the brake the system is being told you don't want to move, gear 1 is selected but no torque will be applied to the clutch.

 

I have posted a video on a recent thread about this somewhere.

 

The leaving the car parked but not in P, my car goes mad with warnings if i open the door not in P. (Ford)

 

The Mercedes sprinter DCT i drive won't let the Key out of the ignition unless the vehicles in P

3 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Why is it in N or do you mean it goes through N and R to P.?

Or are you in N, then engine off and to P.    Each to their on.

 

I mostly reverse park so once into the space it is shifter to P with foot on brake, and e-brake on or Parking / Hand brake. 

Don’t over analyse lol

 

long and short is I’m not in the habit of using Neutral

Apologies for those seeing it before but it may help here

 

 

Same but different.   That being a Wet Clutch DSG compared to twin dry clutch DQ200 DSG,s.  But no issue with a DQ200 in D or S and foot on brake pedal and engine still running, but not for long.

 

RPM higher sitting in S than sitting in D with foot on brake pedal. 

Edited 19 May, 20242 yr by Ootohere

@Stonekeeper   Having one foot only and having done Hill Climbs and Sprints and 1/8 th and 1/4 miles with Twinchargers with a DQ200 DSG i hold the car on the parking / hand brake (not e-brake)  then floor it in D or S.  

Not held in D or S and with the foot brake as even if you have 2 feet and hold on the foot brake and floor the accelerator with the right foot you get a delay.

 

Fastest is in Manual 1st, hand brake to put off.  Floor it and do not change gear.  Force the DSG to change up, 2nd, 3rd to 4,th then do a shift across to D and let the box to the upshifts.

Confirmed fastest with V-Box, Draggy and Timing slips.

 

Wet Clutch, Launch Controls, e-brake cars different though. 

25 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Same but different.   That being a Wet Clutch DSG compared to twin dry clutch DQ200 DSG,s.  But no issue with a DQ200 in D or S and foot on brake pedal and engine still running, but not for long.

 

RPM higher sitting in S than sitting in D with foot on brake pedal. 

 

 

I think the volkswagen R is a DQ381 wet clutch, so the Clutch slipping action is not as grave as doing it with the dry clutch version.

 

When coming to stop in my car if i am stopping for seconds i will just use the footbrake firmly applied. If i think it will be a minute or longer i go for handbrake and N

 

In traffic Queuing i judge the whole queue movement not just the one in front. If they don't move at least car length at a time i will delay following until they do. Avoiding not fully engaging the clutch going forwards.

 

The DSG and DCT semi autonomous gearboxes get most of their bad press from Americans. A country that has used automatics by default for a long time, using a stick shift is unusual.

 

They are used to Torque converter automatics and expected to treat this modern tech the same way.  For the most part you can but there are times when circumstance demands driver interaction.

The DSG get the bad press for those that know about the bad press, as the press were to light on VW over the Global Recall of DQ200 DSG,s in 2012.

 

That was World wide / Global excluding Europe because VW tell Germany to tell the EU what is an issue.

 

So the Synthetic Oil had to be changed for Mineral. In New Zealand just a Service Campaign but each car got a new MCU.

In China and elsewhere in Asia they got a 10 year / 100,000 warranty extension.

 

In Europe it was 2014 before a Service Campaign was started.  In Australia the recall from 2012 has been repeated 3 times now.

So that was first 2009-2012 DQ200,s. 

Then the Service Campaign 2017 on 2013-2015 ones. Software Update.  & the TPI,s Clutch and Software Updates. Right up to 2018.

Then still some issues since.

 

Now in North America, Australia and other world regions you can have a 1.4 TSI with an 8 speed automatic.

 

DQ250 6 speed DSG pretty much bullet proof compared to a DQ200 or a DQ380 / 381.

 

Latest,

the DQ381 DSG premature failures, MCU leaks etc.   Vorsprung Durch Technik. 

   Ssshhhh,  They have short memories and it is only people with faults that go to forums.    VW Group wish. 

Edited 19 May, 20242 yr by Ootohere

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

Same but different.   That being a Wet Clutch DSG compared to twin dry clutch DQ200 DSG,s.  But no issue with a DQ200 in D or S and foot on brake pedal and engine still running, but not for long.

 

RPM higher sitting in S than sitting in D with foot on brake pedal. 

 

Does my Fabia 2022 plate have a DQ200 DSG? Is this the newer type?

You have a DQ200 7 speed Twin Dry Clutch DSG and by 2022 Skoda should have them as good as they can be.

It is Skoda that have been building them in Europe for the VW Group since 2015. 

(They were building some for some of the 48 applications before then.)

 

No servicing of it required.  Not at 4 years or 40,000 miles if someone at a dealership says they need that. 

Edited 19 May, 20242 yr by Ootohere

1 minute ago, Ootohere said:

You have a DQ200 7 speed Twin Dry Clutch DSG and by 2022 Skoda should have them as good as they can be.

It is Skoda that have been building them in Europe for the VW Group since 2015. 

 

No servicing of it required.  Not at 4 years or 40,000 miles if someone at a dealership says they need that. 

 

That's great to know. I was going to go hunting around on the forum for servicing schedules etc., but I don't need to now. 🙂

It's handy to know for general knowledge about the car, too.

 

My car was low mileage when I picked it up (7.5k) , so it would have been a concern if you hadn't enlightened me. Cheers.

I take it that the maximum torque rating of 250Nm on the DQ200 isn't the same as engine torque output? Because the 1.5 L 150PS variant would be pushing the allowed torque.

 

Is it a different thing for engine output torque rating versus torque on the gearbox output?

25 minutes ago, JFrankMiller said:

I take it that the maximum torque rating of 250Nm on the DQ200 isn't the same as engine torque output? Because the 1.5 L 150PS variant would be pushing the allowed torque.

 

Is it a different thing for engine output torque rating versus torque on the gearbox output?

 

I believe that is exactly the point, Small engines with lower torque ratings get Dry Bigger Torque ratings need Wet

 

What is your expected torque from the 1.5 l 150ps i see it as spot on 250nm

 

2  litre diesels hit 340nm hence the popularity Towing.

13 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

I believe that is exactly the point, Small engines with lower torque ratings get Dry Bigger Torque ratings need Wet

 

What is your expected torque from the 1.5 l 150ps i see it as spot on 250nm

 

2  litre diesels hit 340nm hence the popularity Towing.

 

Ah, right. Fair enough. I just checked on Parkers and noticed that the 1.5 was the same as maximum gearbox torque and I expected it to be able to handle a bit more than is available. A bit like how bridges are normally rated to carry more weight than whatever is stated. That's all. Equal is fine.

3 minutes ago, JFrankMiller said:

 

Ah, right. Fair enough. I just checked on Parkers and noticed that the 1.5 was the same as maximum gearbox torque and I expected it to be able to handle a bit more than is available. A bit like how bridges are normally rated to carry more weight than whatever is stated. That's all. Equal is fine.

 

 

I would expect so, i wouldn't expect the car to be driven at max Torque all the time.

 

Maybe time will tell when the ones that fail are analyzed by how they were driven

Yeah. Agreed. Max torque probably only occurs for a brief moment, at a certain point in the rev range. 

1 hour ago, JFrankMiller said:

 

Ah, right. Fair enough. I just checked on Parkers and noticed that the 1.5 was the same as maximum gearbox torque and I expected it to be able to handle a bit more than is available. A bit like how bridges are normally rated to carry more weight than whatever is stated. That's all. Equal is fine.

 

 

Rather than VAG giving a "Maximum" rating for the gearbox they give a suitability rating.

 

DQ200 is suitable  for engines upto  250NM.  So suitable for 1.5TSI, 1.6TDi and some down rated 2.0 diesels which all have 250NM outputs.

 

What the gearbox is actually tested to we don't know, VAG don't publish their safety margin data.

Edited 19 May, 20242 yr by logiclee

I am not the only member on here that have run 1.4 TSI Twinchargers with a DQ200 with stage 1 or stage 2 remaps and instead of 188 bhp /250 Nm torque had 210 + bhp and 310 Nm and more. 

I have also run stage 2 with uprated clutches and software. 

 

After the 1.4 TSI Twincharger Polo GTI and DQ200 came the 1.8 TSI with 292 ps and 250Nm with the DSG and the Manual had 192 ps and 320 Nm.

They were the same 0-62 mph.  

The figures you got when dynoed and running 99 ron min Super Unleaded were the Min  not the Max. 

Blimey, I thought driving autos was supposed to be easy! I doubt that drivers of most autos (and I won't be sexist) would ever put their car into neutral in traffic but would just stop in Drive and let Autohold do it's thing or just hold it on the footbrake.

 

I use Manual mode for various reasons quite a lot but my wife refuses point blank to use it.

Edited 19 May, 20242 yr by VAGCF

They are dead easy just 2 pedals.

It is just some remember to not sit with brake lights to the annoyance of those behind for extended periods.

A thing in Britain really as is how the highway code is or some were taught to behave. 

 

Plenty could not care less about lights or others and have no idea even if their fog light is left on. 

They are dead easy to drive in some ways but you have to put some effort in if you want to get the best out of them, well you do if you have any mechanical sympathy or consider yourself to  be a good driver.

 

My first "auto" was a 2008 Passat estate 2.0 Tdi and having plenty of torque it was fine being left in Drive for most of the time and the only time I used Manual was towing my trailer in hilly areas.

 

This was followed by an Audi A6 Avant with CVT. Great car with lovely smooth transmission but I was never happy with the disconnect of engine speed to road speed and due to lack of use (another story) I changed it at one year old for a manual TT.

 

Next auto was the first XC40 which is the point of this post. It had an 8 speed torque converter which was fine on the relatively flat roads around where I live but further afield on hilly winding roads it was a bit slow changing down and was in danger of lugging and usually revving lower than if I'd been driving a manual so I'd often use the paddles or Manual mode. I can better judge the road ahead than the car, well it can't (!), though I believe that some cars like BMW use GPS data to select gears?

 

Current XC40 has a 7 speed DSG/DCT box and is better because of the help of the electric shove from the starter/generater but I use Manual mode quite a lot to limit the engine stopping due to the stop/start, which can't be turned off and sometimes when climbing hills and overtaking. I never use kickdown as I think it is too abrupt.

 

On another note we had a Kodiaq for 4 weeks when away in NZ recently. Fine most of the time but when climbing steep hills it would hang onto gears for far too long. I just had to knock it into Manual and take over the gears. Autos can be good and easy to drive but they aren't clever enough.

Edited 19 May, 20242 yr by VAGCF